Can we stay competitive in the NIL era?

SOWEGA Jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,111
You are predicating this opinion on the faulty assumption that the NIL money will be run like a business by business minded people. If the money were coming from corporate sponsors, then yes, the busts would eventually stem the flow of stupid money.

At issue is the shell corporations funded by fanatics (fans) of factory schools that already funnel stupid money into the programs. It will continue as long as fans with money exist. People spend beyond their means as long as they believe there is a big payoff around the corner. That's why the lottery and casinos are so addictive.
I agree that they will continue to spend. I just don’t think it will work the way they think. If professional sports organizations bust more than boom these yahoos trying to find a stud among thousands of high school players when signing classes are 20-25 per year then I say good luck with that. They’ll lose big money year after year. And with the premier positions like QB and RB they’ll spend money only to have the guy transfer like the first million dollar baby Ewers did. That OSU money was a total waste. Look back at the QB’s that UGA had transfer. Eason and Fields were the top QB‘s in their classes so UGA would have thrown millions at them today. And they both left due to PT. And was the money dictates playing time (which it will) then the coaches will revolt. I’m going to enjoy watching all of it implode.
 

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,121
Location
Augusta, Georgia
I agree that they will continue to spend. I just don’t think it will work the way they think. If professional sports organizations bust more than boom these yahoos trying to find a stud among thousands of high school players when signing classes are 20-25 per year then I say good luck with that. They’ll lose big money year after year. And with the premier positions like QB and RB they’ll spend money only to have the guy transfer like the first million dollar baby Ewers did. That OSU money was a total waste. Look back at the QB’s that UGA had transfer. Eason and Fields were the top QB‘s in their classes so UGA would have thrown millions at them today. And they both left due to PT. And was the money dictates playing time (which it will) then the coaches will revolt. I’m going to enjoy watching all of it implode.

Do you know why poor people continue to throw good money away at lottery tickets?

Every now and then someone hits it big. The factories and their mega donors were already spending profligately on "recruiting." Now they're just doing it out in the open...
 

Richard7125

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
466
Do you know why poor people continue to throw good money away at lottery tickets?

Every now and then someone hits it big. The factories and their mega donors were already spending profligately on "recruiting." Now they're just doing it out in the open...
yeah, this is my take too. The factories were already spending money. It may not have been to the extent NIL money will rise to, but my guess is that was more to keep things under the radar versus not having enough money.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,044
I agree that they will continue to spend. I just don’t think it will work the way they think. If professional sports organizations bust more than boom these yahoos trying to find a stud among thousands of high school players when signing classes are 20-25 per year then I say good luck with that. They’ll lose big money year after year. And with the premier positions like QB and RB they’ll spend money only to have the guy transfer like the first million dollar baby Ewers did. That OSU money was a total waste. Look back at the QB’s that UGA had transfer. Eason and Fields were the top QB‘s in their classes so UGA would have thrown millions at them today. And they both left due to PT. And was the money dictates playing time (which it will) then the coaches will revolt. I’m going to enjoy watching all of it implode.
Some people spend a lot of money on engine and suspension modifications for cars. The vast majority of those are not going to get an economic benefit from it. Most of them won't even be able to consistently win street races. I know of people who don't have a lot of money who spend tens to hundreds of thousands on trucks for mud competitions. The vast majority of them will never get close to even breaking even. Just like sports fans who you say will "lose big money year after year", there is more involved than any economic benefit or even actually winning a championship.

Back to the purpose of the thread. If you drive a stock Toyota Camry, your chance of winning even one street race is very small if you are competing against heavily modded GT-Rs.
 

TooTall

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,352
Location
Vidalia
Where NIL problem lies is with nonprofits like THE Foundation that Ohio St is starting later this month. It is to funnel NIL money to OSU football and men's basketball players ONLY for "charitable work". It is not university run so Title 9 isn't an issue. But it will be brought up as such. The NCAA stepped in it by allowing it to go forward without any framework on how to ensure "rules" are followed. California gave hem plenty of heads up but the NCAA refused to acknowledge it and get ahead of it. So here we are.
 

RamblinRed

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
5,901
Written with UGA in mind but still a good overview.


“We had a little dinner in Athens, and oh my God, I’m handing these 19-to 22-year-olds checks for $28,000,” said Murray, the former Georgia Bulldogs quarterback who remains the SEC career leader in passing yards. “I was lucky to have a few hundred bucks in my bank account (during college).”

