When does Pastner feel heat

Golden Tornadoes

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
302
Figuratively, I agree. There is a place and time for discussions about Pastner's future and I am confident Batt is well ahead of us. It's his job. There is a lot more to consider than the happiness of Swarm members, even if we are the most public with our dismay. It has been made clear by several upstream on this thread that we need to make sure the next coach is an actual improvement over Josh. It will take what we are paying him plus quite a bit more if we expect measurable improvement in the near future. Where is that money to be sourced? Do we have enough deep pocket alums who care enough about hoops to make a difference? Finding them, if they exist, is Batt's real challenge. Then the meeting with Josh is easy for both men.
It's time we got guys like Bosh, Okogie, Jack, Shumpert, and Marbury invested back into the program. Right now, they have no motivation to get involved, but if J Batt can show them a clear vision and direction, maybe they are willing to open up their checkbooks....
 

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
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10,594
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Marietta, GA
Last night's game effort was not held by having Smith and Terry out of the lineup. I would like to think that we would have won if at least one or both of them would have been available in healthy enough to play.
Regardless, we lost in an embarrassing manner.
 

leatherneckjacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
950
Location
Atlanta, GA
We have neither ACC level talent nor coaching currently. Fixing this broken program will be difficult even in the Portal era.
I am sorry, but our talent level is much better than where we are in the conference and how we have played. We may not Duke or UNCheat in terms of talent, but we are not dead last either.
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,180
It's time we got guys like Bosh, Okogie, Jack, Shumpert, and Marbury invested back into the program. Right now, they have no motivation to get involved, but if J Batt can show them a clear vision and direction, maybe they are willing to open up their checkbooks....
Even just donating public face time to the program would be helpful.
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,180
Last night's game effort was not held by having Smith and Terry out of the lineup. I would like to think that we would have won if at least one or both of them would have been available in healthy enough to play.
Regardless, we lost in an embarrassing manner.
So, as always we have no depth, a razor thin margin for error, and just not enough talent in the program.

To beat a dead 🐴 I also think the season would be different with a decent center and a good point guard. But, alas, we all think we can see a few tweaks that would greatly improve the team and the season while recognizing that this “almost there” is a feature and not a bug.
 

Root4GT

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
749
I am sorry, but our talent level is much better than where we are in the conference and how we have played. We may not Duke or UNCheat in terms of talent, but we are not dead last either.
I think the coaching has been terrible and the roster construction a disaster. I just don't see more than 2 or 3 ACC caliber players who would get 20+ minutes on most of the ACC Teams. Moore could in another year or so, however, he isn't there yet. Debo can shoot fairly well but lacks any other skill set. On a good ACC team he could provide value as a shooter. Kelley is probably the most complete player, however, he seems to lack court BB IQ much of the time taking wild long 3 point shots or driving into the lane packed with defenders. Smith is extremely athletic and a great rebounding guard. Unfortunately he is a very poor shooter which neutralizes his speed/athletic advantage as defenders simply dare him to shoot. The rest, not ACC level players. Our record reflects our talent. A much better coach might have 3-4 conference wins at this point with this roster in my opinion.
 

leatherneckjacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
950
Location
Atlanta, GA
I think the coaching has been terrible and the roster construction a disaster. I just don't see more than 2 or 3 ACC caliber players who would get 20+ minutes on most of the ACC Teams. Moore could in another year or so, however, he isn't there yet. Debo can shoot fairly well but lacks any other skill set. On a good ACC team he could provide value as a shooter. Kelley is probably the most complete player, however, he seems to lack court BB IQ much of the time taking wild long 3 point shots or driving into the lane packed with defenders. Smith is extremely athletic and a great rebounding guard. Unfortunately he is a very poor shooter which neutralizes his speed/athletic advantage as defenders simply dare him to shoot. The rest, not ACC level players. Our record reflects our talent. A much better coach might have 3-4 conference wins at this point with this roster in my opinion.
If you think Debo lacks any skill set besides the ability to shoot fairly well there is no need to continue this conversation because you have no idea of which you speak.
 

daddee724

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
74
I think the coaching has been terrible and the roster construction a disaster. I just don't see more than 2 or 3 ACC caliber players who would get 20+ minutes on most of the ACC Teams. Moore could in another year or so, however, he isn't there yet. Debo can shoot fairly well but lacks any other skill set. On a good ACC team he could provide value as a shooter. Kelley is probably the most complete player, however, he seems to lack court BB IQ much of the time taking wild long 3 point shots or driving into the lane packed with defenders. Smith is extremely athletic and a great rebounding guard. Unfortunately he is a very poor shooter which neutralizes his speed/athletic advantage as defenders simply dare him to shoot. The rest, not ACC level players. Our record reflects our talent. A much better coach might have 3-4 conference wins at this point with this roster in my opinion.
It's the coach fault for not putting in a system to utilize his players strength/talent. So if you not getting paid to recognize these things then why can't CJP see it? Same 💩 from last year, so it is not the talent it's the system their in. Again trying to get a square peg in a round hole. So if you have guys doing things that in your opinion not talented enough to do. It's the system. A lot of guys getting paid quite a bit of money to do just the things you mentioned
 

