Can anyone Wxplain why certain effective plays go missing during the gamethe past few weeks

[motynes]

Maybe it is the fronts we are facing, but it seems like we have some effective plays with the rocket toss and the BBack lead option that are effective but we only ran the once or twice. How come? We ran the rocket toss and got an effective gain and then we ran it the very next play and it got stuffed. But after that we ran the fake toss and a BBack counter that gashed them. Then these plays disappeared. The only time i remember the BBack lead option was on MM TD run. Why do these plays only get run once or twice. We used to run and ton of rocket toss. Now it seems forgotten. If the were doing something to make it impossible why didn't we counter off that more with a BBack counter or and aback counter (which I haven't seen run this year). Seems strange.

 

[Longestday]

Almost everything the team was doing was working. The only series I was truly disappointed in was the 3 and out passing series in the 3rd Q. Why not go to the set with the WR in tight?

I really like how the O did yesterday.

 

[BufordJacket]

I completely agree. There are so many plays from even years past that I have never seen again.

 

[IronJacket7]

I have to say... And there just is NO way to say it without sounding like I'm questioning CPJ....
But I have to agree that it seems like there have been sets and plays that were successful in years past that get underused or not used at all.
Also it seemed like Saturday when we went to the "Flexbone Close" set that it really through PITT for a loop. We had 2-3 successful plays back to back and then didn't see it again....?
However, CPJ knows this offense a trillion times more than we do so...

 

[Techster]

I don't necessarily agree with it, but CPJ has always been someone who looks at tape and of the opponent and will jot down about 5+/- plays he thinks will work against the defense and personnel of a team.

From those plays, he will "tweak" (or make those famous adjustments), and the guys will practice those plays and adjustments all week against different defensive looks. His philosophy has always been our execution on those plays will be far better than your defense because you will have to prepare for ALL the plays (and their derivatives) he's put on film. Of course, there's always our core triple option play, rocket toss, etc. which he'll call based on "feel" of what is going on. It's kind of the opposite of the "jack of all trades, master of none" philosophy.

That's why some weeks you'll see plays with counter motion, or delayed BB trap plays, etc....then not see them for weeks or months at a time. Lots of teams are the same way in a certain sense, but the breadth of plays or formations (or window dressing) will be a bit more varied.

You see a lot of OCs script about 10-20 plays, then go by "feel" off how defenses react to those plays. There's no right or wrong way to do it. What CPJ is doing isn't different from what he did in 2014, or 2009, or 2008...it just feels frustratingly minimalistic because we're not winning this year like we did in those years.

 

[takethepoints]

I see what you mean, but I think we have some constraints on the plays you mentioned.

The main one is that there are only two people with good speed left in our backfield: JT and Marshall. A rocket toss, for instance, will work with ABs who can get to the corner really quickly. But, let's face it, Lynch, MLD, Ike, and co. simply don't have that. Much better to run the TO and get them in a situation where they can strength their way to a first. Also, with the exception of Ike, most of the ABs and WRs are just seeing the light come on about edge blocking. Sooooo … slower to the edge, uncertain about pitch relationships, poor edge blocking = fewer rocket tosses.

As for the speed option, that's a double option, like the midline, and we've never run it more then once or twice a game, even when Dwyer was here. Marshall has the speed to run it, but that isn't a BBs main job. Their job is the dive and getting yards off of that to draw the other side in. Marshall is a bit undersized for that - hence the 10 carries - but he's learning. Now if he'll only learn to block …

Btw, I think we passed on that "drive" in the 3rd Q because Pitt was giving us single coverage all over the field. Problem = we didn't pass block well enough to give JT the time to exploit that. Why is a mystery to me; we did ok on pass blocking in the first half.

 

[tech_wreck47]

Idk what the play is called, but one we run that was effective last year I haven't seen this year, is where we fake the b back dive then the a back on the same side of the fake comes down the line and runs Between the guard and tackle while the qb and other a back fake the triple option the other way? What is this play called, and I wonder why we haven't seen it much this year if we have ran it.

 

[AE 87]

Idk what the play is called, but one we run that was effective last year I haven't seen this year, is where we fake the b back dive then the a back on the same side of the fake comes down the line and runs Between the guard and tackle while the qb and other a back fake the triple option the other way? What is this play called, and I wonder why we haven't seen it much this year if we have ran it.

I think that's an A-Back Iso, but I think it's one of the last things we introduce.

 

[bke1984]

Almost everything the team was doing was working. The only series I was truly disappointed in was the 3 and out passing series in the 3rd Q. Why not go to the set with the WR in tight?