Eleven members of Georgia’s 2021 national championship football team reacted with “big eyes,” Murray said, when they received the checks last month — their shares from the early profits of a new venture launched by Murray and several other former UGA players turned marketing entrepreneurs.

“That’s why it’s the ‘Wild Wild West,’” Murray said. “Because it’s not uniform across the country. … Certain states are allowing more involvement for the universities.”

The infancy of college sports’ NIL era has brought upheaval in unforeseen and hectic ways.

“I think the thing that’s been surprising is the lack of national regulation,” said Chase Garrett, founder and CEO of Denver-based Icon Source, a marketplace that connects brands with athletes. “Without that (regulation), you’re going to see a lot of really ambitious groups want to maximize what’s available and what’s legal. Right now, there are a lot of things that are not breaking the rules that can give certain groups an advantage.

In some cases, the line has become blurred between long-overdue NIL rights and the NCAA’s still-on-the-books bylaws against pay-for-play and recruiting inducements.

“There’s serious concern about where NIL has progressed from what was originally intended to some of the stories that you hear today,” said University of Georgia President Jere Morehead, who is chair of the NCAA Division I Board of Directors. “We have, I think, a high level of urgency to review that issue. But we also have to be cautious and careful because of litigation and potential litigation around any rules that the NCAA sets at a national level.”

“I think this is an area where Congress has important responsibility,” Morehead said. “I don’t think Congress is going to be able to stay on the sideline with respect to some of the critical issues facing intercollegiate athletics. … It doesn’t work to have different NIL rules in every state.”

Since last summer, the NCAA’s “interim” policy has held that schools should be guided by their state laws and, in states without such laws, set their own minimalist guidelines. Many involved in the space believe the main requirement is simply that athletes must do something NIL-related for whatever money they receive.

“There cannot be any consideration provided to an athlete without some sort of quid pro quo,” Heitner said. Other parameters, he said, are that compensation can’t be contingent on an athlete enrolling at a particular school and can’t be de facto bonuses for athletic performance. “Outside of that, the NCAA has been very silent,” he said.

Some 3,500 contracts were sent to college athletes through Icon Source alone in six months last year, and five of the top 10 earners were female, Garrett said. Another NIL marketplace, Opendorse, said 50.6% of compensation earned through its collegiate platform has been by football players, 18.5% by women’s basketball players, 15% by men’s basketball players and the rest scattered across other sports.

The next superweapon in college sports’ recruiting arms race may be the collectives, third-party entities designed to create financial opportunities for athletes.

Also gathering momentum are group licensing deals, which athletes can choose to join to share in profits from sales of merchandise, including jerseys, bearing their names and their school’s intellectual property.
He estimated athletes generally should be able to get a 10% to 14% royalty from merchandise.
 

RamblinRed

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
5,901
Article on GT and NIL

Sarah Bates has been a part-time starter for the Georgia Tech basketball team this season and was the team’s sixth-leading scorer as the Yellow Jackets were to begin NCAA Tournament play on Friday against Kansas.

From that perspective, she might not be the prototypical candidate to bring in hundreds of dollars through name, image and likeness endorsements. She has done so, however, achieving success in the NIL realm with effort, assistance from an agent and an active TikTok account.

Bates’ TikTok account, with a little more than 30,000 followers, is a difference maker. To put that following into context, it easily clears one of the standards that TikTok has (10,000 followers) to admit users into its Creator Fund, which pays the platform’s most influential content creators. Bates said that she gets paid “way more” for posting on TikTok than Instagram, on which she has about 10,400 followers.

Tech provided broad numbers about the NIL activity among its 400-plus athletes. Almost a third of Jackets athletes had reported NIL deals to the athletic department from the start of July through February, with the total of the deals exceeding $175,000 in value, which includes cash and products/services. Given the lag in reporting deals, the actual totals were likely higher than that.

The NIL deal at Tech that perhaps made the biggest splash was by 90 members of the football team who signed deals with the television technology brand TiVo in August. They were compensated with a $404 debit card and a streaming device, among other gifts, in exchange for social-media posts touting TiVo products.
 

WrongShadeOfGold

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
360
Article on GT and NIL

Sarah Bates has been a part-time starter for the Georgia Tech basketball team this season and was the team’s sixth-leading scorer as the Yellow Jackets were to begin NCAA Tournament play on Friday against Kansas.

From that perspective, she might not be the prototypical candidate to bring in hundreds of dollars through name, image and likeness endorsements. She has done so, however, achieving success in the NIL realm with effort, assistance from an agent and an active TikTok account.