Root4GT

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
749
If you think Debo lacks any skill set besides the ability to shoot fairly well there is no need to continue this conversation because you have no idea of which you speak.
In my opinion, he has not demonstrated the necessary quicknes to separate from a defender to create his own shot. He has not demonstrated the quickness to play man to man defense against ACC level guards/forwards. He has not demonstrated the physical toughness to get his shot off regularly in the lane. I believe those are necessary qualities for a good ACC caliber player.

So in your opinion what are the qualities that he has demonstrated that make you think he is a good ACC level player.

Are you willing to share your thoughts or are you simply going to go away without a true explanation of your opinion? I am actually curious as to what you see that forms your opinion.
 

leatherneckjacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
950
Location
Atlanta, GA
In my opinion, he has not demonstrated the necessary quicknes to separate from a defender to create his own shot. He has not demonstrated the quickness to play man to man defense against ACC level guards/forwards. He has not demonstrated the physical toughness to get his shot off regularly in the lane. I believe those are necessary qualities for a good ACC caliber player.

So in your opinion what are the qualities that he has demonstrated that make you think he is a good ACC level player.

Are you willing to share your thoughts or are you simply going to go away without a true explanation of your opinion? I am actually curious as to what you see that forms your opinion.
What he has demonstrated is that he is not well coached. He is a multiple tool skilled player. That was evident in high school when he was rated as a top 100 prospect. Those skills have not been further developed nor has he been utilized in a way to leverage those skills to the benefit of the team.

Also, I do not need to convince you or anyone of anything.

By the way, toughness and quickness are not skills. Ball handling, passing, rebounding and playing on ball defense are skills.
 

Steverc

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
244
I hear over and over again that it's the system, not the players. The Princeton offense was developed by Coach Carril in an attempt to level the playing field between his players at Princeton and the more skilled and athletic players in the power conferences. When a coach chooses to run this offense, he recognizes that he does not have talented players. Pastner sees these players every day in practice. I am willing to at least give him enough credit in recognizing that his players do not measure up.
 

leatherneckjacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
950
Location
Atlanta, GA
I hear over and over again that it's the system, not the players. The Princeton offense was developed by Coach Carril in an attempt to level the playing field between his players at Princeton and the more skilled and athletic players in the power conferences. When a coach chooses to run this offense, he recognizes that he does not have talented players. Pastner sees these players every day in practice. I am willing to at least give him enough credit in recognizing that his players do not measure up.
The Princeton offense does not work if your big is your primary ball handler and he cannot drive to the basket, pass the ball or shoot. It is not about neutralizing a team's lack of skill. It is about neutralizing a team's lack of height and ability to break down man to man defenses off the dribble by pulling the center from under the basket and using weaves and back door cuts to create open looks and easy layups.
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,434
The Princeton offense does not work if your big is your primary ball handler and he cannot drive to the basket, pass the ball or shoot. It is not about neutralizing a team's lack of skill. It is about neutralizing a team's lack of height and ability to break down man to man defenses off the dribble by pulling the center from under the basket and using weaves and back door cuts to create open looks and easy layups.
Back door cuts and very good outside shooting.
 

GT33

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
943
Figuratively, I agree. There is a place and time for discussions about Pastner's future and I am confident Batt is well ahead of us. It's his job. There is a lot more to consider than the happiness of Swarm members, even if we are the most public with our dismay. It has been made clear by several upstream on this thread that we need to make sure the next coach is an actual improvement over Josh. It will take what we are paying him plus quite a bit more if we expect measurable improvement in the near future. Where is that money to be sourced? Do we have enough deep pocket alums who care enough about hoops to make a difference? Finding them, if they exist, is Batt's real challenge. Then the meeting with Josh is easy for both men.
Batt needed money for football & the alums opened their wallets. All he needs to do is tell us "I didn't want to replace 2 head coaches in one year, but I need to". We'll pony up. We ALWAYS do.

We are not the laughing stock of the ACC.
Not any more, they pity us the few rare times we warrant any kind of attention from another fanbase. Even some of the mutt fans that hate us pity the state of our basketball and football programs. Most prefer we do nothing and continue to suck, so we just get ignored as if we don't exist.
 

