FSU's first td in the ACCCG

[dressedcheeseside]

Nick O'Leary scores on a wide open pass play. Who blew the assignment on this play? Or was it just lack of pressure on Winston? I say if our guys cannot play zone coverage, just send the house and play man. FSU converted on 3rd and long on the previous play to the same guy. How do you lose sight of a guy who just burned you for a first down?

10:44

 

[33jacket]

first let me start off with, we rushed 3 and dropped 8. This should never happen. Second, wtf we rushed 3 I don't know...if we bring 4 chances are you may get enough pressure to hold off this long developing play. With that said

TE lined up in slot
gt playing two deep with white sitting the flat route
FSU runs a 2 deep zone killer combo with a WR post to occupy the safety, a flat attack with the RB out of the backfield and a slot WR or TE in this case running what White assumed was an out route, but he turns and goes up to the deep zone that the WR running the post cleared by occupying the S

Typically, the slot in a base 4-3 is covered by that OLB or in nickel the nickel CB. Here we play a 3-3-5 essentially with a OLB on the TE and the nickel back on the other side of the field to the 2 WR set side. DJ white sits the flat like he is supposed to but PJ Davis bit on the RB action and didn't follow his slot assignment. Davis should have followed the TE.

This is just a nice design by Fisher. What he does in formation is 11 set; with the TE being slot. He knows his TE is better than any other teams LB; and he exploits that by clearing out the S with a WR post. Oleary was 1 in this play the whole way. He then sends a RB to the flat to occupy the sitting CB (dj white). This is a 2 deep zone killer creating a one on one matchup with their TE vs our WOLB. Our WLB didn't follow him.

This play is great, it works awesome in 2 deep. But if we played 3 deep, DJ white now follows that WR deep, and passes him to the S on the post action and would pick up oleary in his zone on the up part of the route...the lb would be skating under to see the RB in the flat...In 3 deep Winston checks the play to the backside WR running a seam or dumps the ball to the flat for a 1 on 1 RB vs LB matchup. Or audibles out completely/checks to a run etc. But GT gave him what he wanted and then we only rushed 3 giving no ability to mask covg blows with pressure etc.

FYI, it is classic example of a scheme play that drives, drove and still drives me up the wall. He did this so much early in the year...but to his credit and PJ's started blitzing more after UNC...just happened to call this vs FSU...oh well. I hope we don't see 3 man rush on 1st down much EVER again. Its one thing to do a 3 man rush on 3rd down or second and long..but by gosh first down? I don't get it...then you blow the covg anyway. UGH.

Of course, I could say the call was great anticipation of a pass by roof...only rushing 3 giving his D the best chance to defend the pass....I guess its just how you look at it. For me I would always put four on first down...

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

I wish I had a dime for every time we have been burned by a TE in the past 25 years. We have played a very poor zone ever since I can remember.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

first let me start off with, we rushed 3 and dropped 8. This should never happen. Second, wtf we rushed 3 I don't know...if we bring 4 chances are you may get enough pressure to hold off this long developing play. With that said

TE lined up in slot
gt playing two deep with white sitting the flat route
FSU runs a 2 deep zone killer combo with a WR post to occupy the safety, a flat attack with the RB out of the backfield and a slot WR or TE in this case running what White assumed was an out route, but he turns and goes up to the deep zone that the WR running the post cleared by occupying the S

Typically, the slot in a base 4-3 is covered by that OLB or in nickel the nickel CB. Here we play a 3-3-5 essentially with a OLB on the TE and the nickel back on the other side of the field to the 2 WR set side. DJ white sits the flat like he is supposed to but PJ Davis bit on the RB action and didn't follow his slot assignment. Davis should have followed the TE.

This is just a nice design by Fisher. What he does in formation is 11 set; with the TE being slot. He knows his TE is better than any other teams LB; and he exploits that by clearing out the S with a WR post. Oleary was 1 in this play the whole way. He then sends a RB to the flat to occupy the sitting CB (dj white). This is a 2 deep zone killer creating a one on one matchup with their TE vs our WOLB. Our WLB didn't follow him.

