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apatriot1776

apatriot1776

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Damon Stoudamire looks to second season with Georgia Tech

FERNANDINA BEACH, Fla. — It wasn’t really an adjustment to the ACC for newcomer Damon Stoudamire during the 2023-24 season. It was more of a readjustment to college basketball overall after a few years away from that level of competition.
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Some good DS quotes in here.

“What I learned about college is it’s more like the NBA than when I left (Pacific in 2021 for the Boston Celtics)… You have NIL, which is essentially pay-for-play, which is the right thing to do, yet we’re still treating the players with respect and the right way and doing the right thing by ‘em when sometimes it’s not reciprocated in return.”

“I think what a lot of us need to do is evaluate how to go about certain things. There’s so much going on in collegiate sports now that you have to run this like an NBA team. There are departments. There used to be so much put on one or two assistant coaches. Is that the right way to do it now? There’s so much more manpower that’s needed.”

“We still got a couple of scholarships and we’ll fill those, but I like my roster… Just waiting for (Ndongo’s) decision. But I think if he comes back we got a chance to be a really good team.”
 
orientalnc

orientalnc

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apatriot1776 said:
Author mentioned Kelly but CDS did not. Not sure where the original interview is, maybe he did then.
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Kelly and Ndongo have until May 29 (ten days after the NBA Combine) to withdraw from the draft and retain their college eligibility. Kelly does not have a deadline to withdraw from the transfer portal other than GT holding his roster spot.

I understand the comment by CDS that he has two available scholarships. He doesn't have any assurances that Baye and Mike will return and has to look after his team first. It is my personal belief, and nothing more, that Ndongo will announce his intentions soon. He is not going to be drafted and the only NCAA team he play for in 2024 is GT. Kelly might be talking to several teams about a transfer if he can get a decent NIL deal. I wonder if CDS has made a calculation that GT doesn't have enough NIL money to get both and needs Ndongo more than Kelly.
 

MtnWasp

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Coach noted how rapidly the industry is "evolving."

How rosters are built and maintained has undergone such upheaval, that I don't even recognize it anymore. This isn't like seismic activity, rather, it is more like the scene in the movie "2012" where Los Angeles slides into "the gurgling maw of the Pacific."

And I sit back and watch with wonder. Like other aspects of the world, I've hit the state where it starts with an attitude that "nothing is true, and anything can happen."
 

MtnWasp

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apatriot1776 said:
“What I learned about college is it’s more like the NBA than when I left (Pacific in 2021 for the Boston Celtics)… You have NIL, which is essentially pay-for-play, which is the right thing to do, yet we’re still treating the players with respect and the right way and doing the right thing by ‘em when sometimes it’s not reciprocated in return.”
Click to expand...
I'm a little surprised this quote has not gotten more of a response. Coach is squarely addressing player selfishness which seems to me to be running amuck. There is a balance and tension between the interests of the individual and the interests of the group. That tension has existed since men stood upright.

But so much of the changes we are seeing to college athletics seem to center on this cutting edge point, an extreme shift in priority towards the interests of the individual at the expense of the group. Have we reached a point where fans and coaches care more about team identity than the players? If so, what does that mean for fans and coaches? Is it just business as usual for fans or are these forces cracking the foundation?

Hey, we all look out for ourselves, but we don't exist in a social vacuum so we also look out for those around us. It is actually in our self-interests to regard the interests of the group. There is a balance and that balance is how we determine what we want and what we do. What is considered normal in this social calculus seems to have shifted markedly, at least that is how it looks to me.

How stable is a social endeavor (like a team sport) when the individuals make decisions without any regard to the impact on the group?
 

57jacket

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MtnWasp said:
I'm a little surprised this quote has not gotten more of a response. Coach is squarely addressing player selfishness which seems to me to be running amuck. There is a balance and tension between the interests of the individual and the interests of the group. That tension has existed since men stood upright.

But so much of the changes we are seeing to college athletics seem to center on this cutting edge point, an extreme shift in priority towards the interests of the individual at the expense of the group. Have we reached a point where fans and coaches care more about team identity than the players? If so, what does that mean for fans and coaches? Is it just business as usual for fans or are these forces cracking the foundation?

Hey, we all look out for ourselves, but we don't exist in a social vacuum so we also look out for those around us. It is actually in our self-interests to regard the interests of the group. There is a balance and that balance is how we determine what we want and what we do. What is considered normal in this social calculus seems to have shifted markedly, at least that is how it looks to me.

How stable is a social endeavor (like a team sport) when the individuals make decisions without any regard to the impact on the group?
Click to expand...
Excellent post Wasp. Selfishness has taken over everything.
 
RonJohn

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MtnWasp said:
I'm a little surprised this quote has not gotten more of a response. Coach is squarely addressing player selfishness which seems to me to be running amuck. There is a balance and tension between the interests of the individual and the interests of the group. That tension has existed since men stood upright.

