Wake Forest has shown us the way forward.

[Randy Carson]

How the Run Pass Option and Slow Mesh are run at Wake Forest



How Wake Forest has overcome its "small school" limitations.

Call me a zealous convert, but I like what I've seen of the Slow-Mesh RPO so far.

 

[g0lftime]

They have been running it with multiple QB's with success. I am surprised teams haven't figured out how to stop it or at least slow it down. Helps to also have a good passing QB if he pulls the handoff. Hartman is a very good QB. Isn't their RB Ellison a transfer from GT. He has done well there.

 

[gville_jacket]

They have been running it with multiple QB's with success. I am surprised teams haven't figured out how to stop it or at least slow it down. Helps to also have a good passing QB if he pulls the handoff. Hartman is a very good QB. Isn't their RB Ellison a transfer from GT. He has done well there.

Different Ellison. We did have a RB named Ellison who transferred out but not to Wake

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Under CPJ, when we had an outstanding option quarterback our offense was cooking too! Wake forest is good all the way around on our fence though. Their OL is well coached and execute the offense very well, same for their backs and receivers.

 

[iceeater1969]

Under CPJ, when we had an outstanding option quarterback our offense was cooking too! Wake forest is good all the way around on our fence though. Their OL is well coached and execute the offense very well, same for their backs and receivers.

Remember, after 14 u r the guy that warned us about the plug and play fallacy.

Your point was and is that both ol and skill players need to mature at the same time under a coach that can teach his scheme.

We thought that in 14 we would just add some young new backs, but that didnt work.

With Gibbs arrival we plugged in senior portal ol guys over a group of injured but experienced ol guys. It was fun wTching gibbs, but they all went away.

So far thisxyear Key is giving playing time to a very young group of ol guys.
They are about 1 yesr younger than the dl guys who are showing violence in their push.

I think we can start to grow with this ol group and be damn good in a few years

 

[whitegoldsphinx]

Is Wake Forest the new Stanford on this forum now that Stanford is no longer a winning team? Why can't we be more like Wake? Check back in 5 years and Wake will have fallen off. They have caught lightning in a bottle for now, but keeping a run like that going at their level is tough when your roster changes every year. The big boys reload and the rest of us remember those special years when the team came together and had a great season.

 

[GTBandit22]

I’m of the mind that it isn’t what’s for dinner, but the chef cooking it.
I want someone that can move the ball and adjust their system in game and for the personnel they have. I want someone that can train a QB to play in his system and call plays to their strengths. I want someone who can recruit players that can move the ball, stars be damned. I want someone who can develop those same players.

This is a fine system. The RPO spread is also nigh unstoppable with the QB making correct decisions most of the time too. How many 300+ yard passing games did scrawny Nick Foles have a few years back with the Eagles?

Wake is great right now because their QB is a hell of a player and drops dimes. Their offense was good with the previous QB too, but not the juggernaut it is now. I’m of the mind that their success the last few years has less to do with the long mesh and more with a great college QB and OC. Kudos to the staff for locating and coaching a player to that level.

If there is anything to be said for doing something non-mainstream or a “David” strategy is that you may be recruiting for body types/skill sets that others don’t rank as highly. PJ could go for agile tackles that may not measure in the wingspan that others look for, or a dynamic running qb with less than stellar passing tape. Just like Wake probably prioritized an accurate and decisive passer vs arm strength, size, athletic ability.

 

[GT33]

Is Wake Forest the new Stanford on this forum now that Stanford is no longer a winning team? Why can't we be more like Wake? Check back in 5 years and Wake will have fallen off. They have caught lightning in a bottle for now, but keeping a run like that going at their level is tough when your roster changes every year. The big boys reload and the rest of us remember those special years when the team came together and had a great season.

Stanford's having some bad years but they'll be ok. Same goes for Northwestern. Teams like those plus Wake & even dook are never going to be perennial juggernaughts, but will always have periods where everything comes together. Laregly, it's tied to having an adequate number of role players coupled with great QB play along with 2-3 other playmakers/ We're in the same boat as all of them. To think that somehow we're going to be a top program for decades flies in the fact of what GT football has delivered in the last 100 years. As you said, it's even tougher now when top talent can leave for exposure on the national stage along with NIL $$ at the drop of a hat.

