ilovetheoption
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Yeah sorry I wasn't trying to break your balls. Yeah, I've heard slant 50.
3-4 one gap defense
- Thread starter 1939hotmagic
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zhavenor
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I played in a one gap 5-2 defense in high school. It technically was a 5-2 monster, the strong safety is the monster or Hawk because we were the Warhawks. Of course I grew up in Wisconsin in the 90's so you will probably think it some kind of backwoods football.
Yaller Jacket
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I hope so. From my amateur's perspective, you couldn't find a better fit if you could draw one up yourself.
MountainBuzzMan
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Dont disagree, But feel like we need 3. 2 for rotation and there will be injuries during the season.
GTHOSCHTON
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I love this defense...it will fit right in with the type of players we can recruit and will make us more attractive to the defensive lineman who wants to make a big splash for the NFL with a bunch of stats....hated the read and react defensive...... let the players play!!! .....but as fans we must be aware that we will get gashed every once in a while at the worst moments it seems .......but we will make more plays and our offense will improve as this is what we get from so many opposing teams as they slant to motion...going to be interesting for sure.....
on a side note everyones pissed about uga in natty but those uga folks paid a nice sum for my 7 tickets I sold them ......suckers....Roll TIDE!!!
on a side note everyones pissed about uga in natty but those uga folks paid a nice sum for my 7 tickets I sold them ......suckers....Roll TIDE!!!
MountainBuzzMan
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This is the key part. I believe it will lead to more stalled drives by our opponent. Getting a stop is so important with our offense.
Josh H
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Watched the Rams defense on Thursday night. Sure wish Aaron Donald and Robert Quinn lined up for us. Can't wait to see an aggressive D on the flats.
(Yes, the Falcons scored well, but keep in mind the Rams gifted the Falcons with two early turnovers. Could have been worse).
(Yes, the Falcons scored well, but keep in mind the Rams gifted the Falcons with two early turnovers. Could have been worse).
UgaBlows
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Glanton might be a nice smaller/quicker change-up for that position, KCH can hopefully be servicable there too
Whiskey_Clear
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Those guys would have made the “Roof” D look aggressive. Just sayin. Maybe not as much as the schemes they actually played in...but would have. Donald was / is a friggin beast.
1939hotmagic
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Don't know how I missed this one, but it's straight from the horse's mouth: Nate Woody himself on the (Wofford) 3-4 defense a few years ago:
http://buyersguide.coachesdirectory.com/article/woffords-3-4-defense.html
http://buyersguide.coachesdirectory.com/article/woffords-3-4-defense.html
Whiskey_Clear
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Assuming his philosophies haven’t changed much he appears to have a recipe for success, with similar factors in play at Wofford, tailor made for Tech.
I’m gomma be very interested to see what he does with players in position groups, who stays, who moves to a different group, who starts. Will be a very interesting spring on the D side.
UgaBlows
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Great read!
"With high tech information now available to us we've seen offenses evolve like never before. You no longer have to travel to another school and visit for weeks like Bear Bryant did when he installed the wishbone formation that Texas was using in the late 60's and early 70's. I see old wing-T misdirection and sweeps, variations of the power I schemes, triple option concepts, and west coast passing traits all coming out of a no huddle spread formation. The NCAA Championship game between Auburn and Oregon combined two explosive offenses that averaged over 40 points a game for the year. I've always believed running the football is essential in winning championships. On the year, Auburn averaged 284 yds. and Oregon 286 yds. on the ground. Those are good numbers. Each offense was diverse enough to overcome large deficits against quality opponents on their way to the championship game. Oregon threw for 244 yds. a game and Auburn averaged 214 yds. on the year. The misdirections and ball fakes that keep defenses on their heels combined with option plays and quick throws to speedy receivers create a dilemma for defenses. If you bring extra defenders into the box in order to attack this style offense, QB's have an easier time throwing from the shotgun to receivers that have out leveraged their defenders. Wider splits from these receivers usually allow QB's to see which defender will give up the most leverage before the ball is ever snapped. This lends toward shorter high percentage throws that easily raise completion percentages. So how do you stop these types of diverse, balanced offense
At Wofford, we determined that we were better at defending wing-T plays and option schemes from a 50 alignment. Using 3-4 personnel allowed us to put faster defenders on the field. For example, our defensive ends align over the offensive tackles. They rarely get double teamed so the higher priority for us is their quickness. Quick hands and feet make better pass rushers. Many of the offensive linemen we play against today are three hundred pounds or more. This past season our defensive ends weighed two hundred and thirty pounds. Their speed and quickness allowed us to not only rush the passer better but to gain leverage vs. cutoff or reach blocks. We get off those blocks quicker than if we played with heavier, slower footed defensive linemen. Our pursuit against scrambling QB's and receiver screens is better with athletic type ends that can run and almost always their stamina into the fourth quarter is better than a bigger lineman. I don't believe a bigger defensive end that weighs an additional thirty or forty pounds will put fear into an opposing lineman. An offensive lineman fears the guy that is too quick and athletic to block. No doubt the bigger and stronger you can get an athletic, quick end the better, but everyone is looking for that type of guy. If you settle for a smaller frame then you need to help him vs. the combination or double team blocks. We do this by not asking him to play down in the gap between the guard and tackle where he may be double teamed and knocked off the line into a scraping linebacker. We align him in a head up position on the tackle where double teams are less likely to happen. Our ends can be linebacker type bodies that play with their hand down. In the last eleven years we've had an All-Conference end eight times.
