2016 Class Analysis + Player Ranking

[Techster]

Good list. CCG found some very good talent.

Now here is another part of the equation. CPJ claims that when he arrived at Tech we were only graduating 51% of our players. Now that we graduate over 90% of our players is that also part of the recruiting matrix? My perception is that APR has become increasingly more strict than even a few years ago. We know that O'Leary would not be able to recruit the same way today at Tech that he did back when he was coach. Would the same be true for Gailey now? I don't know, just asking.

I think CPJ certainly deserves a lot of credit for getting our graduation and APR rates higher...but what's being left out of the conversation is graduation and APR rates have risen across the board at pretty much all schools. The reason? Because no school or coach wants to lose scholarships or have their program penalized by the NCAA:

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/student-athletes-earn-diplomas-record-rate

How would O'Leary have done under the same circumstances at GT? Who knows, but he certainly would not have just paid lip service to APR requirement and grad rates, as evidence by his tenure at UCF:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/spor...rts-graduation-rates-1030-20141029-story.html

UCF's football team didn't make the Top 25 teams ranked by the college-playoff committee, but its 90 percent graduation rate ranked it No. 10 in the nation and No. 3 among public schools.

"Coach [George] O'Leary doesn't play games when it comes to academics," said Kimya Massey, UCF's associate athletic director for academic services. "When your most high-profile sport and most at-risk sport is actually one of your leading sports, it sets the tone for everybody else."

Now we can discuss whether his classroom results would have been the same at a more academically rigorous school like GT, but the point is the benchmark APR and GSR scores were a priority for O'Leary at UCF, and I highly suspect it would be no different for him if he were at GT. Remember, APR and GSR rates are now the direct responsibility of the athletic department, and not just the each individual sport. It's doubtful that GT would let any coach hurt our programs to a degree that some of us want to infer O'Leary would in today's environment.

 

[tech_wreck47]

I think this list is pretty clear on top recruits and gem development. His nfl list is not even comparable to pauls. I dont want to re hash this comparison again. But his top talent was far better in his 5-6 years than pauls has been to now.

Calvin johnson
Bebe
Dwyer
D Morgan
M Burnett
M johnson
D richard

Gem category
Mike cox
Wheeler
guyton
Anoai
Vance walker
Andrew gardner

Wrotto (although not a gem kinda in between)
Mike matthews
Choice all in between guys

I cant recall one 2 star recruit paul made into a multi year starter in the nfl. Or even in the nfl. Maybe jemea thomas? But he hasnt seen a snap or active roster.

Of course chan couldnt coach for crap. So field production was frustrating. But you cant debate his ability to put good guys through our program in his tenure. But even he didnt land enough d1 p5 competitive kids. He did a better job with his gems though. Missed on some too.

I think Adam Gotsis will be Paul's 2 star, and he will be better than any of those other 2 stars imo, only time will tell.

 

[AE 87]

I think CPJ certainly deserves a lot of credit for getting our graduation and APR rates higher...but what's being left out of the conversation is graduation and APR rates have risen across the board at pretty much all schools. The reason? Because no school or coach wants to lose scholarships or have their program penalized by the NCAA:

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/student-athletes-earn-diplomas-record-rate

How would O'Leary have done under the same circumstances at GT? Who knows, but he certainly would not have just paid lip service to APR requirement and grad rates, as evidence by his tenure at UCF:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/spor...rts-graduation-rates-1030-20141029-story.html

UCF's football team didn't make the Top 25 teams ranked by the college-playoff committee, but its 90 percent graduation rate ranked it No. 10 in the nation and No. 3 among public schools.

"Coach [George] O'Leary doesn't play games when it comes to academics," said Kimya Massey, UCF's associate athletic director for academic services. "When your most high-profile sport and most at-risk sport is actually one of your leading sports, it sets the tone for everybody else."

Now we can discuss whether his classroom results would have been the same at a more academically rigorous school like GT, but the point is the benchmark APR and GSR scores were a priority for O'Leary at UCF, and I highly suspect it would be no different for him if he were at GT. Remember, APR and GSR rates are now the direct responsibility of the athletic department, and not just the each individual sport. It's doubtful that GT would let any coach hurt our programs to a degree that some of us want to infer O'Leary would in today's environment.

Fwiw, I don't think anyone doubts that Ross and OLeary could've fielded teams that met APR etc. The unknown is whether those teams would've been as successful.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I think this list is pretty clear on top recruits and gem development. His nfl list is not even comparable to pauls. I dont want to re hash this comparison again. But his top talent was far better in his 5-6 years than pauls has been to now.

Calvin johnson
Bebe
Dwyer
D Morgan
M Burnett
M johnson
D richard

Gem category
Mike cox
Wheeler
guyton
Anoai
Vance walker
Andrew gardner

Wrotto (although not a gem kinda in between)
Mike matthews
Choice all in between guys

I cant recall one 2 star recruit paul made into a multi year starter in the nfl. Or even in the nfl. Maybe jemea thomas? But he hasnt seen a snap or active roster.