Bates’ TikTok account, with a little more than 30,000 followers, is a difference maker. To put that following into context, it easily clears one of the standards that TikTok has (10,000 followers) to admit users into its Creator Fund, which pays the platform’s most influential content creators. Bates said that she gets paid “way more” for posting on TikTok than Instagram, on which she has about 10,400 followers.

Tech provided broad numbers about the NIL activity among its 400-plus athletes. Almost a third of Jackets athletes had reported NIL deals to the athletic department from the start of July through February, with the total of the deals exceeding $175,000 in value, which includes cash and products/services. Given the lag in reporting deals, the actual totals were likely higher than that.

The NIL deal at Tech that perhaps made the biggest splash was by 90 members of the football team who signed deals with the television technology brand TiVo in August. They were compensated with a $404 debit card and a streaming device, among other gifts, in exchange for social-media posts touting TiVo products.
We're handing out $404 gift cards and antiquated technology while other schools are giving out hundreds of thousands of dollars. Short answer to the OP's question is, "No, we can't. "
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,044
We're handing out $404 gift cards and antiquated technology while other schools are giving out hundreds of thousands of dollars. Short answer to the OP's question is, "No, we can't. "
I think it is a lot like other things. Can we do the same thing that schools like Texas and TX A&M are doing with their donors and 1/4 billion dollar budgets? No. Can we do things differently and be successful? It is possible:
  • Wasn't the athletic department or the football team working with a personal brand management company? I haven't personally seen effects of that. Such an organization should be help someone with a personality like Usher make a lot of money.
  • The GTAA started a VC fund to invest in GT student and alumni startup companies. Get the athletes involved with the startups and the startup culture. It is a longer tail, but imagine in five years some former mutt athletes having wasted $200k in NIL money while some GT athletes are sitting pretty with $1billion in stock options.
As with football in general, it will not work to try to copy everyone else. However, for NIL in particular, GT has some outstanding advantages that it could pursue. Will it try to maximize those advantages or will the GTAA flounder yet again?
 

Vespidae

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,342
Location
Auburn, AL
I think it is a lot like other things. Can we do the same thing that schools like Texas and TX A&M are doing with their donors and 1/4 billion dollar budgets? No. Can we do things differently and be successful? It is possible:
  • Wasn't the athletic department or the football team working with a personal brand management company? I haven't personally seen effects of that. Such an organization should be help someone with a personality like Usher make a lot of money.
  • The GTAA started a VC fund to invest in GT student and alumni startup companies. Get the athletes involved with the startups and the startup culture. It is a longer tail, but imagine in five years some former mutt athletes having wasted $200k in NIL money while some GT athletes are sitting pretty with $1billion in stock options.
As with football in general, it will not work to try to copy everyone else. However, for NIL in particular, GT has some outstanding advantages that it could pursue. Will it try to maximize those advantages or will the GTAA flounder yet again?
It will flounder. Alabama is already on ANOTHER massive fundraising campaign to build an NIL warchest. Many other schools are doing likewise. Tech is so dysfunctional ... STILL! Not sharing databases between the GTAA, the Hill and the AA? in 2021?

I started day drinking early today to watch basketball. But the more things change, the more they stay the same.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,044
..... Alabama is already on ANOTHER massive fundraising campaign to build an NIL warchest.......
My point was that GT cannot compete with that. People that believe the GTAA should just do the same things the same ways are dillusional.

However, if there are 15 billionaire former GT athletes in five or ten years that could carry a lot of sway. (with a B, not an M)
 

Vespidae

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,342
Location
Auburn, AL
My point was that GT cannot compete with that. People that believe the GTAA should just do the same things the same ways are dillusional.

However, if there are 15 billionaire former GT athletes in five or ten years that could carry a lot of sway. (with a B, not an M)
There aren't. We are Vandy. That's the reality.
 

billga99

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
852
There aren't. We are Vandy. That's the reality.
Most D1 schools with significant alumni bases have people with money. The question is at academically oriented schools are those alumni inclined to give their money towards academic endeavors or athletic pursuits. I don't think it is lack of money but lack of people (with significant money) who are passionate about sports. Also in this area, if you were companies handing out NIL money to get attention, would you turn to GT or the SEC where most fans in Atlanta and the Southeast care far more about.
 