This play is great, it works awesome in 2 deep. But if we played 3 deep, DJ white now follows that WR deep, and passes him to the S on the post action and would pick up oleary in his zone on the up part of the route...the lb would be skating under to see the RB in the flat...In 3 deep Winston checks the play to the backside WR running a seam or dumps the ball to the flat for a 1 on 1 RB vs LB matchup. Or audibles out completely/checks to a run etc. But GT gave him what he wanted and then we only rushed 3 giving no ability to mask covg blows with pressure etc.

FYI, it is classic example of a scheme play that drives, drove and still drives me up the wall. He did this so much early in the year...but to his credit and PJ's started blitzing more after UNC...just happened to call this vs FSU...oh well. I hope we don't see 3 man rush on 1st down much EVER again. Its one thing to do a 3 man rush on 3rd down or second and long..but by gosh first down? I don't get it...then you blow the covg anyway. UGH.

Of course, I could say the call was great anticipation of a pass by roof...only rushing 3 giving his D the best chance to defend the pass....I guess its just how you look at it. For me I would always put four on first down...

Davis had no inclination to cover O'Leary on that play, none whatsoever. He must have thought DJ was gonna stick with him. I wonder if knowing your assignment is harder when you drop 8 guys into coverage?* When you man up, there's no doubt. I'd much rather get beat because the other guy beats you, rather than like this. There also might be something to the old recruiting attack that our D doesn't get enough pass looks in practice.

Fwiw, Gamble got good penetration and was a half step away from Winston when he released the ball at 4 sec after the snap. Heck, he could have thrown at 3 the way O'Leary was left alone.

*Just think, if your drop eight guys, you're basically double covering all the possible receivers. And they still beat us.

 

[33jacket]

Davis had no inclination to cover O'Leary on that play, none whatsoever. He must have thought DJ was gonna stick with him. I wonder if knowing your assignment is harder when you drop 8 guys into coverage?* When you man up, there's no doubt. I'd much rather get beat because the other guy beats you, rather than like this. There also might be something to the old recruiting attack that our D doesn't get enough pass looks in practice.

Fwiw, Gamble got good penetration and was a half step away from Winston when he released the ball at 4 sec after the snap. Heck, he could have thrown at 3 the way O'Leary was left alone.

*Just think, if your drop eight guys, you're basically double covering all the possible receivers. And they still beat us.

IMO penetration came way to late...the guy closest was Gotsis...but it took a long time for what you want to see. He wasn't even close to pressure until 3.5 seconds after snap; and he still wasn't at the QB, let alone hitting him etc. The average time to sack is around 2.7 and 2.8 seconds. That means hit and bring to the ground. We weren't near him after 3 seconds....in fact to even hit winston I would venture 4+ seconds if you look at the OL position, the fact winston could still step up and move...It just wasn't there enough IMO but that is to be expected in a 3 man rush.

As far as the cover 2 shell....the thing here that is tough, is I gave you the TYPICAL assignment. The typical assignment in cover 2 for that alignment in slot is the OLB has man on the TE or Slot. Typical. The play is designed to exploit that. You can flat out see it. Its a very basic play and design. It simply takes advantage of your best matchups...But...there are cover 2 combos that when the slot releases to the flat he is 1 and the CB is supposed to follow him deep no matter what since the first #1 went deep to the S and cleared his area..... and the LB comes to the flat. The problem here with this, is this assumes White screwed up. If White screwed up and Davis didn't then you would see Davis going to the flat zone and he didn't do that either. He just kinda stood in no mans land. So to me, you can see white pass his coverage like he is supposed to and eye the RB in the flat...he is supposed to pass to allow Davis time to catch up....so to me Davis screwed up as he never dropped...

By the way I want to point out...that could have been an option route by oleary too. In 2 deep he is told do an out and up and challenge the LB. In 3 deep with the CB taking the WR deep and passing his zone he is told to just keep the route flat and run an out route or comeback...so there is that option on this play too.

 

[InsideLB]

I wish I had a dime for every time we have been burned by a TE in the past 25 years. We have played a very poor zone ever since I can remember.

I hear you that we've played some bad zone D in the last 25 years, and think it is a perfectly valid comment. So my response here isn't really directed at you so much as it's expressing something I've been wondering about:

I always hear stuff from fans about GT getting killed or burned by tight ends, and I can't help but wonder whether GT REALLY gets burned more by TE's than other teams do. Maybe it's perception.