Root4GT

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
749
What he has demonstrated is that he is not well coached. He is a multiple tool skilled player. That was evident in high school when he was rated as a top 100 prospect. Those skills have not been further developed nor has he been utilized in a way to leverage those skills to the benefit of the team.

Also, I do not need to convince you or anyone of anything.

By the way, toughness and quickness are not skills. Ball handling, passing, rebounding and playing on ball defense are skills.
I won't argue he hasn't been well coached. To be a high level college basketball player there are some physical attributes that make a significant difference in how well the player will perform in college vs High School. Having the quickness to play defense and create your own shots are qualities necessary to be a good basketball player. Of course you know that.

Coleman is fine bringing the ball up court uncontested. In a half court setting he has not demonstrated the ball handling ability to beat a defender off the dribble nor finish at the basket through normal contact, i.e., not a foul. Those are skills needed to be a good college basketball player.

Let's hope he is still at GT next year to see if he can demonstrate he is a good college basketball player, not just a 3 point shooter. If we have the same coaching staff I suspect we will see the same level of performance from Debo. His statistics this year are poor across the board. Of course everyone on the team's statistics are bad this year.
 

OG-T

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
207
The last two games have been significant regime lows. However, I support Pastner and the players as long as there are games to be played. Unwavering loyalty. Until there is an official change, count on my support. I like Pastner, I would love for him to have sustained success, or surprising success if there is a miracle ACCT run.

IF I’M GRANTED ONE MAJOR CRITICISM, Pastner knew in the preseason what we had at the 5 position, and he didn’t effectively scheme to run something OTHER than the Princeton. As a result, he did not maximize the current skill set of selected players, but even more crippling, he exposed a key weakness for the competition. It resulted in a fractured flow of the offense, created unreliable rhythm and momentum, and shook the confidence for players to consistently find comfort, which ultimately resulted in limited reliable growth for the majority of the roster. Now that the losing streak is a runaway train, and mental confidence is long lost, every minute of every game is a struggle, and we seem defeated by the exhaustion of it all before we ever get it going in a game.

Hope it turns around for these Players and this Program. If there is a change, then we’ll all prob need the media guide for all the new faces.
 

Peacone36

ACCBasketballReport.com
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9,778
Location
North Carolina
I am sure you are correct, but they are not the target audience of my post.

Because of where I live, my life is "blessed" by the friendship of a bunch of UNC, NC State, and Duke grads/fans. I hear frequently that they miss having GT being relevant in the ACC. We are not the laughing stock of the ACC. People want us to be more successful.
We are absolutely the laughing stock. Especially today following that loss. I just recorded a radio show where all I could do was laugh at the jabs because what is the defense?

This program, in that city, in that state, in that conference, to be this bad for this long is a TRAGEDY. We are Boston College south right now.

Do not even tell me about our GD ACCT championship in which the number 1 seed forfeited due to a glorified cold.

1 season in 7 within the top 170 in offensive efficiency

1 season in 7 within the top 155 in effective field goal percentage offense

1 season in 7 within the top 115 in tempo

Zero seasons in seven within the top 115 in 3pt shooting

1 season in 7 within the top 143 of defensive turnover percentage

But hey, we defend the three point line well. We have a 102-110 record and a single tournament game to show for it. Took most of us 7 seconds of the IDEA of this guy getting an interview to realize he wasn’t it and the people in charge let it run on for AT LEAST 7 years. We are the JC Penney of this league.
 

orientalnc

Helluva Engineer
Retired Staff
Messages
8,035
Location
Oriental, NC
We are absolutely the laughing stock. Especially today following that loss. I just recorded a radio show where all I could do was laugh at the jabs because what is the defense?

This program, in that city, in that state, in that conference, to be this bad for this long is a TRAGEDY. We are Boston College south right now.

Do not even tell me about our GD ACCT championship in which the number 1 seed forfeited due to a glorified cold.

1 season in 7 within the top 170 in offensive efficiency

1 season in 7 within the top 155 in effective field goal percentage offense

1 season in 7 within the top 115 in tempo

Zero seasons in seven within the top 115 in 3pt shooting

1 season in 7 within the top 143 of defensive turnover percentage

But hey, we defend the three point line well. We have a 102-110 record and a single tournament game to show for it. Took most of us 7 seconds of the IDEA of this guy getting an interview to realize he wasn’t it and the people in charge let it run on for AT LEAST 7 years. We are the JC Penney of this league.
Hey Peac, maybe it's just my perception after living in NC all these years, but you are the only one laughing. All these ACC fans living around me say the same thing, "We are pulling for ACC teams and Ga Tech should be a winner." No one here, even the Duke fans, are happy with what happened the other night.
 
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