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Our problem is the most part is we need ball players!!!
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<blockquote data-quote="jacketup" data-source="post: 847200" data-attributes="member: 630"><p>It's hard to tell if you are making the point that the team this year was more talented that the "recruiting advantage" teams. This team had more talent than maybe 3 teams on that list, which was easy to tell for folks who know what they are watching. </p><p></p><p>The OL was not very good. As O'Leary said, the farther you are from the ball the sooner you can play. We should have had Jr and Sr linemen left over from Johnson, but we only had one--Minihan--who played consistently. We played a walk-on, Lay, two transfers, Minihan and a freshman who is a Collins recruit. Due to injuries we also played a true freshman. People who think you can just "coach them up" don't know a football from a pumpkin. A walk on and freshmen were able to beat out Johnson signees who are on scholarship. </p><p></p><p>The DL is the same. The top three tacklers yesterday were DBs. Why? Because the DL isn't good enough to keep the OL off the LBs, so the DBs made tackles after significant gains. Games are won or lost at the LOS, and we are not very good there. We have 3 DT commits that we deperately need. </p><p></p><p>As the OP notes, the DBs are slow. Their recovery time is just awful as you know if you have watched good teams play. We don't have even one shut down corner. This is one place where the coaching was subpar, but 2 of the 3 coaches who were dismissed coached DBs, so this has been addressed.</p><p></p><p>As the OP says, the biggest problem with this team is the lack of talent--and that's the biggest problem by far. If Collins was fired we would have a tough time finding a better recruiter to replace him. Firing him would be a mistake for this reason. People seem to forget that he has only had 2 recruiting classes, and you don't win with first and second year players. </p><p></p><p>Don't point to 247 and say we have the 30 something-th best talent. Most of that rating is due to transfers that haven't contributed all that much. The poster child is Clayton. He is a good man, but he was not a 5 star player. He only played in two games, and it's not because he was hurt. There are other examples, although some will likely contribute in the future. </p><p></p><p>The other reason for that ranking is due to Collins recruits who will contribute in the future, but who are too young now. Again, you don't win with first or second year players, especially on the LOS. However, this team was better than last year's team, and there is improvement. Much of this is due to younger players getting better, and who will be even better in the future. We were devastated by injuries as the season went along, and we have no depth. So yes, we looked really bad at the end of the year, when the talent was even less due to injuries and no depth. </p><p></p><p>The typical poster on this board's knowledge doesn't go much deeper than than knowing who the head coach is and whether we won or lost. Therefore, they assume that since we lost it's the head coach's fault. The issue is a lot more complex than that. And no, Clemson (and others) haven't built their program based on "coaching them up." And neither did Paul Johnson, who was 20-7 his first two years with the outstanding recruiting class of 2007 that Gailey brought in, but then with his own subpar recruiting was 54-54 vs FBS. Take away the miracle of 2014 and he was 44-51 vs FBS for 8 of his last 9 years. He won when he had good players, and lost when he didn't. Then he left the cupboard bare and walked off. It takes more than 2 years of recruting to overcome the talent deficit, but it's happening. Give it time.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jacketup, post: 847200, member: 630"] It's hard to tell if you are making the point that the team this year was more talented that the "recruiting advantage" teams. This team had more talent than maybe 3 teams on that list, which was easy to tell for folks who know what they are watching. The OL was not very good. As O'Leary said, the farther you are from the ball the sooner you can play. We should have had Jr and Sr linemen left over from Johnson, but we only had one--Minihan--who played consistently. We played a walk-on, Lay, two transfers, Minihan and a freshman who is a Collins recruit. Due to injuries we also played a true freshman. People who think you can just "coach them up" don't know a football from a pumpkin. A walk on and freshmen were able to beat out Johnson signees who are on scholarship. The DL is the same. The top three tacklers yesterday were DBs. Why? Because the DL isn't good enough to keep the OL off the LBs, so the DBs made tackles after significant gains. Games are won or lost at the LOS, and we are not very good there. We have 3 DT commits that we deperately need. As the OP notes, the DBs are slow. Their recovery time is just awful as you know if you have watched good teams play. We don't have even one shut down corner. This is one place where the coaching was subpar, but 2 of the 3 coaches who were dismissed coached DBs, so this has been addressed. As the OP says, the biggest problem with this team is the lack of talent--and that's the biggest problem by far. If Collins was fired we would have a tough time finding a better recruiter to replace him. Firing him would be a mistake for this reason. People seem to forget that he has only had 2 recruiting classes, and you don't win with first and second year players. Don't point to 247 and say we have the 30 something-th best talent. Most of that rating is due to transfers that haven't contributed all that much. The poster child is Clayton. He is a good man, but he was not a 5 star player. He only played in two games, and it's not because he was hurt. There are other examples, although some will likely contribute in the future. The other reason for that ranking is due to Collins recruits who will contribute in the future, but who are too young now. Again, you don't win with first or second year players, especially on the LOS. However, this team was better than last year's team, and there is improvement. Much of this is due to younger players getting better, and who will be even better in the future. We were devastated by injuries as the season went along, and we have no depth. So yes, we looked really bad at the end of the year, when the talent was even less due to injuries and no depth. The typical poster on this board's knowledge doesn't go much deeper than than knowing who the head coach is and whether we won or lost. Therefore, they assume that since we lost it's the head coach's fault. The issue is a lot more complex than that. And no, Clemson (and others) haven't built their program based on "coaching them up." And neither did Paul Johnson, who was 20-7 his first two years with the outstanding recruiting class of 2007 that Gailey brought in, but then with his own subpar recruiting was 54-54 vs FBS. Take away the miracle of 2014 and he was 44-51 vs FBS for 8 of his last 9 years. He won when he had good players, and lost when he didn't. Then he left the cupboard bare and walked off. It takes more than 2 years of recruting to overcome the talent deficit, but it's happening. Give it time. [/QUOTE]
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