Milwaukee
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Bud's Message to International Students
- Thread starter Milwaukee
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OldJacketFan
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Nicely done Bud.
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"Over the past 20 years, Georgia Tech has grown into one of the most global research universities in the nation. The overall student body attracts students from 127 countries, and 54 percent of our B.S. degree recipients have an international experience prior to graduation. I am particularly proud of the Georgia Tech community for its broad global perspective, its welcoming environment and its ability to come together to address challenges in a positive manner. I know that I speak on behalf of the entire Georgia Tech community when I say we are enormously proud of our international students and the international scholars who have contributed to Georgia Tech’s reputation, and are a key component of our 25-year Strategic Plan with its global focus. Georgia Tech is a stronger, better place because of the contributions of our international community. You are welcome here, and you are valued."
Thank you.
Thank you.
Whiskey_Clear
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Oh ffs
Cam
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Care to elaborate why you're upset? These are necessary statements. Imagine the thought that if you go back home next summer you don't know whether you'll be able to return to the US to finish your degree. It's important to reassure GT students that we'll fight for their right to attend the university we all love. There's a lot of uncertainty regarding their futures and futures of anyone hoping to continue life in the US from the selected countries.
Squints
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I don't see how anyone can have any issues with this statement.
LibertyTurns
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I must have missed something because I didn't see him make any mention of fighting for their right to attend GT. His statement says they will provide information & assistance, ie obtain clarifying information from USG officials. I didn't get anything out of his statement that GT was lobbying the USG or the President to change policy. I don't believe anyone has an issue with properly documented aliens from attending GT. What hacks me off is crap like illegal aliens attending GT on in state tuition while US citizens are not provided the same benefit. Heck you can't even get in state tuition if you move in from out of state without "proving" you didn't move in state to get reduced tuition. I couldn't even start my new job without 2 forms of ID verifying I'm a US citizen but if I was from Nicaragua I could waltz across the US border and without any identification attend GT on in state tuition without anyone even batting an eye. C'mon man they're not even US citizens much less GA residents. Am I the only one that thinks stuff like this is insane? Hey it's great for diversity and makes the Institute stronger but you need to follow the laws of our country
Cam
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What are you talking about? You went way off course there. Bud's statement is in regard to the immigration ban on people from Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Somalia, and Yemen. Everyone who is at GT from these countries is an immigrant on a visa or who is working toward citizenship. Completely legal and, according to the University System of Georgia policies, does not qualify for in-state tuition. The primary issue is a properly documented student who would ordinarily have the ability to come and go to the United States and GT as they please, but with the current ban might not be able to ever return home without fear that they can't get back. I don't know where you felt like illegal immigration fits into this, but it's not related to the original post. Regardless, if you read the link I posted before, you'll see that they only qualify for in-state if they are classified as legally in the state. There are additional considerations for those who are lawful permanent residents and refugees, but they are still by definition residents of Georgia. All of this requires the necessary documentation to prove you are at the very least a resident, you cannot just waltz into Georgia and obtain in-state tuition so easily. As to your out of state move in issue, you need to live in Georgia for a full 12 months before the start of classes, which is a fair stipulation. Most acceptance letters are sent out between November to March of the previous year, which means you'll receive your letter long before you move to Georgia. There would be no other perceived reason for moving unless it's for school, so it's protection for the Institute. Lastly, I have no clue why you brought up your job's requirement of two IDs when it has no impact on your argument. If any immigrant without the necessary forms of documentation was applying for your job, they would not get it.
LibertyTurns
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This is what I was referring to:
http://getschooled.blog.myajc.com/2...dge-rules-otherwise-in-in-state-tuition-case/
My point about ID is it's only enforced against those obeying the law. You are correct it was off topic though.
http://getschooled.blog.myajc.com/2...dge-rules-otherwise-in-in-state-tuition-case/
My point about ID is it's only enforced against those obeying the law. You are correct it was off topic though.
cyptomcat
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Looks good to me.
They were brought to Georgia as kids, not their fault. They have Georgia on their mind. If they qualify for Tech, give them the chance to attend Tech and make Georgia better.
OldJacketFan
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But they're illegal
Actually, I don't think the kids are illegals. That's from how I read ".... path to citizenship by the Obama administration’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program meet the definition of “lawful presence” and are entitled to pay in-state tuition at Georgia’s public colleges."
Some may not like Obama's action, but it has been upheld as constitutional. So it's the law.
OldJacketFan
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Whiskey_Clear
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How many nuclear engineers should we graduate to return to those 7 countries? Only a little tongue in cheek there.
Where was all this concern when O'bama enacted the very same ban? Hypocrisy much?
Where shall the outrage be directed if open borders allow terrorists unfettered access to launch attacks here at home? Why the outrage for attempting to limit this possibility? It's honestly a small measure to mitigate such attacks but is better than nothing. It's also not a permanent ban so the hysteria in opposition is a bit laughable.
Do you not see the possible dangers this would create? Do you think the majority of people from those countries are friendly to America in general? If you think all Somalis should be granted free entry into our country I invite you to read the book Blackhawk Down. That read will grant you a little insight into a large portion of the makeup of that society. Not as good as my Delta buddy's first hand accounts but pretty good nonetheless. Does that mean no Somalis should be granted visas? No. But we should try and be as damn careful as possible when granting them.
On another note, regarding immigration. When did all of the peoples of the world earn the right to come here? Whether to become citizens, visit family, or just see the sights as tourists? I'm not saying we should ban any of that but when did any of it become their right?
Once upon a time immigrants wishing to become citizens had to prove they could add value to our country with a skill or a trade. Why is that no longer a worthy endeavor? Why should an immigrant wishing to come here for welfare be granted equal access to entry compared to someone with a skill, trade, or expertise in a needed / high value field? Where is the logic in that?
