Was our defense hamstrung in the past?

GTonTop88

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All I can say is that I heard him publicly criticize both Groh and Roof, but I never heard him publicly criticize Woody.
There was no point, it was his first year here and CPJs last. CPJ wanted to play a game where no easy points were given up and only 8 or so series were played. Him banking on the other team failing to not execute enough times in a row to get into the end zone and us executing enough to score.

So basically all of our defenses were mostly set up to stop the run within 3-4 yards and not to give up big pass plays. No matter who the defensive coordinator was they all resembled this philosophy.
 

Techster

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The defense was mainly hamstrung by the coaching staff's inability to recruit.

That will certainly be put to the test this year.

Pretty much the same roster, minus our best pass rusher and a starting LB, but new staff.

If this staff is able to turn this roster into a good to very good defense, then you have to ask questions. We'll see.
 

dressedcheeseside

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That will certainly be put to the test this year.

Pretty much the same roster, minus our best pass rusher and a starting LB, but new staff.

If this staff is able to turn this roster into a good to very good defense, then you have to ask questions. We'll see.
We lost a senior defensive tackle as well
 

GTRX7

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There was no point, it was his first year here and CPJs last. CPJ wanted to play a game where no easy points were given up and only 8 or so series were played. Him banking on the other team failing to not execute enough times in a row to get into the end zone and us executing enough to score.

So basically all of our defenses were mostly set up to stop the run within 3-4 yards and not to give up big pass plays. No matter who the defensive coordinator was they all resembled this philosophy.

Please go back and read articles quoting CPJ on any of his D coordinators. His D philosophy was always about “creating more negative plays and more turnovers.” That is the opposite of soft, prevent D where he just wants to “bank on the other team not executing.”

I am at the point where I have to believe anyone that thinks CPJ micromanaged the D to be soft is either trolling or has an agenda. Time for me to move on from this thread.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aj...-tech-defense/AdXKG6zMBbpj3qlG1vuGxN/amp.html
 

GTonTop88

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Please go back and read articles quoting CPJ on any of his D coordinators. His D philosophy was always about “creating more negative plays and more turnovers.” That is the opposite of soft, prevent D where he just wants to “bank on the other team not executing.”

I am at the point where I have to believe anyone that thinks CPJ micromanaged the D to be soft is either trolling or has an agenda. Time for me to move on from this thread.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aj...-tech-defense/AdXKG6zMBbpj3qlG1vuGxN/amp.html
Saying and doing are two different things. I could say I want a car with horsepower but if I buy a Prius you know I value other things than horsepower more. I’m not sure of our ranking on negative plays and turnovers but I’m sure we were near the 20 percentile maybe even 10%. What head coach doesn’t want a defense who creates turnovers and negative plays. I’m just saying we looked very conservative on defense 95% of the time.
 

dressedcheeseside

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Saying and doing are two different things. I could say I want a car with horsepower but if I buy a Prius you know I value other things than horsepower more. I’m not sure of our ranking on negative plays and turnovers but I’m sure we were near the 20 percentile maybe even 10%. What head coach doesn’t want a defense who creates turnovers and negative plays. I’m just saying we looked very conservative on defense 95% of the time.
At some point, you’re forced to change your philosophy if it just ain’t working. I wonder what our percentage was on quarterback pressures/sacks/TFL’s when we did blitz? My guess is in the 20 to 10 percentile. If you own a Prius you don’t put it in a drag race even if you love to drag.
 

56JacketDE

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i think the fact that all of spring ball and 2-a-days, when its 1's vs 1's, 2's vs 2's etc., and our defense was practicing against the option & all that entails from a shift in defensive schemes/techniques, had a more dramatic effect and was the main reason we had 4 DC's under Johnson...

those are time periods where you get to master your craft so to speak. Playing against cut blocks as a def linemen with little to no passing and poor pass blockers with wide line splits does not prepare you for what you face during the season both from a protections scheme standpoint as well as the techniques they used for both run and pass blocking.

if you practice against poor pass blockers, it is hard to get better at rushing the passer....

practicing against a scout offense comprised of reject option personnel trying to run a pro style offense during the season doesnt make you better either
 

bobongo

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i think the fact that all of spring ball and 2-a-days, when its 1's vs 1's, 2's vs 2's etc., and our defense was practicing against the option & all that entails from a shift in defensive schemes/techniques, had a more dramatic effect and was the main reason we had 4 DC's under Johnson...

those are time periods where you get to master your craft so to speak. Playing against cut blocks as a def linemen with little to no passing and poor pass blockers with wide line splits does not prepare you for what you face during the season both from a protections scheme standpoint as well as the techniques they used for both run and pass blocking.

if you practice against poor pass blockers, it is hard to get better at rushing the passer....

practicing against a scout offense comprised of reject option personnel trying to run a pro style offense during the season doesnt make you better either

That's a good point, about the two-deep against the two-deep practices. No way around the fact that in those our defense practiced against a scheme they weren't going to see in games. I used to think the difference in schemes wasn't all that much of a detriment to our defense, but a lot of posters including former players have pointed out why it was. Also, what you said about the scout team level of talent and the pass blocking differences... it all makes sense. Good post.
 