Of course chan couldnt coach for crap. So field production was frustrating. But you cant debate his ability to put good guys through our program in his tenure. But even he didnt land enough d1 p5 competitive kids. He did a better job with his gems though. Missed on some too.

How about Sed in the gem catagory? Kmike would be in there, too.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I liked Chan as a recruiter of hidden gems. Problem is he had too many 2 stars that did nothing at all. Who can forget I-Perfection Harris. CPJ has had less highs and low and more middles in recruiting. The ironic thing is the table is flipped over when looking at results. Recordwise, CPJ has had highs and lows while Chan had nothing but middles.

 

[PBR549]

Chan got fired, George moved on. The bottom line is in today's day and time unless something changes at the Institute "it is what it is." We need to realize that we will have ups and downs. The type of athletes we can get are about what we are getting. If you believe there is someone out there who can do significantly better I believe you are mistaken. If there is, I think that most certainly he would be a step down as far as coaching them up. The best chance we have is to stay with what we have, the same staff that gave us 11 wins just 1 year ago. Let them work. Put the pressure on the hill to make things better. or not? If we don't want to do things differently then we have what we have whoever is the coach.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I think CPJ certainly deserves a lot of credit for getting our graduation and APR rates higher...but what's being left out of the conversation is graduation and APR rates have risen across the board at pretty much all schools. The reason? Because no school or coach wants to lose scholarships or have their program penalized by the NCAA:

http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/student-athletes-earn-diplomas-record-rate

How would O'Leary have done under the same circumstances at GT? Who knows, but he certainly would not have just paid lip service to APR requirement and grad rates, as evidence by his tenure at UCF:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/spor...rts-graduation-rates-1030-20141029-story.html

UCF's football team didn't make the Top 25 teams ranked by the college-playoff committee, but its 90 percent graduation rate ranked it No. 10 in the nation and No. 3 among public schools.

"Coach [George] O'Leary doesn't play games when it comes to academics," said Kimya Massey, UCF's associate athletic director for academic services. "When your most high-profile sport and most at-risk sport is actually one of your leading sports, it sets the tone for everybody else."

Now we can discuss whether his classroom results would have been the same at a more academically rigorous school like GT, but the point is the benchmark APR and GSR scores were a priority for O'Leary at UCF, and I highly suspect it would be no different for him if he were at GT. Remember, APR and GSR rates are now the direct responsibility of the athletic department, and not just the each individual sport. It's doubtful that GT would let any coach hurt our programs to a degree that some of us want to infer O'Leary would in today's environment.

Good to know.

Side note. I thought I read somewhere that Alabama's graduation rates were not that great but that they got around that by having a good APR. The low graduation rate is not a problem because they have a good number of players leave early for the NFL or transfer or get injured or lose their scholarships. Presumably up till then these students were showing progress. Again, don't know if this is true but I read it on the internet somewhere, y0u know, where all things are true.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Chan got fired, George moved on. The bottom line is in today's day and time unless something changes at the Institute "it is what it is." We need to realize that we will have ups and downs. The type of athletes we can get are about what we are getting. If you believe there is someone out there who can do significantly better I believe you are mistaken. If there is, I think that most certainly he would be a step down as far as coaching them up. The best chance we have is to stay with what we have, the same staff that gave us 11 wins just 1 year ago. Let them work. Put the pressure on the hill to make things better. or not? If we don't want to do things differently then we have what we have whoever is the coach.

We have at least one test case of how coaches do at Tech as compared to somewhere else. Bill Curry had unremarkable results at Tech, good results at Alabama and lousy results at Kentucky. His firing at Alabama was a little bit like Richt's firing at Georgia. Even though he was a winner there, the expectations were much higher and his losing to Auburn twice (plus the hatred of some on the board toward all things Tech) got him fired. But point is, he had good results at a school with lower standards and a huge athletic budget and average to poor results at Tech where the hill is a lot steeper to climb.

 

[up state jacket]

Two words unfortunately sum up Chan's tenure at Ma Tech and those are Reggie Ball. Four freaking years of that mess is still giving me sleepless nights. The only thing Reggie did was make Calvin look even more superhuman than we could have imagined!!

 

[SidewalkJacket]

I liked Chan as a recruiter of hidden gems. Problem is he had too many 2 stars that did nothing at all. Who can forget I-Perfection Harris. CPJ has had less highs and low and more middles in recruiting. The ironic thing is the table is flipped over when looking at results. Recordwise, CPJ has had highs and lows while Chan had nothing but middles.

This. So much this. I also like where CPJ is headed with hit rate on his commits. We aren't seeing total non-contributers as often. This is huge, given the inherent challenges we face in replacing talent. I agree that we need some 1-8 types on a more regular basis.

 

[redmule]

Two words unfortunately sum up Chan's tenure at Ma Tech and those are Reggie Ball. Four freaking years of that mess is still giving me sleepless nights. The only thing Reggie did was make Calvin look even more superhuman than we could have imagined!!