But so much of the changes we are seeing to college athletics seem to center on this cutting edge point, an extreme shift in priority towards the interests of the individual at the expense of the group. Have we reached a point where fans and coaches care more about team identity than the players? If so, what does that mean for fans and coaches? Is it just business as usual for fans or are these forces cracking the foundation?

Hey, we all look out for ourselves, but we don't exist in a social vacuum so we also look out for those around us. It is actually in our self-interests to regard the interests of the group. There is a balance and that balance is how we determine what we want and what we do. What is considered normal in this social calculus seems to have shifted markedly, at least that is how it looks to me.

How stable is a social endeavor (like a team sport) when the individuals make decisions without any regard to the impact on the group?
Click to expand...
Have coaches been interested in the group in the past? Do coaches stay at Memphis if Kentucky offers him double the money and a chance to win championships at a historic school? What about assistant coaches, do they stay at the same school for a long time to build up the "group"? College athletics have been a business for a long time. I don't think it is "doing the right thing by them" to try to prevent someone from reaching for a better opportunity. It sucks if someone else can offer a better opportunity than you, but it happens.

Do people stay at their current jobs if they have an opportunity for more money and/or more opportunity to advance their careers elsewhere? Does it harm their work "group" when they leave? Should we tell people that once they start working for a company that they have to stay at that company until they retire to avoid being self-interested and damaging to the group?

Everyone should do what is in their own best interest, in college or in the workforce. There are many players who are leaving for very little advancement in money or opportunity. During the "great resignation", I saw people leave for just a few thousand dollars a year that would have been able to get that at their current company if they had only discussed it before accepting another opportunity. I know a few people who later returned to the old company, and a few others who attempted to return but couldn't. It isn't just dollar amount whether college basketball or career. It isn't worth a 10% raise to leave an outstanding culture for a toxic culture. I would say it isn't worth a 5% raise to leave an outstanding culture, even for another good culture. However, whether career or college, it is definitely better to leave if you can get a lot more money and a lot more opportunity.
 

MtnWasp

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one could make an interesting argument that corporate social hierarchies may have a lot to do with the shift in broader social priorities. For individuals to look out for the group, they have to see that the group is looking out for them. So, looking to corporate social norms maybe be eyeing a source of problems and not favorable equilibria.

But the points is that Coach has stated that even when he is looking out for the players, he doesn't feel like this is always reciprocated. Does coaching movement even loosely approximate that rate of player movement at this time?
 
RonJohn

RonJohn

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MtnWasp said:
one could make an interesting argument that corporate social hierarchies may have a lot to do with the shift in broader social priorities. For individuals to look out for the group, they have to see that the group is looking out for them. So, looking to corporate social norms maybe be eyeing a source of problems and not favorable equilibria.

But the points is that Coach has stated that even when he is looking out for the players, he doesn't feel like this is always reciprocated. Does coaching movement even loosely approximate that rate of player movement at this time?
Click to expand...
The players are moving around too much at the moment, and I believe I alluded to that in my post. Transfer portal and NIL are still new. I think many players believe there are better opportunities available, but they don't understand all of the ramifications of transferring. If the process continues the way it is now, I think things will settle down after a few years. Players will still see players that transferred for a lot more money and won championships. But they will see many more players that transferred for an additional $5k per year who had to leave the sport after one year because they couldn't cut it. At this point, they only see opportunity. They can't see the risks.

There are coaches that look out for the best interest of the players. I had a business dinner with a former GT football player a few years ago. He told a story and basically said that Coach Curry pushed him extremely hard to develop as a person, and not just as a player. My impression of what he said wasn't that Coach Curry made him the success he is, but that Curry took a teenage boy and pointed him in the direction to being a successful person. (basically by force)

With respect to coaches looking out for players. If there is a player who is a definite first round draft choice, or a player who could transfer to start at a blue-blood program, is a coach going to be looking out for the player's best interest? I think many coaches are going to tell the draft player that he should enter the draft. Would a coach have an honest discussion with the potential blue-blood player about the extra money, exposure, and chance of a championship at the blue-blood program? Is the coach going to downplay those things and try to pressure the player to stay? I think if you are really looking out for the best interest of the player, that you would acknowledge the advantages of transferring, yet tell him how important he is to the current program and what you have in mind for him in the following year. Then leave the player to decide what he wants to do. Having integrity is difficult. It seems that we expect 18-20 year old players to have integrity, but don't think much about coaches who don't. (I am not speaking about CDS, or any coach in particular with that statement.)
 

57jacket

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Perhaps having schools pay players is better than the current NIL crap. The school could then sign players to multi year contracts, negating the madness that is the transfer potal.
 
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