Our nose aligns over the center. This is the one defensive lineman that size matters to us. We still want good feet and lateral quickness but he will be doubled by the center and guard on the majority of plays. He must maintain his gap integrity without being knocked off the line of scrimmage. He must be quick enough to penetrate into our opponent's backfield if he gets a reach block from the center or scoop block from the guard. Our nose may be the most critical position in our defense. Finding a bigger guy that can still move quickly and with good balance is the hardest player for us to recruit. In an even front you need two of those guys. In an odd front you just need one of those guys on the field. Eight of the last eleven years we've had an All-Conference nose with several of those gaining All-American honors. Jack Teachey coaches our Defensive Line and has coached sixteen All-Conference defensive linemen in the last eleven years with six All-Americans.
Another reason we play a 3-4 front is that offenses don't easily distinguish which gap our nose or ends are playing. There is a distinct advantage to playing a front with a built in disguise. Our three defensive linemen have been very successful beating blocks and creating pressure out of this front. To complement our disguise up front we use two outside linebackers that stem in and out of the tackle box. Offenses have to account for either or both outside backers rushing from a protection standpoint and the QB must take into consideration the drop of either or both outside backers. Going back to the original concept of getting the quicker more athletic guys on the field, we recruit body types more similar to safeties than backers. There are a lot of guys out there that fit that mold. We are a school of about 1400 students with academic requirements that fall somewhere between the service academies and Ivey League schools. Finding the right fit for Wofford is essential to our success. We expand our recruiting pool by playing with four linebackers. In the recruiting process we can choose between fullbacks, running backs, safeties, or fast linebackers. When many defenses are turning to nickel and dime packages, we are able to leave our base personnel in the game vs. three or four wide-outs. Practice opportunities are maximized by playing with the same personnel. Blitz packages are easier to execute with the extra stand up player and pursuit turns up a notch with the faster players on the field. Nate Fuqua coaches our outside linebackers. He is a former Wofford All-American and four times All-Conference player. He is in the Wofford Athletics Hall of Fame.