AMEN. The fact that CPJ essentially told Lee to look elsewhere while Gailey stuck with Ball for four years as his completion percentage went down every year (with Calvin on the team!!!) tells you who is the better coach.

I go along with Gump. How well you recruited has to be a function of your needs. Had you rather have had the three DT's that are all three star or three AB that are 4 star. A no brainer with what we currently have on the team. Of course your rankings would then be higher with the A Backs. uga can pad their stats by taking a couple of 5 star RB's every year, but most will be bench warmers behind the next Herschel. Those high recruiting rankings and no championships will get your fired, won't they Rev? An Orange Bowl win with two and three star players gets you a big raise and extension.

 

[takethepoints]

AMEN. The fact that CPJ essentially told Lee to look elsewhere while Gailey stuck with Ball for four years as his completion percentage went down every year (with Calvin on the team!!!) tells you who is the better coach.

Ball was a very physically talented QB playing for a coach (Gailey) who couldn't abide taking risks on O. Reg's completion rate went down every year because Gailey was more concerned about his interceptions then his completions. When he was a freshman Reg forced balls all the time, with varying results. Chan hated turnovers with a vengeance and made him reform. Gailey teams had a simple formula: a) get a lead b) play good D c) get the ball back and sit on it like a slug. This meant, above everything, that you don't turn the ball over. And Reg paid attention to his coaches. He was perfectly able to get higher QB ratings, but he also wanted to start.

On one of our teams today, Reg would be a world beater. Too bad.

 

[gtpi]

GREAT work! These are the kind of posts I come to this site for. However, I completely disagree on Camp. I don't think he's maximized out his physical potential at all. He may grow into a LB/S hybrid type player, or just be a monstrously strong WR. I am not worried about his speed in the least. Smelter was not super fast, nor was DT before him. Corners blanket guys who can't run routes. Now, Camp may or may not turn into a great route runner, but he's got all the tools to get separation (just maybe not on a straight fly route). I think this guy's potential is through the roof, especially after reading coaches' quotes and finding out his football inexperience. I pegged him as one that I think may get on the field sooner than later.

all things considered i would like to know how well he blocks as that will be his main priority. not catching fbs.

far as speed goes. jerry rice was only a 4.5 40 yard guy.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Gailey teams had a simple formula: a) get a lead b) play good D c) get the ball back and sit on it like a slug.

This is oh so my memory of things. I hated his style of football. It was play not to lose rather than play to win, if you will excuse the cliche.

 

[redmule]

Ball was a very physically talented QB playing for a coach (Gailey) who couldn't abide taking risks on O. Reg's completion rate went down every year because Gailey was more concerned about his interceptions then his completions. When he was a freshman Reg forced balls all the time, with varying results. Chan hated turnovers with a vengeance and made him reform. Gailey teams had a simple formula: a) get a lead b) play good D c) get the ball back and sit on it like a slug. This meant, above everything, that you don't turn the ball over. And Reg paid attention to his coaches. He was perfectly able to get higher QB ratings, but he also wanted to start.

On one of our teams today, Reg would be a world beater. Too bad.

The game where Reggie Ball trotted out the back of the end zone under little to no pressure to give VT a safety because he wasn't paying attention to where he was on the field is the day he should have been benched and never allowed to play QB again. I know Ball gave his all, but Chan should have realized that a different solution was needed at QB.

 

[4shotB]

Reggie's last year was 2006. The statue of limitations on Reggie bashing will (hopefully) expire this year. A little past due imo. I hate to pretend to be a moderator, but this has gone on for far too long. end of rant.

 

[DvilleJacket]

The state we live in is our own worst enemy and what surrounds us. This has been SEC country for a while now. Put Tech in another region and I believe we get more higher recruits interested in coming here. When all your teammates are foaming at the mouth about the mighty secpn, you ain't going to get much interest except from the athlete looking further down the road.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Reggie's last year was 2006. The statue of limitations on Reggie bashing will (hopefully) expire this year. A little past due imo. I hate to pretend to be a moderator, but this has gone on for far too long. end of rant.

Thank you. Bashing a former Tech student athlete makes me really uncomfortable. He was not my favorite quarterback by any means but he gave his best.

As for his gaffs, some of those can be explained by at least two different head traumas that today would have kept him out of several games, one of which occurred against the mutts when he was clobbered out of bounds, with no penalty I might add.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

The state we live in is our own worst enemy and what surrounds us. This has been SEC country for a while now. Put Tech in another region and I believe we get more higher recruits interested in coming here. When all your teammates are foaming at the mouth about the mighty secpn, you ain't going to get much interest except from the athlete looking further down the road.

Exactly this. I have argued this before but have Stanford and Tech switch geographical locations and just see who recruits better then.

I better stop before I get to really ranting on how even Atlanta is now referred to as the heart of the SEC.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Reggie was also hampered by the fact that there was nobody better at qb than he. For all the guys who rave about Chan's recruiting, he was a horrible recruiter of qb's. By the time he recruited a good one, Renfree, it was too late. Threet transferred out because he missed his gf and ended up having a lack luster career anyway.