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<blockquote data-quote="Techster" data-source="post: 969526" data-attributes="member: 360"><p>Sorry, but the premise of your original argument <strong>"CGC was a lousy coach <u>but if the talent was so much better than previous years then even a lousy coach could get you at least five wins.</u>" </strong>is what we're discussing.</p><p></p><p>Posters love to post about "straw man" arguments, but your 5 win mark delineation would be the definition of a straw man argument. That disregards strength of schedule, and other factors...and GT typically has one of the hardest schedules in the country. Our talent may have been "overestimated" as you like to say, but it was good enough to beat ranked teams like Pitt (#46 talent composite in 2022) and UNC (#16 in 2022) on the road and helped Key to a 4-4 interim record. It's easy to say talent is overestimated if the wrong person is in charge of that talent.</p><p></p><p>I don't care how good your talent is, you're not going to overcome bad coaching and almost nonexistent player development. Not only was he a terrible coach, he also stunted the development of the talent we brought in. When we actually had a good coach who emphasized the CORRECT way to practice, and Key is a better coach than Collins, we actually did better as our win against Pitt and UNC on the road and our 4-4 record under Key proves. Talent is not going to overcome a coach who can't coach or develop that talent. You're arguing something that Key's record after Collins got the boot proves your premise wrong.</p><p></p><p>I agree with you that Collins did not recruit to the "elite" level he loved to spit out on any and every mic put in front of him, but he did improve our talent base...<em><strong>though not to the degree he promised.</strong></em> As others have pointed out, our issue with talent is more WHERE that talent is, and not in overall talent. If you want to argue that we don't have enough talent at important positions like OL/DL/LB, I would stand in line right behind you. The other problem, as I pointed out earlier, is a LOT of our talent that helped our recruiting rankings, have left for other schools. How different does our DL look with Akelo Stone (Ole Miss), Jared Ivey (Ole Miss), and Jordan Dominek (Arkansas, Colorado)? How different does our offense look with Nate McCollum (UNC) and Jahmyr Gibbs ('Bama, NFL)? Outside of Gibbs who would have been in the NFL this year regardless of his 'Bama transfer, every other one of those players I named would still be eligible for GT right now.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Techster, post: 969526, member: 360"] Sorry, but the premise of your original argument [B]"CGC was a lousy coach [U]but if the talent was so much better than previous years then even a lousy coach could get you at least five wins.[/U]" [/B]is what we're discussing. Posters love to post about "straw man" arguments, but your 5 win mark delineation would be the definition of a straw man argument. That disregards strength of schedule, and other factors...and GT typically has one of the hardest schedules in the country. Our talent may have been "overestimated" as you like to say, but it was good enough to beat ranked teams like Pitt (#46 talent composite in 2022) and UNC (#16 in 2022) on the road and helped Key to a 4-4 interim record. It's easy to say talent is overestimated if the wrong person is in charge of that talent. I don't care how good your talent is, you're not going to overcome bad coaching and almost nonexistent player development. Not only was he a terrible coach, he also stunted the development of the talent we brought in. When we actually had a good coach who emphasized the CORRECT way to practice, and Key is a better coach than Collins, we actually did better as our win against Pitt and UNC on the road and our 4-4 record under Key proves. Talent is not going to overcome a coach who can't coach or develop that talent. You're arguing something that Key's record after Collins got the boot proves your premise wrong. I agree with you that Collins did not recruit to the "elite" level he loved to spit out on any and every mic put in front of him, but he did improve our talent base...[I][B]though not to the degree he promised.[/B][/I] As others have pointed out, our issue with talent is more WHERE that talent is, and not in overall talent. If you want to argue that we don't have enough talent at important positions like OL/DL/LB, I would stand in line right behind you. The other problem, as I pointed out earlier, is a LOT of our talent that helped our recruiting rankings, have left for other schools. How different does our DL look with Akelo Stone (Ole Miss), Jared Ivey (Ole Miss), and Jordan Dominek (Arkansas, Colorado)? How different does our offense look with Nate McCollum (UNC) and Jahmyr Gibbs ('Bama, NFL)? Outside of Gibbs who would have been in the NFL this year regardless of his 'Bama transfer, every other one of those players I named would still be eligible for GT right now. [/QUOTE]
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