Our inside backers generally are a little bigger than our outside backers. They take on blocks from linemen and backs just as our outside backers do, but usually in tighter space. We've been fortunate over the years to be able to move an inside backer to outside and vice versa. If you want to get your best eleven on the field, having the ability to interchange an inside or outside backer helps with depth as injuries occur. With the type of player we recruit at outside backer we've been fortunate to move some of them to safety when needed and some of our safeties to outside backer. Whether the flexibility for these position changes is a necessity or a luxury, it's an advantage either way. "
"With high tech information now available to us we've seen offenses evolve like never before. You no longer have to travel to another school and visit for weeks like Bear Bryant did when he installed the wishbone formation that Texas was using in the late 60's and early 70's. I see old wing-T misdirection and sweeps, variations of the power I schemes, triple option concepts, and west coast passing traits all coming out of a no huddle spread formation. The NCAA Championship game between Auburn and Oregon combined two explosive offenses that averaged over 40 points a game for the year. I've always believed running the football is essential in winning championships. On the year, Auburn averaged 284 yds. and Oregon 286 yds. on the ground. Those are good numbers. Each offense was diverse enough to overcome large deficits against quality opponents on their way to the championship game. Oregon threw for 244 yds. a game and Auburn averaged 214 yds. on the year. The misdirections and ball fakes that keep defenses on their heels combined with option plays and quick throws to speedy receivers create a dilemma for defenses. If you bring extra defenders into the box in order to attack this style offense, QB's have an easier time throwing from the shotgun to receivers that have out leveraged their defenders. Wider splits from these receivers usually allow QB's to see which defender will give up the most leverage before the ball is ever snapped. This lends toward shorter high percentage throws that easily raise completion percentages. So how do you stop these types of diverse, balanced offense
At Wofford, we determined that we were better at defending wing-T plays and option schemes from a 50 alignment. Using 3-4 personnel allowed us to put faster defenders on the field. For example, our defensive ends align over the offensive tackles. They rarely get double teamed so the higher priority for us is their quickness. Quick hands and feet make better pass rushers. Many of the offensive linemen we play against today are three hundred pounds or more. This past season our defensive ends weighed two hundred and thirty pounds. Their speed and quickness allowed us to not only rush the passer better but to gain leverage vs. cutoff or reach blocks. We get off those blocks quicker than if we played with heavier, slower footed defensive linemen. Our pursuit against scrambling QB's and receiver screens is better with athletic type ends that can run and almost always their stamina into the fourth quarter is better than a bigger lineman. I don't believe a bigger defensive end that weighs an additional thirty or forty pounds will put fear into an opposing lineman. An offensive lineman fears the guy that is too quick and athletic to block. No doubt the bigger and stronger you can get an athletic, quick end the better, but everyone is looking for that type of guy. If you settle for a smaller frame then you need to help him vs. the combination or double team blocks. We do this by not asking him to play down in the gap between the guard and tackle where he may be double teamed and knocked off the line into a scraping linebacker. We align him in a head up position on the tackle where double teams are less likely to happen. Our ends can be linebacker type bodies that play with their hand down. In the last eleven years we've had an All-Conference end eight times.
Our nose aligns over the center. This is the one defensive lineman that size matters to us. We still want good feet and lateral quickness but he will be doubled by the center and guard on the majority of plays. He must maintain his gap integrity without being knocked off the line of scrimmage. He must be quick enough to penetrate into our opponent's backfield if he gets a reach block from the center or scoop block from the guard. Our nose may be the most critical position in our defense. Finding a bigger guy that can still move quickly and with good balance is the hardest player for us to recruit. In an even front you need two of those guys. In an odd front you just need one of those guys on the field. Eight of the last eleven years we've had an All-Conference nose with several of those gaining All-American honors. Jack Teachey coaches our Defensive Line and has coached sixteen All-Conference defensive linemen in the last eleven years with six All-Americans.
Another reason we play a 3-4 front is that offenses don't easily distinguish which gap our nose or ends are playing. There is a distinct advantage to playing a front with a built in disguise. Our three defensive linemen have been very successful beating blocks and creating pressure out of this front. To complement our disguise up front we use two outside linebackers that stem in and out of the tackle box. Offenses have to account for either or both outside backers rushing from a protection standpoint and the QB must take into consideration the drop of either or both outside backers. Going back to the original concept of getting the quicker more athletic guys on the field, we recruit body types more similar to safeties than backers. There are a lot of guys out there that fit that mold. We are a school of about 1400 students with academic requirements that fall somewhere between the service academies and Ivey League schools. Finding the right fit for Wofford is essential to our success. We expand our recruiting pool by playing with four linebackers. In the recruiting process we can choose between fullbacks, running backs, safeties, or fast linebackers. When many defenses are turning to nickel and dime packages, we are able to leave our base personnel in the game vs. three or four wide-outs. Practice opportunities are maximized by playing with the same personnel. Blitz packages are easier to execute with the extra stand up player and pursuit turns up a notch with the faster players on the field. Nate Fuqua coaches our outside linebackers. He is a former Wofford All-American and four times All-Conference player. He is in the Wofford Athletics Hall of Fame.