I really like how the O did yesterday.

Might be a little bit of selective memory here. Outside of one drive, the second half offense was pretty sad.

Second half drives were 7-8, 3-5, 5-75, 4-11, and 7-9. That's not very good.

Yeah I know...penalties, missed assignments, and whatever...doesn't change the outcome.

 

[Longestday]

@bke1984 not selective except that it was a 3 and out that started with passing on our 8 yard line. I hate that. I don't like bad pitch relationships and having to making a TD in 1:15 seconds... but I hate 3 and outs...

 

[bke1984]

@bke1984 not selective except that it was a 3 and out that started with passing on our 8 yard line. I hate that. I don't like bad pitch relationships and having to making a TD in 1:15 seconds... but I hate 3 and outs...

I hate three and outs too...just saying that I'm not sure everything was working in the second half...in fact it looked more like nothing was really working. It just goes back to us being very inconsistent with execution right now.

Yeah, the three and out (that was almost a safety, btw) was the most frustrating. Not sure why we didn't run the ball some there backed up like that.

Good news is that they are getting better. That was definitely the best performance of the year...we just need to put one together for a whole game to win if our defense is going to look this bad.

 

[Yaller Jacket]

Based on the things I've heard him say on the radio show and other interviews, this is how I think Paul Johnson would answer the question if you posed it to him:

"I can call our base offense any time, and we fine tune based on what we are seeing from the defense before the snap and as the play unfolds. But there are several other plays which I have to see a specific set of conditions from the defense to call. If I don't see what I am looking for from the defense, I lack confidence that the play will work. If I don't see what I am looking for, chances are I'll go the whole game without calling it. Once I have called that play, if it did go for big yards, I'll be looking for the same set of conditions again. But a smart defensive coordinator will know why I called that play. He probably won't give me the look I want to see to call it again. That's why once a reverse, say, has gone for big yards I probably won't get another chance to call it. And that's why I get so frustrated with our players at times this year. I have something I have been sitting on set up just right for a big, big play and one or two run the wrong way or fail to block the right assignment. I don't get my big play plus I have shown it to the DC so I'll probably not get a second chance to call it. "

 

[ctcjb]

It is a bit frustrating....it seems we go through spells where plays that seem "obvious" to us, just don't get called. Off the top of my head (and I am sure someone will point out where I am wrong):

- WR slant pattern - has shown up in only 2 games this year
- WR reverse - ran once against Duke and wasn't successful, so I guess put it in our pocket until next year
- Drag patterns to A-Backs (like Hill scored on against Ga Southern last year) - I'm not sure we have seen that this year at all
- Smoke Routes - seems to disappear for games at a time
- Fake Rocket Toss, inside counter - not sure we have seen that this season
- B Back Draw/Screen

Now, I understand certain coordinators don't give us a look that would allow certain plays, but do 7 straight coordinators take aways these same plays each week?

I know this is blasphemy, but I think CPJ could benefit from using a call sheet (gasp). Gus Malzahn uses a call sheet, so does Chip Kelly, and Chad Morris. Why do they do it? Does CPJ really know his offense that much better than those guys know theirs??? I doubt it. They do it so in the heat of the moment, when trying pick the right play for a situation, they have their potential 'options' staring them in the face. Or they can flag plays to come back to late in the game.

I am sure some of you will disagree, but I think CPJ would benefit....just sayin'.

 

[OldJacketFan]

It is a bit frustrating....it seems we go through spells where plays that seem "obvious" to us, just don't get called. Off the top of my head (and I am sure someone will point out where I am wrong):

- WR slant pattern - has shown up in only 2 games this year
- WR reverse - ran once against Duke and wasn't successful, so I guess put it in our pocket until next year
- Drag patterns to A-Backs (like Hill scored on against Ga Southern last year) - I'm not sure we have seen that this year at all
- Smoke Routes - seems to disappear for games at a time
- Fake Rocket Toss, inside counter - not sure we have seen that this season
- B Back Draw/Screen

Now, I understand certain coordinators don't give us a look that would allow certain plays, but do 7 straight coordinators take aways these same plays each week?

I know this is blasphemy, but I think CPJ could benefit from using a call sheet (gasp). Gus Malzahn uses a call sheet, so does Chip Kelly, and Chad Morris. Why do they do it? Does CPJ really know his offense that much better than those guys know theirs??? I doubt it. They do it so in the heat of the moment, when trying pick the right play for a situation, they have their potential 'options' staring them in the face. Or they can flag plays to come back to late in the game.

I am sure some of you will disagree, but I think CPJ would benefit....just sayin'.

Yes he does.