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<blockquote data-quote="AE 87" data-source="post: 158845" data-attributes="member: 195"><p>Yeah, I think the third post was where I stopped too.</p><p></p><p>I'm glad they moved this to the lounge because I didn't want to respond on this topic in a sports forum. But, I did want to respond.</p><p></p><p>First of all, as someone who grew up in the South during the 60s and 70s, I could not agree with you more regarding bigotry in 2015, whether it's against people for their sexual preferences or because they're German. Disgusting is the right word.</p><p></p><p>However, I don't agree with on how you moved from that truth to an apparent dismissal of the significance of the political issues arising from recent discussion of sexual orientation. The recent Supreme Court ruling on same-sex marriage was an assault on the founding political philosophy of our country. I mean that with no hyperbole.</p><p></p><p>Our founding political philosophy was that human rights were natural, whether you believe they came from a creator or not. Furthermore, Natural Rights were guaranteed and protected by Natural Law. These two concepts informed one another. In Natural Law, the connection between sexual activity and reproduction was obvious. People had a Natural Right to marriage because sexual reproduction was how society continues from one generation to the next. Marriage was not about an individual's feeling of self-worth but about family and the context for birth of children.</p><p></p><p>Indeed, the concept of Natural Law in the West developed in concert with the observation of the Law of Nations, that is the observation by Romans that peoples of various societies all shared some common laws, against murder, theft, etc. Well, another law shared by every known society in human history has been the formal official recognition of marriage as the basis of legal family. The words for husband and wife in Ancient Greek were the same as the words for male and female, as we also see in German's Mann und Frau, and old English's Man and Wife. That's why talking about different states having different minimum ages or about laws regarding interracial marriage as previous re-definitions of marriage is a red herring to comfort the ignorant. Marriage has now been redefined. </p><p></p><p>Government has had an interest in promoting marriage because it is in the best interest of children that they grow up in stable two person families. Governments that care about all people as equal, like America believed at its founding, want to promote that context for all children. However, by redefining marriage so that it no longer <em>images</em> the relationship which serves as the basis of biological family, it can no longer serve the purpose for which Government has an interest. Look at what's happened already with the sexual revolution and the legalization of no-fault divorce. The urban and rural poor have been the hardest hit as tax-payer support has actually incentivized the destruction of family, stacking the odds against the next generation. While many single parents do a fantastic job, it is not in the best interest of children to make that the new normal.</p><p></p><p>Moreover, it lays the groundwork for further attack on conservative Christian institutions. In 1983, the SCOTUS ruled that the IRS could remove the tax-exempt status of Bob Jones University because of their stand on interracial marriage. So, with this ruling, the Tax-Exempt status of any Christian University, and perhaps church, which teach that homosexual activity is sinful and that therefore speak against same-sex marriage, is at risk. While Bob Jones was largely alone and had a policy that was not well established nor supported in the Bible of Christian history. The fallout from this decision could strike a significant blow to many parochial schools, grade school through university. The SCOTUS decision allowed that the speech of religious institutions was still protected but that's not the same thing.</p><p></p><p>Finally, the yet little discussed issue arising from this decision is the next sexual orientation which may look for rights, the pedophiles. By granting 14th amendment protection to people based on their sexual orientation, the court implicitly gave that to pedophiles too. Appeals to the interests of the child and consent have always relied on the Natural Law and traditional connection between sexual activity and procreation and consequent family. However, those connections have been eliminated and replaced by a 14th amendment right to dignity owed someone with their sexual orientation.</p><p></p><p>So, you may think that none of this is a big deal. I think you are wrong.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AE 87, post: 158845, member: 195"] Yeah, I think the third post was where I stopped too. I'm glad they moved this to the lounge because I didn't want to respond on this topic in a sports forum. But, I did want to respond. First of all, as someone who grew up in the South during the 60s and 70s, I could not agree with you more regarding bigotry in 2015, whether it's against people for their sexual preferences or because they're German. Disgusting is the right word. However, I don't agree with on how you moved from that truth to an apparent dismissal of the significance of the political issues arising from recent discussion of sexual orientation. The recent Supreme Court ruling on same-sex marriage was an assault on the founding political philosophy of our country. I mean that with no hyperbole. Our founding political philosophy was that human rights were natural, whether you believe they came from a creator or not. Furthermore, Natural Rights were guaranteed and protected by Natural Law. These two concepts informed one another. In Natural Law, the connection between sexual activity and reproduction was obvious. People had a Natural Right to marriage because sexual reproduction was how society continues from one generation to the next. Marriage was not about an individual's feeling of self-worth but about family and the context for birth of children. Indeed, the concept of Natural Law in the West developed in concert with the observation of the Law of Nations, that is the observation by Romans that peoples of various societies all shared some common laws, against murder, theft, etc. Well, another law shared by every known society in human history has been the formal official recognition of marriage as the basis of legal family. The words for husband and wife in Ancient Greek were the same as the words for male and female, as we also see in German's Mann und Frau, and old English's Man and Wife. That's why talking about different states having different minimum ages or about laws regarding interracial marriage as previous re-definitions of marriage is a red herring to comfort the ignorant. Marriage has now been redefined. Government has had an interest in promoting marriage because it is in the best interest of children that they grow up in stable two person families. Governments that care about all people as equal, like America believed at its founding, want to promote that context for all children. However, by redefining marriage so that it no longer [I]images[/I] the relationship which serves as the basis of biological family, it can no longer serve the purpose for which Government has an interest. Look at what's happened already with the sexual revolution and the legalization of no-fault divorce. The urban and rural poor have been the hardest hit as tax-payer support has actually incentivized the destruction of family, stacking the odds against the next generation. While many single parents do a fantastic job, it is not in the best interest of children to make that the new normal. Moreover, it lays the groundwork for further attack on conservative Christian institutions. In 1983, the SCOTUS ruled that the IRS could remove the tax-exempt status of Bob Jones University because of their stand on interracial marriage. So, with this ruling, the Tax-Exempt status of any Christian University, and perhaps church, which teach that homosexual activity is sinful and that therefore speak against same-sex marriage, is at risk. While Bob Jones was largely alone and had a policy that was not well established nor supported in the Bible of Christian history. The fallout from this decision could strike a significant blow to many parochial schools, grade school through university. The SCOTUS decision allowed that the speech of religious institutions was still protected but that's not the same thing. Finally, the yet little discussed issue arising from this decision is the next sexual orientation which may look for rights, the pedophiles. By granting 14th amendment protection to people based on their sexual orientation, the court implicitly gave that to pedophiles too. Appeals to the interests of the child and consent have always relied on the Natural Law and traditional connection between sexual activity and procreation and consequent family. However, those connections have been eliminated and replaced by a 14th amendment right to dignity owed someone with their sexual orientation. So, you may think that none of this is a big deal. I think you are wrong. [/QUOTE]
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