A question for any NBA fans here...

[4shotB]

my son has season tickets for an NBA team. I don't follow the sport since the "golden era" of the 80's...the Showtime Lakers, the Celtics with DJ, the Chief, Bird and McHale, the Bad Boy Pistons, etc. My son who is in his mid-30's and is really into this particular sport, insists that Nikola Jokic is going to be remembered as one of the all timers one day..i.e, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Oscar, et al. To be honest, I have never heard of him until our conversation so I looked him up on YouTube. It's pretty impressive but it's like looking at a recruiting video....you are not seeing anything but the highlights. What do you you informed sports fans think about this guy?

 

[kg01]

Great player. Was MVP for a reason. Several reasons. My guy @Sothron would be the best to provide more than that.

Personally, I find him a bit overrated. As he's not a great defender, his impact seems to wane w.r.t. actual winning on the biggest stage.

 

[4shotB]

Great player. Was MVP for a reason. Several reasons. My guy @Sothron would be the best to provide more than that.

Personally, I find him a bit overrated. As he's not a great defender, his impact seems to wane w.r.t. actual winning on the biggest stage.

I agree with this in regards to the rings. In any sport. Stats are pretty but what do you do when the bright lights come on?? WTBS, i don't know anything about who he has around him. Jordan needed Pippen, Bird needed McHale, Magic needed Kareem, Willis Reed needed the Pearl, etc. Historically there has to be at least one other stud on the floor with you. See Dominique Wilkins for example. He was as good as there was but did not have the horsepower alongside him imo that several of his contemporaries did.

 

[4shotB]

As I said in the first post above, I don't follow NBA and haven't for a long time. I have to guess the intersection of the sets of people who post here AND follow that particular sport is virtually nil. Or else, this guy is an unknown outside of the small world of NBA fans. I had not heard of him until my son brought him up in conversation.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

my son has season tickets for an NBA team. I don't follow the sport since the "golden era" of the 80's...the Showtime Lakers, the Celtics with DJ, the Chief, Bird and McHale, the Bad Boy Pistons, etc. My son who is in his mid-30's and is really into this particular sport, insists that Nikola Jokic is going to be remembered as one of the all timers one day..i.e, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Oscar, et al. To be honest, I have never heard of him until our conversation so I looked him up on YouTube. It's pretty impressive but it's like looking at a recruiting video....you are not seeing anything but the highlights. What do you you informed sports fans think about this guy?

Yeah, he’s a great player and definitely a first ballot hall of famer(keep in mind basketball is the easiest HoF for American sports). Bird and Magic level? No. LeBron, Curry and Durant are the only current players who currently have that kind of Resume. Luka and Giannis could get there. Jokic is a step below.

 

[Sothron]

my son has season tickets for an NBA team. I don't follow the sport since the "golden era" of the 80's...the Showtime Lakers, the Celtics with DJ, the Chief, Bird and McHale, the Bad Boy Pistons, etc. My son who is in his mid-30's and is really into this particular sport, insists that Nikola Jokic is going to be remembered as one of the all timers one day..i.e, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, Oscar, et al. To be honest, I have never heard of him until our conversation so I looked him up on YouTube. It's pretty impressive but it's like looking at a recruiting video....you are not seeing anything but the highlights. What do you you informed sports fans think about this guy?

If Jokic retired right now he'd walk into the Hall of Fame as the greatest passing big man in the history of the sport. Period. He is definitely an all time legend already. He is the back to back MVP and probably will win a third straight MVP (and he should) which puts him in the rarest air in the world in regards to the NBA.

He is unstoppable on offense. He is a three level scorer. He is a very good rebounder. His passing is simply unbelievable. He is a good positional defender and pick and roll defender as a true center. The only thing he lacks is he is not a shot blocker.

I would trade every player on the Atlanta Hawks including Trae Young to get Jokic. He is simply that good.

The reason he isn't a household name in America is because he plays for a non major market team in a non Eastern coast time and he's a foreign white player. Jokic is a joy to the game of basketball. There's simply no other way to say it.

 

[4shotB]

If Jokic retired right now he'd walk into the Hall of Fame as the greatest passing big man in the history of the sport. Period. He is definitely an all time legend already. He is the back to back MVP and probably will win a third straight MVP (and he should) which puts him in the rarest air in the world in regards to the NBA.

The reason he isn't a household name in America is because he plays for a non major market team in a non Eastern coast time and he's a foreign white player. Jokic is a joy to the game of basketball. There's simply no other way to say it.

Interesting response and thanks. This is in the spirit of how my son talks about him and you seem a bit more bullish on the guy than @kg01 and @BleedGoldNWhite21. I have looked up the three guys who have won 3 MVP's in a row - Russell, Wilt and Bird. IMO, those three plus Jordan are where you would start a basketball Mt. Rushmore. If he joins that list that does indeed speak volumes. To kg's point though, he will at some point need to get a ring to avoid the Dan Marino stigma. Although that's much easier to do these days with a player's ability to move around ("take their talents to....") via free agency. I appreciate all the responses. I was trying to get a feel of how much hyperbole/exaggeration was coming from my son about this guy. Sounds like he was not overstating this guy's abilities.

 

[slugboy]

Interesting response and thanks. This is in the spirit of how my son talks about him and you seem a bit more bullish on the guy than @kg01 and @BleedGoldNWhite21. I have looked up the three guys who have won 3 MVP's in a row - Russell, Wilt and Bird. IMO, those three plus Jordan are where you would start a basketball Mt. Rushmore. If he joins that list that does indeed speak volumes. To kg's point though, he will at some point need to get a ring to avoid the Dan Marino stigma. Although that's much easier to do these days with a player's ability to move around ("take their talents to....") via free agency. I appreciate all the responses. I was trying to get a feel of how much hyperbole/exaggeration was coming from my son about this guy. Sounds like he was not overstating this guy's abilities.