I mean, TE's are basically really big possession receivers and that big target can be difficult to cover and confusing for LBs keep track of when they release from the LOS. A good QB/TE battery is gonna get their yardage and big plays against pretty much any team. Our TE in college was our leading receiver 2 years running. Bad mofo after the catch too.

I think what happens sometimes is we as fans forget about the TE, or assume that TE's shouldn't present a problem. Then, if a TE makes a TD catch, or first down play against us we are suprised and upset. This may be particularly true in Johnson era as we don't use TE's and aren't accusmtomed to thinking about 'em much.

Again I'm not making any claim here and I also have memories of being eviscerated by TE's. I just wonder if it's perception or a statistically significant phenomenon when compared to other defenses.

 

[33jacket]

I hear you that we've played some bad zone D in the last 25 years, and think it is a perfectly valid comment. So my response here isn't really directed at you so much as it's expressing something I've been wondering about:

I always hear stuff from fans about GT getting killed or burned by tight ends, and I can't help but wonder whether GT REALLY gets burned more by TE's than other teams do. Maybe it's perception.

I mean, TE's are basically really big possession receivers and that big target can be difficult to cover and confusing for LBs keep track of when they release from the LOS. A good QB/TE battery is gonna get their yardage and big plays against pretty much any team. Our TE in college was our leading receiver 2 years running. Bad mofo after the catch too.

I think what happens sometimes is we as fans forget about the TE, or assume that TE's shouldn't present a problem. Then, if a TE makes a TD catch, or first down play against us we are suprised and upset. This may be particularly true in Johnson era as we don't use TE's and aren't accusmtomed to thinking about 'em much.

Again I'm not making any claim here and I also have memories of being eviscerated by TE's. I just wonder if it's perception or a statistically significant phenomenon when compared to other defenses.

I think its perception. We have faced a ton of good NFL TE's and so we see it....but every team they go against sees it too. I can also recall us flat shutting down that great UNC TE in the second half with Jemea Thomas. I am sure there are other examples...We shut down FSU pretty good in the second half a few years ago. UGA hasn't hurt us much with their TE the last few years that I can recall.

TE stand out alot because they may have 3 catches, but they are often 3rd options so when they get the play...its big...and for yardage...and so they stick out...for me its all perception. GT doesn't have a TE weakness any more than anyone else IMO.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I hear you that we've played some bad zone D in the last 25 years, and think it is a perfectly valid comment. So my response here isn't really directed at you so much as it's expressing something I've been wondering about:

I always hear stuff from fans about GT getting killed or burned by tight ends, and I can't help but wonder whether GT REALLY gets burned more by TE's than other teams do. Maybe it's perception.

I mean, TE's are basically really big possession receivers and that big target can be difficult to cover and confusing for LBs keep track of when they release from the LOS. A good QB/TE battery is gonna get their yardage and big plays against pretty much any team. Our TE in college was our leading receiver 2 years running. Bad mofo after the catch too.

I think what happens sometimes is we as fans forget about the TE, or assume that TE's shouldn't present a problem. Then, if a TE makes a TD catch, or first down play against us we are suprised and upset. This may be particularly true in Johnson era as we don't use TE's and aren't accusmtomed to thinking about 'em much.

Again I'm not making any claim here and I also have memories of being eviscerated by TE's. I just wonder if it's perception or a statistically significant phenomenon when compared to other defenses.

FSU had 6 guys blocking our 3. If our back 8 expected any pass rush in that situation, especially knowing our DL, they're idiots. Considering that, I'd say 4 second pressure is not bad. This muff here is totally on whomever blew the coverage, now you got me unsure.

 

[FrostedOrange]

That 3rd and 15 conversion was a back breaker. Get that one stop and we've got them on the rocks. I felt nauseated when they converted that.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

This is why the jury's still out on Roof for me. I do not think it was lack of talent so much as lack of an identity or plan on defense until after UNC.

By Dodd, if we are going to get beat, let's go down swinging.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

This is why the jury's still out on Roof for me. I do not think it was lack of talent so much as lack of an identity or plan on defense until after UNC.