Our inside backers generally are a little bigger than our outside backers. They take on blocks from linemen and backs just as our outside backers do, but usually in tighter space. We've been fortunate over the years to be able to move an inside backer to outside and vice versa. If you want to get your best eleven on the field, having the ability to interchange an inside or outside backer helps with depth as injuries occur. With the type of player we recruit at outside backer we've been fortunate to move some of them to safety when needed and some of our safeties to outside backer. Whether the flexibility for these position changes is a necessity or a luxury, it's an advantage either way. "
Jmonty71
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Thanks... I am unfamiliar with this one. 4-3's... Ran it in school. Played it. I totally understand it. 3-4?? Not so much. I know it requires some gifted LBs and a space hogging NT. Other than that? Not sure. I hope it's better than CAG's version.
danny daniel
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The 3-4 Woody plays is an update of the 5-4 made famous by Bud Wilkenson at Oklahoma in the 50's and tweaked by USC in 60's and used by many coaches in the 70's and 80's before the pros made the 4-3 popular. Over the years the OLB's and DB's have adapted to the more spreaded field passing game but the basics of the 3-4 are quite old.
We got a new HS coach in 1958 and a new D, a 5-2 with a rover and 3 deep and this D has transitioned to Woody's 3-4 (using more line stunts and slants and specialized hybred athletes at OLB). Main difference is nomenclature: The old DT's are now DE's , old DE's are OLB's, and the old rover is now the SS. I coached the 5-2 with a rover for 25 years and I could easily adjust to the Woody 3-4 which I really like.
1939hotmagic
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Just a recent example of a program shifting from 4-3 to 3-4 defense . . . no big data point, just an item of passing interest:
Last year, a new DC was brought in to change the defense at Western Illinois from a 4-3 to a 3-4. A solid 2017 season followed, an 8-4 record (including a 12-24 loss to eventual FCS champ NDSU) with a first round loss in the FSC playoffs (19-21 to Weber State), and senior LB Brett Taylor narrowly missed winning the Buck Buchanan Award as best FCS defensive player.
From last August . . .
http://www.ncaa.com/news/football/a...llinois-hopes-switch-3-4-defense-wreaks-havoc
Last year, a new DC was brought in to change the defense at Western Illinois from a 4-3 to a 3-4. A solid 2017 season followed, an 8-4 record (including a 12-24 loss to eventual FCS champ NDSU) with a first round loss in the FSC playoffs (19-21 to Weber State), and senior LB Brett Taylor narrowly missed winning the Buck Buchanan Award as best FCS defensive player.
From last August . . .
http://www.ncaa.com/news/football/a...llinois-hopes-switch-3-4-defense-wreaks-havoc
YJMD
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Woody's language both includes the pivotal nature of the nose as far as 0-technique, size, quickness, ability to draw double-teams, and penetrating ability. However, it also states language about disguising which gap the DL is responsible for, including the nose. So, the NT will line up over the center but will not necessarily have 2-gap responsibility. Him playing 1-gap responsibility without declaring which gap via alignment is pivotal. While it's true that the NT is the most critical defensive player, he also has an advantage relative to other DL when lining up over center. The center has the responsibility to snap the ball and thus is in worse blocking position than the rest of the OL. This is why you double-team the nose tackle and not just because he's a gifted player. However, if the NT is going to use quickness and slant to one gap or another, picking a double-team is not so trivial because you won't know which side the block will have to come from.
1939hotmagic
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Just for future reference -- because I believe the first year or two under the new DC will be implementing the basics, not exploring many "exotic" variations off the 3-4 theme and scheme -- here's the tale of a wrinkle used by the Dallas Cowboys to confuse New England back in 2015, albeit the ruse only worked for the first half: A 3-2-6 defense. (No, I have no idea if Woody occasionally uses the 3-2-6 as a situational scheme, but it could be a logical variation of the 3-4.)
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/10/11/onfoot/P3fbBAhnZe6rTXz6aN4tfM/story.html
The Cowboys sacked Brady five times in the first half, though the Patriots pulled away in the second half.
Not that the 3-2-6 isn't rolled out in the college ranks from time to time as well:
http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_919974bd-521c-57b0-8627-c0873aec0f6a.html And Venables at Clemson loves to use it, his version of the "dime," on third downs.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/10/11/onfoot/P3fbBAhnZe6rTXz6aN4tfM/story.html
The Cowboys sacked Brady five times in the first half, though the Patriots pulled away in the second half.
Not that the 3-2-6 isn't rolled out in the college ranks from time to time as well:
http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/sports/lsu/article_919974bd-521c-57b0-8627-c0873aec0f6a.html And Venables at Clemson loves to use it, his version of the "dime," on third downs.
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ilovetheoption
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if his overall philosophy has remained the same, I expect ASA at DE, and not OLB as I had initially anticipated.
I also expect guys like Oliver and Showell to end up at LB.