60 years since GT left the SEC

[Randy Carson]

 

[LT 1967]

Everyone is probably ready for the leftovers from Thanksgiving Dinner. However, let me add a little reading material to the conversation. See the two attachments. First one is from Coach Dodd's book and the second one is from Homer Rice's book.

Coach Dodd gives more detail concerning the SEC Vote. The Headlines said that GT resigned before the vote. Not exactly according to Coach Dodd.
Also, see the comments in Coach Dodd's book that the 140 rule needed to be discarded or the annual max of 45 needed to be reduced.

In Dr. Rice's book he notes that the SEC dropped the annual max from 45 to 40 prior to the recruiting cycle of 1964 which was probably summer or early Fall?? This was only a few months after the January meeting when we resigned. Mitchell Ginn also says in his article for the Tech Alumni Magazine that Dr. Rose of Alabama had gotten an agreement from the SEC Presidents in January that the annual max could be dropped from 45 to 40, but the140 total to remain. To me that would seem to be a reasonable compromise.

The proposal at 40/140 is close to the same differential as the current 25/85. The 40/140 rule results in 20 extra players over 4 years or 5 per year allowed for attrition. The current 25/85 rule results in 15 extra players over 4 years or 3.75 per year. This would definitely result in fewer players for other SEC schools to recruit and cull out of the program.

I assume Dr. Davidson was in the President's meeting in January, so I surmise that the reduction to 40 per year was not low enough or Tech's demand was to drop the 140 or else. Some of the other SEC members saw it as an ultimatum.

Correction, I said Dr. Davidson above. Should be Dr.Harrison!!

 

[Tommy_Taylor_1972]

I think we've hashed this out as much as we can. The SEC and GT have moved past that vote and have gone in different directions. This is what I'll say about the situation:

Dodd was an uncommon man that operated on a different set of standards. He was dealing with men who were willing to operate beneath those standards to win. We see it far too often even in today's collegiate sports world. Dodd was probably too idealistic for the business of football, but all fields need people like Dodd to uphold some form equilibrium between those who win at all cost, and those that want to be on the right side of history when it's all said and done. Dodd did not win as many games as Bryant, but at the end of the day history looks at Dodd beyond just football, and Bryant's place in history is confined to the football field.

The record books say that in the initial 30 years of the ACC, Tech got 5 SEC Championship trophies, Alabama got 5, UGA got 4, and Old Miss beat all with 6. We were in the middle of the SEC pack the ten years before leaving and were in the top tier of independents, which included Notre Dame, Penn State, FSU, for the next few years. About the same with the change to ACC, with winning the national championship there. Overall, good runs in every conference.

Both Dodd and Bryant have national coaches of the year named after them, so that is a jump ball on who is best, both great coaches. Nick Sabin has won both, so has Joe Paterno and Bobby Ross. No UGA coach has ever won the Bryant Award, but the gentlemanly Dodd and Homer Rice awards was given to UGA's coach and AD Vince Dooly. I don't thing Alabama and Georgia like each other, but at least Alabama likes Tech and vice versa, at least in namesake awards. Go Jackets and Crush Georgia.

 

[Tommy_Taylor_1972]

Glad all this has been hashed out and we can keep the statues in front of "Hyundai" field. Hard to let that "formerly grant Field" word roll off my fingertips.

 

[UgaBlows]

Only Tech fans will spend time during rivalry hate week bashing our hall of fame head coach of 60 years ago, who was also honored by having college football's most coveted national coaching award for success on the gridiron, while also stressing the importance of scholarship, leadership and integrity, named after him, and whose record has never come close to being duplicated since. And doing this without having any appreciation of all the factors involved during the time of his decision. Simply crazy.

There’s a difference between bashing and questioning his decisions. Just because he was a great human being doesn’t mean everything he did was perfect.

 

[bobongo]

The record books say that in the initial 30 years of the ACC, Tech got 5 SEC Championship trophies, Alabama got 5, UGA got 4, and Old Miss beat all with 6. We were in the middle of the SEC pack the ten years before leaving and were in the top tier of independents, which included Notre Dame, Penn State, FSU, for the next few years. About the same with the change to ACC, with winning the national championship there. Overall, good runs in every conference.