 

[Randy Carson]

I'm pleased to note that there is some (begrudging) acknowledgement that Clawson & Co's unique offense has leveled the playing field with the Big Dogs and given them a winning advantage against everyone else. We had that under CPJ, and we need to find it again.

Trying to run with the Dogs will have us eyeing the porch longingly.

 

[Techster]

I’m of the mind that it isn’t what’s for dinner, but the chef cooking it.
I want someone that can move the ball and adjust their system in game and for the personnel they have. I want someone that can train a QB to play in his system and call plays to their strengths. I want someone who can recruit players that can move the ball, stars be damned. I want someone who can develop those same players.

This is a fine system. The RPO spread is also nigh unstoppable with the QB making correct decisions most of the time too. How many 300+ yard passing games did scrawny Nick Foles have a few years back with the Eagles?

Wake is great right now because their QB is a hell of a player and drops dimes. Their offense was good with the previous QB too, but not the juggernaut it is now. I’m of the mind that their success the last few years has less to do with the long mesh and more with a great college QB and OC. Kudos to the staff for locating and coaching a player to that level.

If there is anything to be said for doing something non-mainstream or a “David” strategy is that you may be recruiting for body types/skill sets that others don’t rank as highly. PJ could go for agile tackles that may not measure in the wingspan that others look for, or a dynamic running qb with less than stellar passing tape. Just like Wake probably prioritized an accurate and decisive passer vs arm strength, size, athletic ability.

Clawson always has good QBs. At what point do you say Wake Forest and Clawson know how to recruit and develop talent? Wake is a LOT like GT. Not only do they have to find a way to recruit well to their system, but they also need to develop players. Not many 4 and 5 star players are walking through that door and starting on Day 1. Hartman is a good QB, but so was Jamie Newman before him. Mitch Griffis, Hartman's backup, looks to be a good QB that will replace Hartman once he's moved onto the NFL.

Ever notice that good coaches always seem to have good QBs? Maybe it's just as much to do with the coach and their ability to develop as it is their QBs.

 

[Fatmike91]

I'm pleased to note that there is some (begrudging) acknowledgement that Clawson & Co's unique offense has leveled the playing field with the Big Dogs and given them a winning advantage against everyone else. We had that under CPJ, and we need to find it again.

Trying to run with the Dogs will have us eyeing the porch longingly.

They still get gobbled up by a super strong defensive line. Scheme can only do so much.

What I like about what they are doing is the reads seem slower/easier than some of the stuff we used to do. I am amazed by the QB doing 3 post snap reads.

I also like that I can look at the field and make the same reads. If I see it (I'm not an expert), you can train a kid on the field to see it.

/

 

[Randy Carson]

So, a thought came to me; first the background:

1 Samuel 17:37-40​

Saul said to David, “Go, and the Lord be with you.”​

​

38 Then Saul dressed David in his own tunic. He put a coat of armor on him and a bronze helmet on his head. 39 David fastened on his sword over the tunic and tried walking around, because he was not used to them.​

​

“I cannot go in these,” he said to Saul, “because I am not used to them.” So he took them off. 40 Then he took his staff in his hand, chose five smooth stones from the stream, put them in the pouch of his shepherd’s bag and, with his sling in his hand, approached [Goliath].​

You know the rest of the story. Using his sling and a stone, David slew Goliath. Had he gone out to battle using the same weapons that Goliath used, he would have failed.

Tech, Wake, Duke and all the smaller schools cannot out-Goliath the giants. We have to rely on unorthodox approaches if we are to win the day.

 

[LongforDodd]

...

Tech, Wake, Duke and all the smaller schools cannot out-Goliath the giants. We have to rely on unorthodox approaches if we are to win the day.

Not directed at you, per se, but the root cause of most of this is due to the courses of study that are available to our SA's vs most everyone else's.

 

[southernhive]

So, a thought came to me; first the background:

1 Samuel 17:37-40​

Saul said to David, “Go, and the Lord be with you.”​

​

38 Then Saul dressed David in his own tunic. He put a coat of armor on him and a bronze helmet on his head. 39 David fastened on his sword over the tunic and tried walking around, because he was not used to them.​

​

“I cannot go in these,” he said to Saul, “because I am not used to them.” So he took them off. 40 Then he took his staff in his hand, chose five smooth stones from the stream, put them in the pouch of his shepherd’s bag and, with his sling in his hand, approached [Goliath].​

You know the rest of the story. Using his sling and a stone, David slew Goliath. Had he gone out to battle using the same weapons that Goliath used, he would have failed.