Vespidae

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,342
Location
Auburn, AL
Most D1 schools with significant alumni bases have people with money. The question is at academically oriented schools are those alumni inclined to give their money towards academic endeavors or athletic pursuits. I don't think it is lack of money but lack of people (with significant money) who are passionate about sports. Also in this area, if you were companies handing out NIL money to get attention, would you turn to GT or the SEC where most fans in Atlanta and the Southeast care far more about.
I don't disagree with your point. In fact, I agree with it. And another reason why I think we are more like Vandy than any other school.
 

Randy Carson

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,390
Location
Apex, NC
Written with UGA in mind but still a good overview.


“We had a little dinner in Athens, and oh my God, I’m handing these 19-to 22-year-olds checks for $28,000,” said Murray, the former Georgia Bulldogs quarterback who remains the SEC career leader in passing yards. “I was lucky to have a few hundred bucks in my bank account (during college).”

Eleven members of Georgia’s 2021 national championship football team reacted with “big eyes,” Murray said, when they received the checks last month — their shares from the early profits of a new venture launched by Murray and several other former UGA players turned marketing entrepreneurs.
Well, that's probably as much money as some of those kids will ever see in their lifetimes...especially if they are injured, aren't drafted, or flame out in the pros.

I tell myself that the Tech kids will have long and prosperous careers in the real world using their degrees which will pay them much, much more over the long run.
 

Adadu

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,101
Well, that's probably as much money as some of those kids will ever see in their lifetimes...especially if they are injured, aren't drafted, or flame out in the pros.

I tell myself that the Tech kids will have long and prosperous careers in the real world using their degrees which will pay them much, much more over the long run.
I'm curious to see, of the Tech football graduate population, how successful are former players at utilizing their degree compared to the rest of the Tech student population. It all gets lumped into "we're a great school" but from what I can tell our guys are really no better off than someone out of Tennessee, uga, etc in terms of where these guys who end up not making it to the NFL actually work (or decide to coach). Especially now with NIL, this argument is becoming more and more hollow. Obviously, there are exceptions like Ryan King who is a computer science major...but overall we're gonna have to buck up and stop with the degree value stuff if we want to bring in big talent.
 

JacketFan137

Banned
Messages
2,536
I'm curious to see, of the Tech football graduate population, how successful are former players at utilizing their degree compared to the rest of the Tech student population. It all gets lumped into "we're a great school" but from what I can tell our guys are really no better off than someone out of Tennessee, uga, etc in terms of where these guys who end up not making it to the NFL actually work (or decide to coach). Especially now with NIL, this argument is becoming more and more hollow. Obviously, there are exceptions like Ryan King who is a computer science major...but overall we're gonna have to buck up and stop with the degree value stuff if we want to bring in big talent.
i think bragging about a tech degree is talk only for our fans and a small fraction of the players we bring in. telling an 18 year old kid who has any dream of playing in the nfl, which any kid committed to a p5 university would, that his degree will help him when he’s 45 and working is a tough sell. that may convince some parents but let’s not act like the majority of 18 year olds are thinking about that stuff. i know i wouldn’t be
 

Randy Carson

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,390
Location
Apex, NC
i think bragging about a tech degree is talk only for our fans and a small fraction of the players we bring in. telling an 18 year old kid who has any dream of playing in the nfl, which any kid committed to a p5 university would, that his degree will help him when he’s 45 and working is a tough sell. that may convince some parents but let’s not act like the majority of 18 year olds are thinking about that stuff. i know i wouldn’t be
<sigh>

I know. It's tired, worn-out argument long past its prime. I thought I'd trot it out one last time before putting it on a shelf for good.

Thanks for all the good times, little buddy. We'll never forget you. Cheers. :beer:
 

JacketFan137

Banned
Messages
2,536
<sigh>

I know. It's tired, worn-out argument long past its prime. I thought I'd trot it out one last time before putting it on a shelf for good.

Thanks for all the good times, little buddy. We'll never forget you. Cheers. :beer:
i definitely appreciate the merit of the argument and it SHOULD be a bigger priority but in todays era of college football it’s getting harder and harder to sell to the top end of athletes :/
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,736
Well, that's probably as much money as some of those kids will ever see in their lifetimes...especially if they are injured, aren't drafted, or flame out in the pros.

I tell myself that the Tech kids will have long and prosperous careers in the real world using their degrees which will pay them much, much more over the long run.
Some do and some don't, but more of them would if Tech focused on finding good athletes nationwide who are serious students interested in a stem education. They're out there, and Tech is the top institute of technology in P-5. That is an asset that begs to be tapped. Now more than ever, we do indeed need to sell that.
 
Top