Both Dodd and Bryant have national coaches of the year named after them, so that is a jump ball on who is best, both great coaches. Nick Sabin has won both, so has Joe Paterno and Bobby Ross. No UGA coach has ever won the Bryant Award, but the gentlemanly Dodd and Homer Rice awards was given to UGA's coach and AD Vince Dooly. I don't thing Alabama and Georgia like each other, but at least Alabama likes Tech and vice versa, at least in namesake awards. Go Jackets and Crush Georgia.

Glad you mentioned that. Being an independent wasn't so unusual in 1964:

1964 Independent Year Summary | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

1964 Independent Year Summary

www.sports-reference.com

 

[Bogey]

There’s a difference between bashing and questioning his decisions. Just because he was a great human being doesn’t mean everything he did was perfect.

Wow!

 

[IEEEWreck]

I think most members of the SEC agreed in principle with getting rid of the 140 rule. They just resented GT and didn’t like the way Dodd tried to force it on them, so they called his bluff.

Well then **** Bear Bryant in his dirty, lucre coated ***. And behold the demons that poke it in the sixth circle of hell.

Them that hate the pronunciation of truth are servants of evil.

 

[Tommy_Taylor_1972]

As it was reported in the ATL Journal as it happened. Front page and two sports pages story, 3 clippings.

 

[Bogey]

Bear told Bama fans when he had to come to Atlanta on business he would pack his own lunch 'cause he didn't want to eat Atlanta food. lol

 

[LT 1967]

As it was reported in the ATL Journal as it happened. Front page and two sports pages story, 3 clippings.

Thanks for this post. One of the articles confirms that the vote was taken during this January meeting to reduce the annual scholarship limit from 45 to 40.

 

[GTRambler]

Well. It happened nearly 60 years ago. Nothing we fans can do today, except reminisce a little about it, I guess.

 

[Techster]

The record books say that in the initial 30 years of the ACC, Tech got 5 SEC Championship trophies, Alabama got 5, UGA got 4, and Old Miss beat all with 6. We were in the middle of the SEC pack the ten years before leaving and were in the top tier of independents, which included Notre Dame, Penn State, FSU, for the next few years. About the same with the change to ACC, with winning the national championship there. Overall, good runs in every conference.

Both Dodd and Bryant have national coaches of the year named after them, so that is a jump ball on who is best, both great coaches. Nick Sabin has won both, so has Joe Paterno and Bobby Ross. No UGA coach has ever won the Bryant Award, but the gentlemanly Dodd and Homer Rice awards was given to UGA's coach and AD Vince Dooly. I don't thing Alabama and Georgia like each other, but at least Alabama likes Tech and vice versa, at least in namesake awards. Go Jackets and Crush Georgia.

One of the things I appreciate about these discussions, regardless of anyone's POV on the subject, is how it's led me to do research and learn more about GT's past (and the past of other programs as a matter of uncovering old stories). My GT fandom did not start until 1990. I was in elementary school at the time. It was probably the single most glorious year for GT fans. National Championship for football, and Final Four for basketball. Obviously, I did not live and breath the GT events previous to 1990 like some on here have, so in order to discuss some of the past events, I did extensive research.

One thing is clear, it's hard to be Georgia Tech. I think we are one of the few schools in the college sports landscape that tries to do things the right way. We've paid the price for it, and limited our ceiling because of it. That's not a criticism, that's just the price a school like GT pays to do things "the right way". As you have attested previously, and as others have in the past, GT may not have maximized our wins, but we've certainly maximized the SA's potential off the field regardless of their potential on the field. I think that means something more to GT fans than the average football fan, and when we do have success, it's certainly something that's special.

 

[bobongo]

Could've made a pretty good ten-school conference out of available independents in 1964:

1964 Independent Year Summary | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

1964 Independent Year Summary

www.sports-reference.com

Georgia Tech
Notre Dame
Florida State
Penn State
Miami
Syracuse
Boston College
Pitt
Rutgers
Navy

 

[GaTech4ever]

We should be focusing on tomorrow's game, not the kind of stuff in this thread.

No one on this board is playing today