Tech, Wake, Duke and all the smaller schools cannot out-Goliath the giants. We have to rely on unorthodox approaches if we are to win the day.

Amen brother.

 

[Randy Carson]

Not directed at you, per se, but the root cause of most of this is due to the courses of study that are available to our SA's vs most everyone else's.

I understand.

At Tech, Rocks, Socks and Crocks for Jocks* are single course electives...not majors.


*For the sidewalk fans among us, those are/were the intro courses for Geology, Textiles Engineering and Ceramics Engineering, respectively.

 

[GTBandit22]

So, a thought came to me; first the background:

1 Samuel 17:37-40​

Saul said to David, “Go, and the Lord be with you.”​

​

38 Then Saul dressed David in his own tunic. He put a coat of armor on him and a bronze helmet on his head. 39 David fastened on his sword over the tunic and tried walking around, because he was not used to them.​

​

“I cannot go in these,” he said to Saul, “because I am not used to them.” So he took them off. 40 Then he took his staff in his hand, chose five smooth stones from the stream, put them in the pouch of his shepherd’s bag and, with his sling in his hand, approached [Goliath].​

You know the rest of the story. Using his sling and a stone, David slew Goliath. Had he gone out to battle using the same weapons that Goliath used, he would have failed.

Tech, Wake, Duke and all the smaller schools cannot out-Goliath the giants. We have to rely on unorthodox approaches if we are to win the day.

An oldie but a goldie:

David strategies and Goliath strategies

Malcolm Gladwell's new New Yorker piece is called "How David Beats Goliath," and professes to describe what strategies underdogs -- or "Dav...

smartfootball.blogspot.com

 

[LongforDodd]

I understand.

At Tech, Rocks, Socks and Crocks for Jocks* are single course electives...not majors.


*For the sidewalk fans among us, those are the intro courses for Geology, Textiles Engineering and Ceramics Engineering, respectively.

I recently was watching turner classic movies. They were killing time until the top of the hour and because they were going to show a sci fi movie they ran a filler piece about sci fi. In this filler piece they showed an interview with…get this…a GT professor who teaches Science Fiction Studies. I about fell off the couch.

 

[whitegoldsphinx]

I recently was watching turner classic movies. They were killing time until the top of the hour and because they were going to show a sci fi movie they ran a filler piece about sci fi. In this filler piece they showed an interview with…get this…a GT professor who teaches Science Fiction Studies. I about fell off the couch.

Not quite the same, but I took the Science Fiction english class my graduating senior quarter. We met once a week in a bar (PJ Haley's Nest). You had to read a book per week though. Not sure how long it was before GT decided that having a class in a bar while drinking was probably not a good idea, but I enjoyed it while it lasted.

 

[slugboy]

Not quite the same, but I took the Science Fiction english class my graduating senior quarter. We met once a week in a bar (PJ Haley's Nest). You had to read a book per week though. Not sure how long it was before GT decided that having a class in a bar while drinking was probably not a good idea, but I enjoyed it while it lasted.

1985, I think. If not then, pretty soon after.

 

[bobongo]

Call me a zealous convert, but I like what I've seen of the Slow-Mesh RPO so far.

I do, too, but anything called "Slow-Mesh" isn't going to work behind our offensive line:

Film Room: The infamous Wake Forest slow mesh - The Vanderbilt Hustler

The Vanderbilt Commodores are 2-0 for the first time since 2018, and fans have a real cause for optimism for the first time in the Clark Lea era. But before anyone gets too excited, the Commodores will face their first real test of the season against No. 23 Wake Forest on Saturday, Sept. 6. The

vanderbilthustler.com

"There isn’t a single team in the country that employs the same offensive style as the Wake Forest Demon Deacons. Over the last few seasons Wake Forest’s offense has become notorious for its confounding RPO (run-pass option) system known as the “slow mesh.” Whereas the typical RPO lasts about 1 second from the quarterback’s read to decision, Wake Forest’s average RPO lasts closer to 2.5 seconds. Instead of quickly reading the defense then making a snap decision, Wake’s quarterback begins the handoff process first then reads the defense while holding the ball against the running back’s chest. This delayed convergence, or “mesh,” between quarterback and running back led to the name “slow mesh.”