PSU wins restored.

dhbartlett12

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Bruce Wayne

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Part of a legal settlement where the school and family still care most about whitewashing a legacy. However, the whitewashing attempt is fascinating because it continues to exhibit the exact problem with the man's legacy to begin with; namely, that winning football games is not only most important but the only thing that truly matters.

Paterno as the winning-est coach actually highlights his disgrace much like Bonds with the MLB HR record. He should be remembered as a preeminent example of the really dark side of college football (and Lord Acton's dictum), where coaches can be treated as demi-gods in a place of higher learning on the basis of winning games.

Lots of famous or important people have mixed or besmirched legacies, it is part of the human condition. The key in my opinion is to try and share, represent, or teach a biography and legacy honestly and with charity. I hope the PSU community and Paterno family comes to terms with the totality of the man's life and impact but I see how it is difficult to do.
 
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LibertyTurns

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6,216
Let's see:

a. Have a bunch of bogus classes so players can stay eligible- no punishment
b. Molest a bunch of pre-teens in the school shower- no punishment
c. Free cars, tattoos, hookers, boats, etc- no punishment
d. Take Physics instead of Biology- vacate wins, lose scholarships
e. Get a free $30 T-shirt- vacate wins, lose scholarships
f. Sent a tweet out on the wrong day- extend your "probation"

We're playing the wrong game, playing it wrong or something. Eff you NCAA.
 

Animal02

Banned
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Southeastern Michigan
The NCAA was completely wrong with their sanctions. This was not the first time nor will it be the last.......it is obvious that power and money are more important to the NCAA
The crimes had nothing to do with the football team, nor did it create a competitive advantage. etc.
Sandusky had not been part of the football program for over a decade.
Paterno followed proper protocol in reporting what he knew.......his hands were tied with regard to the use of facilities by Sandusky.

On the other hand, the University......it's president, vp, and AD all are suspect. Children were reportedly taken across state lines (to bowl games etc) Why was there not a federal investigation?
 

collegeballfan

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1,694
Speaking just to the issue of the NCAA taking away wins/championships - dumb, dumb, dumb. How did taking away wins and a "championship" hurt Georgia Tech?
Everyone knows Tech won the games, won the championship on the field and there is nothing no human being on earth can do about it. Georgia Tech won the ACC championship in 2009 and that is the end of the story. The NCAA spends way to much time masturbating.
 

Northeast Stinger

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10,797
It is lack of institutional control.......just not involving an sports teams. The NCAA really had no jurisdiction to be involved....and their emails confirmed it.
I disagree. This heinous crime was able to occur because of the allure of Penn State football, the facilities they provided, the loose way in which those facilities were monitored, a coach whose suspicious behavior was never challenged and athletic and academic administrations that did not want to jeopardize recruiting, risk sanctions or expose the good name of the program to public scrutiny. And not just coincidentally, this protected their competitive advantage on the field.
 

Animal02

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I disagree. This heinous crime was able to occur because of the allure of Penn State football, the facilities they provided, the loose way in which those facilities were monitored, a coach whose suspicious behavior was never challenged and athletic and academic administrations that did not want to jeopardize recruiting, risk sanctions or expose the good name of the program to public scrutiny. And not just coincidentally, this protected their competitive advantage on the field.

So now because football is alluring it must be punished.......that is nonsense.
You claim "risking sanctions" yet thee were none to risk since the football program had NOTHING to do with the perpetrator except for being an ex employee.
You claim suspicious behavior of the coach.....yet the facts do not support your conclusion.

He got rid of Sandusky shortly after the first allegation (which was investigated and nothing came of it)
He asked to have him banned from the using the athletic facilities but was overruled by his superiors and the university attorneys.
When informed (2nd hand) of the event in the shower, he reported it exactly how he was supposed to. (Having a wife that is a tenured professor.....I can tell you following protocol in an academic setting is paramount)
As a potential witness in the case, he stayed out of the investigation and let his superiors deal with it.

You try to connect a lot of dots that simply are not there.
 

Northeast Stinger

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So now because football is alluring it must be punished.......that is nonsense.
You claim "risking sanctions" yet thee were none to risk since the football program had NOTHING to do with the perpetrator except for being an ex employee.
You claim suspicious behavior of the coach.....yet the facts do not support your conclusion.