By Dodd, if we are going to get beat, let's go down swinging.

To be fair, this was just one play. (I just wanted to understand it better.) We've had far less blown coverages this year compared to past years, especially the one where Groh was canned halfway through. Also, a good pass rush can bail you out of these situations from time to time. Unfortunately, O'leary was the the primary on this play and he was the guy left uncovered and we only rushed 3. All those bad things added up on this play.

Also, our db's have proven time and again to be ahead of the curve cerebrally and athletically. Golden and DJ have made several plays where they seemed like they new the play call but it was all due to good preparation and being really good athletes. I wish I could say the same for our LB corps.

 

[AE 87]

To be fair, this was just one play. (I just wanted to understand it better.) We've had far less blown coverages this year compared to past years, especially the one where Groh was canned halfway through. Also, a good pass rush can bail you out of these situations from time to time. Unfortunately, O'leary was the the primary on this play and he was the guy left uncovered and we only rushed 3. All those bad things added up on this play.

Also, our db's have proven time and again to be ahead of the curve cerebrally and athletically. Golden and DJ have made several plays where they seemed like they new the play call but it was all due to good preparation and being really good athletes. I wish I could say the same for our LB corps.

The problem for me is that it didn't seem like "one play." It seemed like par for the course for most of the season. we were #113 of 128 in giving up plays of over 10 yds, #100 in plays over 2o yds.

The good news is that we were better last year, and we played a lot of freshmen this past year. So, hopefully, last year was a fluke.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

It was just painful to watch. I get that we don't have the talent of Alabama, but a LOT of the missed/blown coverages and tackles was simply not being put in position to succeed. I didn't think our DL was THAT bad.

I LIKE Roof, I just don't like his SCHEME (or lack thereof). I like aggressive D, and I think we started to get into that a bit more. One thing that I will say about Roof is the man clearly coaches how to get turnovers. Now, if we can just combine that with stopping 3rd down conversions...

 

[Skeptic]

That is an outstanding piece of film breakdown by the way, 33jacket.

 

[AE 87]

The problem for me is that it didn't seem like "one play." It seemed like par for the course for most of the season. we were #113 of 128 in giving up plays of over 10 yds, #100 in plays over 2o yds.

The good news is that we were better last year, and we played a lot of freshmen this past year. So, hopefully, last year was a fluke.

oops ... 1st ref to "last year" was 2013 -- we were better in a lot of D categories in 2013 over 2014 ... 2nd ref to "last year" was to 2014, hopefully this past year was a fluke, and we get better this coming year

 

[33jacket]

FSU had 6 guys blocking our 3. If our back 8 expected any pass rush in that situation, especially knowing our DL, they're idiots. Considering that, I'd say 4 second pressure is not bad. This muff here is totally on whomever blew the coverage, now you got me unsure.

I don't think its the back 8 expecting a pass rush LOL. I think its the coaches...who can be idiots too. When you play CB or DL you don't expect a pass rush so you can screw up and the DL doesn't expect them to hold coverage for you to take your time. You play your assignment as violently as possible until the whistle. You don't have time to assume. We observers and fans expect things...

the muff is on Davis...I am fairly certain. I only say that because 99% of the time that OLB is covering that position and doesn't pass to a sitting 2 deep CB only for the CB to all of a sudden go deep into a 3 deep look. The CB never bailed at snap. He always played the flat. If the cb starts bailing you know he has deep half coverage...he never did. He always played up and Davis "went nowhere". Usually when a guy on D goes nowhere...they are in the wrong place/read/spot

Just look at other tape of Marcodes down the sideline chasing slots or wheel routes in the same defense...It happened a few times in other games, but he played his assignment...here Davis didn't.

 

[DrJacket]

All of which might make this blog from a few weeks ago a little more important...
http://georgiatech.blog.ajc.com/2015/04/10/p-j-davis-taking-cowboy-out-of-his-game/

 

[awbuzz]

@33jacket - Thanks for your insight. As John Doe fan I appreciate you (and others) that help break it down for the rest of us.

 

[gtwcf]

PJ was lost and trying to find out what he was supposed to do before the play. He was looking to Q to figure out the coverage plan, and then just tried to do something...