I’d say Charles Barkley instead of Dan Marino. Players seem to go to LA for one year to get their ring, so we’ll see what Jokic does.

It’s not just Jokic. Giannis Antetokounmpo is amazing, won a title, but he would probably be twice as famous in Boston, Philly, NYC, LA, or Miami.

He is unstoppable on offense. He is a three level scorer. He is a very good rebounder. His passing is simply unbelievable. He is a good positional defender and pick and roll defender as a true center. The only thing he lacks is he is not a shot blocker.

I would trade every player on the Atlanta Hawks including Trae Young to get Jokic. He is simply that good.

I was on a flight during the Trae Young-Luka Doncic trade watching the draft and managed NOT to yell out loud from my aisle seat. They justification was that it was two high draft picks for Doncic, and since then they’ve traded away half of that Doncic trade in Cam Reddish. Atlanta lost that trade. Owners change, but you can’t trust the Atlanta franchise to manage a roster.

 

[GaTech4ever]

Interesting response and thanks. This is in the spirit of how my son talks about him and you seem a bit more bullish on the guy than @kg01 and @BleedGoldNWhite21. I have looked up the three guys who have won 3 MVP's in a row - Russell, Wilt and Bird. IMO, those three plus Jordan are where you would start a basketball Mt. Rushmore. If he joins that list that does indeed speak volumes. To kg's point though, he will at some point need to get a ring to avoid the Dan Marino stigma. Although that's much easier to do these days with a player's ability to move around ("take their talents to....") via free agency. I appreciate all the responses. I was trying to get a feel of how much hyperbole/exaggeration was coming from my son about this guy. Sounds like he was not overstating this guy's abilities.

I follow the NBA extremely close and @Sothron is 100% accurate in everything he said imo.

 

[slugboy]

Just saw this today @4shotB

 

[4shotB]

Just saw this today @4shotB

View attachment 13938

I know you are the numbers guy, but my take on this graph is the y-coordinate is way more important than the x-coordinate. If so, as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[slugboy]

I know you are the numbers guy, but my take on this graph is the y-coordinate is way more important than the x-coordinate. If so, as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

I’d put a sloped line through the Jokic bubble. The question is whether the line goes through Doncic or not and how much it slopes.

Being money when you shoot is awesome, but you need volume to get points, and points win. It’s great if you average 3 points per attempt, but if you only take one shot per game, who are you helping?

As a numbers guy, the lack of an origin sucks (y should start at zero). Also Trae is in a funk

 

[4shotB]

I’d put a sloped line through the Jokic bubble. The question is whether the line goes through Doncic or not and how much it slopes.

Being money when you shoot is awesome, but you need volume to get points, and points win. It’s great if you average 3 points per attempt, but if you only take one shot per game, who are you helping?

As a numbers guy, the lack of an origin sucks (y should start at zero). Also Trae is in a funk

I know we are talking at the extremes but the guys I hated playing with (or watching on my team as a fan) is the guy who gets his total points per game via numerous attempts (high x-coordinate, low y-coordinate). Those types have a somewhat immeasurable effect on a team, and it's generally not positive.
Agree with the lack of origin. The second half of a math course I teach is pretty much an intro to stats course. We begin the course with a discussion of how it can and is misused. On of the main examples are graphs and charts with incorrect labeling and/or scaling of the x and y axis. Not surprisingly it was rather easy to find several examples to show my class from any of the major media and "news" outlets that caters to a target demographic on either end of the political spectrum.

 

[CuseJacket]

 

[CuseJacket]

 

[4shotB]

Cuse, in light of your last two posts above, my original post seems a bit ridiculous in retrospect. I think it surely says more about my knowledge of the NBA than it does about the Joker's ability to play basketball. This guy is doing stuff that hasn't been done before as the one tweet above says.

 

[CuseJacket]

Cuse, in light of your last two posts above, my original post seems a bit ridiculous in retrospect. I think it surely says more about my knowledge of the NBA than it does about the Joker's ability to play basketball. This guy is doing stuff that hasn't been done before as the one tweet above says.

I don’t think it was ridiculous in context. While he does have a couple of MVPs, many casual fans and observers have likely rarely seen him play much. Not being in EST hurts and Denver isn’t a major market.

Now if he and the Nuggets handle business the rest of the playoffs, or at least get to the Finals, then any questions of that ilk are fair game for ridicule.

 

[kg01]

I don’t think it was ridiculous in context. While he does have a couple of MVPs, many casual fans and observers have likely rarely seen him play much. Not being in EST hurts and Denver isn’t a major market.

Now if he and the Nuggets handle business the rest of the playoffs, or at least get to the Finals, then any questions of that ilk are fair game for ridicule.

I dont recall what I said on the subject. Something brilliant probably.

But I'm so enjoying what this guy is doing. The icing on the cake is the guy that won the mvp getting knocked TF out early after all his posturing and shot-taking at Jokic. I'm rooting hard for DEN this poatseason.

 

[iopjacket]

Just saw this today @4shotB

View attachment 13938

Great graph. With my limited knowledge of modern pro basketball, I would say that passing and creating assists is Jokic's greatest skill. He may not be a great defender, but he is very good at stripping the ball and uses his feet better than anyone I have ever seen at blocking bonce passes.

 

[AUFC]

Personally, I find him a bit overrated. As he's not a great defender, his impact seems to wane w.r.t. actual winning on the biggest stage.