4-2-5 defense

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
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11,725
I did not grow up playing on a 4-2-5 defense, but they’ve become popular defenses with the rise of spread offenses. We are supposed to be playing in one, although we’ve sometimes used 3 down linemen lately because of depth and injuries.

(I am not close to being an expert on this topic).

This article is two years old, but I thought it was a good read: https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2...ry-patterson-michigan-wolverines-space-backer .

It doesn’t cover Collins/Thacker’s version of a 4-2-5. There can be and are different versions and visions for the defense.

My first confusion in looking at a 4-2-5 is at linebacker—how do you have a middle linebacker when you have two linebackers? Well, you might have one, or you might have two, or you might have none—it depends on your DC and their scheme.

Here’s one description: https://footballtoolbox.net/defense/understanding-the-4-2-5-defense.

You might have a Mike LB and a Will LB. The Mike is your more traditional middle linebacker, and is a plugger (I think we have Curry in this position). The Will is your faster LB, who gets used more for coverage.

Some DCs will run more of a 2-4-5, where the DEs are outside linebackers that occasionally put their hands in the dirt at DE. The defense is about speed and agility and bold, quick decision making (make your read and GO). Players will often be smaller than in a 4-3 or 3-4, but they need to be fast.

Note: earlier, I wrote about the 4-2-5 evolving to solve the spread, and that being one of the reasons for speed and quick decisions. The RPO burns you for committing—you make a read and go, and the QB reads that and hits you where you ain’t.

The one place you don’t get smaller on the field is at NT—that guy gets more important every year.

We’ve gotten some speed at DE, and that’s been great this year. Speed is important for a 4-3 or a 3-4, but it’s essential for a 4-2-5. I’m sure that it’s a major factor in our recruiting. Since it’s about the most common defense right now, those players are more coveted than ever.

For the DBs, you have a Free Safety and two Corners—that’s the part everyone will recognize. We play with a Nickel. The last player is the wild card—they can be in as a strong safety, as a “wolf” or a “rover”/DB as kind of a linebacker. Sometimes, they’re what Saban calls a “money-backer” that’s a DB playing like an inside linebacker. Sometimes, they’re a deep safety and you’re in a 2-deep safety package.

Having 5 DBs playing different roles—some like light, fast linebackers and some more traditional—probably puts a lot of stress on the DB coaches to teach different responsibilities to different kinds of players in different positions.

Again, I’m just learning the 4-2-5: if you’re an expert, I’d love to see you lay out a good description.
 

gville_jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
777
My understanding about the linebackers in our system is that we’ll play the “third” linebacker out wide to cover the slot, similar to a 4-3 system. However, because of the spread offenses, that guy is typically NOT a TE so you don’t want an OLB covering him all game. Hence the prevalence of the Nickel position. It’s a hybrid of linebacker and cornerback (very similar to a safety in size and speed). So the 4-2-5, the 2 is actually offset on the line of scrimmage. You’ll see Curry line up between the guards and Quez out wide on one side. Typically the nickel will be on the opposite side of that linebacker.
 

Ibeeballin

Im a 3*
Messages
6,082
I did not grow up playing on a 4-2-5 defense, but they’ve become popular defenses with the rise of spread offenses. We are supposed to be playing in one, although we’ve sometimes used 3 down linemen lately because of depth and injuries.

(I am not close to being an expert on this topic).

This article is two years old, but I thought it was a good read: https://www.footballstudyhall.com/2...ry-patterson-michigan-wolverines-space-backer .

It doesn’t cover Collins/Thacker’s version of a 4-2-5. There can be and are different versions and visions for the defense.

My first confusion in looking at a 4-2-5 is at linebacker—how do you have a middle linebacker when you have two linebackers? Well, you might have one, or you might have two, or you might have none—it depends on your DC and their scheme.

Here’s one description: https://footballtoolbox.net/defense/understanding-the-4-2-5-defense.

You might have a Mike LB and a Will LB. The Mike is your more traditional middle linebacker, and is a plugger (I think we have Curry in this position). The Will is your faster LB, who gets used more for coverage.

Some DCs will run more of a 2-4-5, where the DEs are outside linebackers that occasionally put their hands in the dirt at DE. The defense is about speed and agility and bold, quick decision making (make your read and GO). Players will often be smaller than in a 4-3 or 3-4, but they need to be fast.

Note: earlier, I wrote about the 4-2-5 evolving to solve the spread, and that being one of the reasons for speed and quick decisions. The RPO burns you for committing—you make a read and go, and the QB reads that and hits you where you ain’t.

The one place you don’t get smaller on the field is at NT—that guy gets more important every year.

We’ve gotten some speed at DE, and that’s been great this year. Speed is important for a 4-3 or a 3-4, but it’s essential for a 4-2-5. I’m sure that it’s a major factor in our recruiting. Since it’s about the most common defense right now, those players are more coveted than ever.

For the DBs, you have a Free Safety and two Corners—that’s the part everyone will recognize. We play with a Nickel. The last player is the wild card—they can be in as a strong safety, as a “wolf” or a “rover”/DB as kind of a linebacker. Sometimes, they’re what Saban calls a “money-backer” that’s a DB playing like an inside linebacker. Sometimes, they’re a deep safety and you’re in a 2-deep safety package.

Having 5 DBs playing different roles—some like light, fast linebackers and some more traditional—probably puts a lot of stress on the DB coaches to teach different responsibilities to different kinds of players in different positions.

Again, I’m just learning the 4-2-5: if you’re an expert, I’d love to see you lay out a good description.

So to answer one of your questions: He’s still the MLB bc he’s still in the middle of those aligned at same depth him or at the second level

Here is good pic for you to understand
8A9805D7-122D-470B-A310-095C6275DD61.jpeg
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
11,725
So to answer one of your questions: He’s still the MLB bc he’s still in the middle of those aligned at same depth him or at the second level

Here is good pic for you to understand View attachment 9290
That’s a really good picture. I can see all 11. I’m on my phone, so it’s too small for me to see the numbers, but we have two (somewhat) deep, and it looks like a corner tight on the line of scrimmage at the bottom.

I may need to pause and replay our next game.
 

jacketup

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,551
People get too hung up on alignments. Look at the picture. Would you call that a 4-2-5?

I believe we call ours a 4-2-5 because it fits our personnel. We have some depth at safety/nickle but not at LB. Those guys have DB size not LB size.

Again, poor recruiting by the last staff is dictating what we are doing. People should have been able to see last Saturday how much faster Clemson's LBs are than ours. Plus, their DL keeps the blockers off the LB. People want to blame the coaches, but it's a talent issue. I'd be playing the freshmen more, but I'm sure the staff has a reason for not doing so.
 

IM79

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
440
So to answer one of your questions: He’s still the MLB bc he’s still in the middle of those aligned at same depth him or at the second level

Here is good pic for you to understand View attachment 9290
2 questions:
what was the result of this play?
how did we end up our best cover corner, #3, with no wide receiver to cover? I assume he would be covering the TE or a running back if it was a pass play while the two receivers at the top are being covered by the lesser of our coverage guys (assuming that's #3 Swilling at the bottom of the screen)
 
Messages
2,034
LOL 4-2-5, 3-4, 4-3 They are all the same. The difference being where you are using the guy that basically is a strong safety/lb. In todays offenses he is either in coverage or used in a blitz package. I you are playing a team that runs a lot, in other words not 5 wide, the strong safety moves towards the strong side play.
 
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