The big picture

Ramble1885

Ramble1885

proud sidewalk fan
Messages
3,238
Location
High Point, NC
Made this chart, y’all probably will enjoy
B82880B4-ACB9-435C-9390-C7F2F25B6BE0.jpeg
 
4shotB

4shotB

Helluva Engineer
Retired Staff
Messages
6,955
I am probably overlooking something obvious, but what are the Y-axis values? Oops nevermind.

What is missing 9imo) is these values are somewhat meaningless as absolute values. A .600 record in the ACC in 1987 is not the same as .600 in 2025.
 

GT33

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,773
4shotB said:
I am probably overlooking something obvious, but what are the Y-axis values? Oops nevermind.

What is missing 9imo) is these values are somewhat meaningless as absolute values. A .600 record in the ACC in 1987 is not the same as .600 in 2025.
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We've been over .500 in the ACC 9 times in 40 years. I'll take .600 in the ACC any year. Do that on a consistent basis, we'd be in heaven.
 
4shotB

4shotB

Helluva Engineer
Retired Staff
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6,955
Agreed. But my bigger point was that the percentages aren’t really apples to apples.
 

MtnWasp

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2,286
GT33 said:
We've been over .500 in the ACC 9 times in 40 years. I'll take .600 in the ACC any year. Do that on a consistent basis, we'd be in heaven.
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6 times by Cremins including three 8-6 years in a row between '88 and '90 (our finishes in an 8 team ACC was 4th, 5th and 3rd respectively. Here was the 9-5 '86 team and the 13-3 '96 tam that won the ACC. The 11-3 '86 team came in 2nd in the ACC regular season.

Hewitt did it once in '04 at 9-7 with a third place finish.

Pastner did it twice in a row in the '20 and '21 seasons (11-9 and 11-6) for a 5th and 4th place finish in a 15 team ACC. Fans dismiss those two teams and they shouldn't, especially that '21 team. That was a good team!

Additionally, we have finished .500 in conference 8 times. Cremins did it 4 times ('87, '92, '93, '95 for 5th, 4th, 6th, 5th place finish respectively). Hewitt did it three times ('01, '05 and '07 for 5th, 4th and 6th place finishes) , and Stoudamire did it this season for 8th (in an 18 team conference).

So that is 39% of the seasons over 44 ACC seasons that Gt has finished .500 or above.
 
Tommy_Taylor_1972

Tommy_Taylor_1972

GT Athlete
Messages
1,200
With the ACC in the worst position as ever regarding to other conferences, do you think that being at the top of the conference will mean NCAA invites, unless you win the conference championship? If the objective is to get into the NCAA tournament, Tech needs to annually be competitive at least in the top 3 with Duke and UNC. As well, schedule and beat as many high level SEC and Big Ten teams as possible.

Schedule pancake payout home wins will get you very little if you do not do the above. That's what we had to do int early 1970's as a independent to get invites to the 16 team NIT and the 25 team NCAA, play the hard teams all over the country to get notice as an at large bid. That needs to be the mentality now, or join a non-power 6 conference and get and get one of the other 25 automatic NCAA bids. There is no right strategy except to recruit good and trainable players, keep them in school and loyal to teammates and coaching, exhibiting the desire to win every game for the gipper, not for themselves or their future wealth.

With the appetizers and the freedom of movement of players, uncertainty will prevail int he future. Thrive on chaos somehow.
 

MtnWasp

Helluva Engineer
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2,286
"Thrive On Chaos" I love that. With a good graphic, maybe a fractal diagram, that is t-shirt worthy.
 

Root4GT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,025
Tommy_Taylor_1972 said:
With the ACC in the worst position as ever regarding to other conferences, do you think that being at the top of the conference will mean NCAA invites, unless you win the conference championship? If the objective is to get into the NCAA tournament, Tech needs to annually be competitive at least in the top 3 with Duke and UNC. As well, schedule and beat as many high level SEC and Big Ten teams as possible.