He got rid of Sandusky shortly after the first allegation (which was investigated and nothing came of it)
He asked to have him banned from the using the athletic facilities but was overruled by his superiors and the university attorneys.
When informed (2nd hand) of the event in the shower, he reported it exactly how he was supposed to. (Having a wife that is a tenured professor.....I can tell you following protocol in an academic setting is paramount)
As a potential witness in the case, he stayed out of the investigation and let his superiors deal with it.

You try to connect a lot of dots that simply are not there.
You and I did not read the same accounts apparently.
 

Northeast Stinger

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Most people haven't.....which is why the anti Paterno rhetoric was so strong.
FBI investigation found him culpable. Paterno had evidence of bad behavior and did nothing for six years. When a report came to him that a little boy was naked and being molested he said, "I did not know what to do." Finally he consulted his athletic department guidelines and referred the matter and "thought nothing more of it." He should have called the police. He is a mandated reporter. Also, I wonder if his grandson was being raped at a local high school if he would have just called the principal and then thought nothing more of it. When a crime occurs, especially of child abuse, you call the police.

After Sandusky was fired by Penn State and after the allegations came to light, Paterno was asked under oath if the firing had anything to do with the the 47 counts of child molestation or if he and Sandusky had ever discussed them. He said "No" on both counts.

The NCAA is supposed to protect college athletics by making sure that (football in particular) does not become so big that it begins to dwarf the ordinary and usual ethical considerations. The head of the athletic department at Penn State, who resigned because of his role in the scandal, and Joe Paterno, acted at best like deer caught in the head lights. You are free to disagree but I am convinced that they lost sight of their basic moral decision making responsibilities because Penn State football was so much bigger than that to them.

I understand that there is a documentary coming out about these events called, "Happy Valley." If I am not mistaken it is being put together by the same people who did the documentary expose about Pat Tillman and the army disinformation campaign about his death. Could be interesting.
 

Animal02

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Southeastern Michigan
FBI investigation found him culpable. Paterno had evidence of bad behavior and did nothing for six years. When a report came to him that a little boy was naked and being molested he said, "I did not know what to do." Finally he consulted his athletic department guidelines and referred the matter and "thought nothing more of it." He should have called the police. He is a mandated reporter. Also, I wonder if his grandson was being raped at a local high school if he would have just called the principal and then thought nothing more of it. When a crime occurs, especially of child abuse, you call the police.

After Sandusky was fired by Penn State and after the allegations came to light, Paterno was asked under oath if the firing had anything to do with the the 47 counts of child molestation or if he and Sandusky had ever discussed them. He said "No" on both counts.

The NCAA is supposed to protect college athletics by making sure that (football in particular) does not become so big that it begins to dwarf the ordinary and usual ethical considerations. The head of the athletic department at Penn State, who resigned because of his role in the scandal, and Joe Paterno, acted at best like deer caught in the head lights. You are free to disagree but I am convinced that they lost sight of their basic moral decision making responsibilities because Penn State football was so much bigger than that to them.

I understand that there is a documentary coming out about these events called, "Happy Valley." If I am not mistaken it is being put together by the same people who did the documentary expose about Pat Tillman and the army disinformation campaign about his death. Could be interesting.

Your timeline is so wrong it is not even funny.

First, the FBI did not find him culpable, a former agent hired by the Board of Trustees claimed to.......and that report has be shredded.
As for his actions regarding the the 2nd hand report......he did EXACTLY as he was supposed to do. He followed university procedures. He was not a witness to the event. He only had second hand knowledge. He reported it to the head of the campus PD. as a university employee.....he had an obligation to follow procedure.......then to step out of the way. You may disagree with the procedure, but it does not make him guilty for following it.
If Paterno really wanted to cover things up, he never would have reported it in the first place.


May, 1998: Jerry Sandusky is investigated by campus police for showering with a young boy in Penn State facilities. No charges are filed .
May, 1999: Jerry Sandusky is informed by Joe Paterno that he will not be the head coach at Penn State.
Dec, 1999: Sandusky receives professor emeritus standing at Penn State including an office on campus. He receives access to all rec facilities. He had full access to the football facilities as well.
At this point....Paterno had no control over Sandusky. He could not keep him out of athletic facilities or off campus. He was advised by the university that they would be sued if they attempted to ban him.

The AD the VP and Pres all have guilt on their hands.
As far as "deer in the head lights" I would be too if having followed the proper procedure on something heard about 2nd hand....you find yourself being blamed for.

"Mr. Paterno explained his actions before he died by saying that “I was afraid to do something that might jeopardize what the University procedure was. So I backed away and turned it over to some other people, people I thought would have a little more expertise than I did.” Freeh Report at 77-78."
 
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