AlaJacket

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i think the fact that all of spring ball and 2-a-days, when its 1's vs 1's, 2's vs 2's etc., and our defense was practicing against the option & all that entails from a shift in defensive schemes/techniques, had a more dramatic effect and was the main reason we had 4 DC's under Johnson...

those are time periods where you get to master your craft so to speak. Playing against cut blocks as a def linemen with little to no passing and poor pass blockers with wide line splits does not prepare you for what you face during the season both from a protections scheme standpoint as well as the techniques they used for both run and pass blocking.

if you practice against poor pass blockers, it is hard to get better at rushing the passer....

practicing against a scout offense comprised of reject option personnel trying to run a pro style offense during the season doesnt make you better either

I agree 100%. I have seen the argument for years that it didn't matter what our offense was, because our scout team prepared the defense for the opponent. When you consider that the scout team was almost totally made up of players recruited for the 3O that argument just doesn't wash. When you look at how bad the pass protection of our starters was, do you really believe that the scout team's pass protection was any better? You know that (in general) they were not the same caliber of athletes, and they certainly weren't being coached like the starting offense in any respect. On the flip side, competitors negatively recruited by telling players that you'll be practicing against the 3O constantly if you go to Tech. Of course, this wasn't completely true, but it is easy to put this in the head of a 17 year old and just added to the recruiting problems. Pretty soon the defensive recruiting drops off, the defense deteriorates, and the defensive recruiting enters a downward spiral.
 

Whiskey_Clear

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i think the fact that all of spring ball and 2-a-days, when its 1's vs 1's, 2's vs 2's etc., and our defense was practicing against the option & all that entails from a shift in defensive schemes/techniques, had a more dramatic effect and was the main reason we had 4 DC's under Johnson...

those are time periods where you get to master your craft so to speak. Playing against cut blocks as a def linemen with little to no passing and poor pass blockers with wide line splits does not prepare you for what you face during the season both from a protections scheme standpoint as well as the techniques they used for both run and pass blocking.

if you practice against poor pass blockers, it is hard to get better at rushing the passer....

practicing against a scout offense comprised of reject option personnel trying to run a pro style offense during the season doesnt make you better either

That’s a different point than the one being discussed but it does dovetail into production on D and a general lack of pass rush.
 

Whiskey_Clear

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I was responding mainly to the actual thread title about was our defense hamstrung and my thoughts as to why they were at a disadvantage... certainly different than the recruiting argument

The most current debate isn’t about recruiting so much as a theory that CPJ “hamstrung” his DCs demanding a bend break scheme.

If true a lot of folks need to send Roof some letters of apology. :D
 

dressedcheeseside

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i think the fact that all of spring ball and 2-a-days, when its 1's vs 1's, 2's vs 2's etc., and our defense was practicing against the option & all that entails from a shift in defensive schemes/techniques, had a more dramatic effect and was the main reason we had 4 DC's under Johnson...

those are time periods where you get to master your craft so to speak. Playing against cut blocks as a def linemen with little to no passing and poor pass blockers with wide line splits does not prepare you for what you face during the season both from a protections scheme standpoint as well as the techniques they used for both run and pass blocking.

if you practice against poor pass blockers, it is hard to get better at rushing the passer....

practicing against a scout offense comprised of reject option personnel trying to run a pro style offense during the season doesnt make you better either
And once again the ol’ blame the O theory awakens from the grave. All I have to say is we shall soon find out.
 

slugboy

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i think the fact that all of spring ball and 2-a-days, when its 1's vs 1's, 2's vs 2's etc., and our defense was practicing against the option & all that entails from a shift in defensive schemes/techniques, had a more dramatic effect and was the main reason we had 4 DC's under Johnson...

those are time periods where you get to master your craft so to speak. Playing against cut blocks as a def linemen with little to no passing and poor pass blockers with wide line splits does not prepare you for what you face during the season both from a protections scheme standpoint as well as the techniques they used for both run and pass blocking.

if you practice against poor pass blockers, it is hard to get better at rushing the passer....

practicing against a scout offense comprised of reject option personnel trying to run a pro style offense during the season doesnt make you better either

I might agree, but when did we do a good job defending the option? You'd think we'd be ready for it, but I remember losing to Air Force in the 2010 Independence Bowl for one example. Last year, we were 81st in yards per rushing attempts on defense. Wouldn't practicing against a great run offense make us good and making reads and run defense?

Not saying you don't have a point, but we didn't seem to master any craft, defensively.
 

knoxjacket

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I might agree, but when did we do a good job defending the option? You'd think we'd be ready for it, but I remember losing to Air Force in the 2010 Independence Bowl for one example. Last year, we were 81st in yards per rushing attempts on defense. Wouldn't practicing against a great run offense make us good and making reads and run defense?

Not saying you don't have a point, but we didn't seem to master any craft, defensively.

1. Air Force scored 14 pts on 170 yds rushing. We just couldn’t score. This game proves his argument.
2. Defending our rushing attack probably doesn’t translate to other ground games.
 

LibertyTurns

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Well we were good at some things just not what you would want to be good at on defense.
I’m trying to remember what we were good at. Perhaps clean uniforms, limiting the number of plays opponents ran/dominating time of possession by letting them score quickly?
 
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