Schedule pancake payout home wins will get you very little if you do not do the above. That's what we had to do int early 1970's as a independent to get invites to the 16 team NIT and the 25 team NCAA, play the hard teams all over the country to get notice as an at large bid. That needs to be the mentality now, or join a non-power 6 conference and get and get one of the other 25 automatic NCAA bids. There is no right strategy except to recruit good and trainable players, keep them in school and loyal to teammates and coaching, exhibiting the desire to win every game for the gipper, not for themselves or their future wealth.

With the appetizers and the freedom of movement of players, uncertainty will prevail int he future. Thrive on chaos somehow.
Click to expand...
The Portal will be a necessary way to acquire players as well. Every game in the NCAAT that P5 teams play have transfers that are key players in their rotation.

We will lose key players via the Portsl every years as well. The days of guys staying with one program for 4 years are limited now.

Not as enjoyable as watching guys develop over 4 years as we say with Jose and Moses recently. Money talks and players walk.
 
Tommy_Taylor_1972

Tommy_Taylor_1972

GT Athlete
Messages
1,200
MtnWasp said:
"Thrive On Chaos" I love that. With a good graphic, maybe a fractal diagram, that is t-shirt worthy.
Click to expand...
Industrial management majors at Tech in the 60-70's were taught Peter Drucker's Management by Objectives in Dr. Fulmer's and Adler's classes. We learned to set objectives and plan to meet them. In the 1980-90, along a competing management theory by Tom Peters called Thriving on Chaos, likely because of the S&L and stocked market crashes of the late 80's when nobody met their objectives and planning was in chaos. Legacy managers and corporations had to adjust or be left behind. Some adjusted better than others. Then technology came along creating more chaos. Basketball was no different, with us legacy players having to adjust to a different style of play and coaching and players changing frequently. The objective of a long-time coach being in a tournament with at least twenty games with a twinning conference record was not enough. The chaos continues.
 
iceeater1969

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
11,272
Tommy_Taylor_1972 said:
Industrial management majors at Tech in the 60-70's were taught Peter Drucker's Management by Objectives in Dr. Fulmer's and Adler's classes. We learned to set objectives and plan to meet them. In the 1980-90, along a competing management theory by Tom Peters called Thriving on Chaos, likely because of the S&L and stocked market crashes of the late 80's when nobody met their objectives and planning was in chaos. Legacy managers and corporations had to adjust or be left behind. Some adjusted better than others. Then technology came along creating more chaos. Basketball was no different, with us legacy players having to adjust to a different style of play and coaching and players changing frequently. The objective of a long-time coach being in a tournament with at least twenty games with a twinning conference record was not enough. The chaos continues.
Click to expand...
Would yearly sweet 16 graph by conference be useful to look for patterns in chaos.?

Highest level .power 2 ( big10 and SEC) verses other? Now its P2 at 12 to Other at 4.

We are back to the oldest managnent theory: He who has the Gold Rules.

The P2 tv football money is RAISING thier basketball results.

Now under that level thier are various managment issues.

Until the OTHER as a union
SAYS FP2
OR
Advertisers see drop in eyeballs for the big money final 8 games
P2 RULES
 
stinger78

stinger78

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10,593
Tommy_Taylor_1972 said:
Industrial management majors at Tech in the 60-70's were taught Peter Drucker's Management by Objectives in Dr. Fulmer's and Adler's classes. We learned to set objectives and plan to meet them. In the 1980-90, along a competing management theory by Tom Peters called Thriving on Chaos, likely because of the S&L and stocked market crashes of the late 80's when nobody met their objectives and planning was in chaos. Legacy managers and corporations had to adjust or be left behind. Some adjusted better than others. Then technology came along creating more chaos. Basketball was no different, with us legacy players having to adjust to a different style of play and coaching and players changing frequently. The objective of a long-time coach being in a tournament with at least twenty games with a twinning conference record was not enough. The chaos continues.
Click to expand...
Ah yes, complexity rules. As much as administrators tweaking the course toward objectives, there are the dozens or hundreds of small influences that create the feedback loops that direct organizations. I call it vertical and horizontal leadership. Both are required, and should be understood. The administrative leader must aim the ship toward the objective, but the multiple influencers within the organization will have their say as well. It stops short of boundary with chaos, but complexity will always be present.
 
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