Where was all this concern when O'bama enacted the very same ban? Hypocrisy much?
Where shall the outrage be directed if open borders allow terrorists unfettered access to launch attacks here at home? Why the outrage for attempting to limit this possibility? It's honestly a small measure to mitigate such attacks but is better than nothing. It's also not a permanent ban so the hysteria in opposition is a bit laughable.
Do you not see the possible dangers this would create? Do you think the majority of people from those countries are friendly to America in general? If you think all Somalis should be granted free entry into our country I invite you to read the book Blackhawk Down. That read will grant you a little insight into a large portion of the makeup of that society. Not as good as my Delta buddy's first hand accounts but pretty good nonetheless. Does that mean no Somalis should be granted visas? No. But we should try and be as damn careful as possible when granting them.
On another note, regarding immigration. When did all of the peoples of the world earn the right to come here? Whether to become citizens, visit family, or just see the sights as tourists? I'm not saying we should ban any of that but when did any of it become their right?
Once upon a time immigrants wishing to become citizens had to prove they could add value to our country with a skill or a trade. Why is that no longer a worthy endeavor? Why should an immigrant wishing to come here for welfare be granted equal access to entry compared to someone with a skill, trade, or expertise in a needed / high value field? Where is the logic in that?
Whiskey_Clear
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Well said BO.....I give credit when it's due. Too bad his actions didn't back up his words.
OldJacketFan
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@Whiskey_Clear the vast majority of time you and I see eye to eye but on this one we will agree to disagree. There are so many incorrect statements in you missive with just enough correct to be plausible on the surface. I refuse to be drawn into a rant on this as it will serve no purpose, suffice to say I disagree with your stance.
Whiskey_Clear
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I respect almost everyone on this board, agree or disagree, football or politics. Oldjacketfan certainly included. I'm trolling no one. Just giving my honest take. But it seems a bit....emotional to call out someone else's "incorrect statements" without pointing out the actual errors stated.
Cam
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Whiskey_Clear takes over three days to respond to my original comment and it's after an hour that you call out people for "going silent?" Come on, man. Pointing out no one has replied immediately doesn't mean there's an absence of thought. It means I (or anyone else including Whiskey_Clear) didn't bother checking this thread for a couple hours/days or, in the case of @OldJacketFan, just doesn't want to get roped into it. It doesn't do any good to just throw out unwarranted insults.When confronted with thoughtful points for discussion, the thoughtless go silent.
I'll preface by saying that this has gotten off track of the original topic, which was originally in regard to Georgia Tech students. They are not terrorists. They are students of the Institute you support. They represent the White and Gold (and by proxy the Red, White, and Blue) just as much as you or I do. When an executive order impacts their academic career, as a GT supporter (and I assume alumnus) you should support them regardless of their background or nationality.
To step away from the GT student situation and get into your points, you need to assess this as a risk evaluation. Since 9/11, as far as I know there hasn't been a single US terrorist attack caused by someone from one of the banned countries. 9/11 was committed by men from four different countries not included on the list. Boston Bombings were Chechnya-Americans. Even the Orlando shooting was an American born and raised person whose parents were from Afghanistan and were moderate Muslims. The point being that we have no previous history of people from these countries hating Americans and being a threat. In fact, by showing compassion and taking in their refugees you are generating a love for America in the people coming here. In contrast, shutting them out logically breeds hatred. You might find this naive, but I feel it shows massive paranoia to assume that some refugees are terrorists in waiting. You have to keep in mind that the FBI is going to closely monitor anyone coming into the country from these nations. The likelihood of any terroristic attacks happening here on US soil is negligible. I am more likely to die in a school shooting, so should I start advocating we kick out white men with histories of mental illness? Of course not.
Additionally, this is not something anyone expects to be temporary. So what you find laughable is just people realizing that if you let one order slide, you'll allow precedent to be put in place that can become something much more permanent going forward. Longer duration of bans, more countries added, etc. At which point you could create a very isolationist union, which has its very negative effects. If you're in any way familiar with the technology industry, you know we'll be losing quite a lot of talent there as much of it is not American born. There is legitimate concern for our economy based in Silicon Valley.
The main idea though is that this is a humanitarian cause. You're taking people in a war-torn country and providing them with a safe shelter. By refusing their entry, you're acting in a way that can be aptly called "inhumane" and its something that has come to the attention of a lot of world leaders. Very recently we've started to alienate a long time ally in Australia because of our country's stance on this. This boils down to an innocence until proven guilty scenario. I can see how you do not want to allow people in because even just one terroristic attack is going to cause irreparable damage. And I don't disagree. But from a risk analysis standpoint, if in the previous 15 years since the last major terrorist attack with fully open borders we have experienced no damage from these countries, why would we expect something now? That's my logic at work. Trust in our vetting system. Trust in the logic that those being cast out will only hold hatred for those that forced them to move, not for the country that accepted them.
Lastly, I have never heard anything about someone having to display some kind of worth to move into the country. I am legitimately curious where you ever heard, read, or saw that information and if you can provide it I would greatly appreciate it. Because as far as I know, that has never been a stipulation for entering the country. My great grandfather emigrated from Greece without knowing the English language and hardly having any education or money. He looked pretty damn worthless on paper, but still did very well for himself here in the US. Plenty of people come to the US without displaying immediate worth and do more good for America than a lot of American born citizens. The point being that you have no idea what value they bring. There are people with PhDs being pushed out. The refugees all lived pretty similar lives to ours before their homes were destroyed. Sergey Brin (co-founder of Google) was a refugee from Russia who came here at age 6. Imagine if we turned his family away because we were paranoid about them being Russian spies.