unc

1979jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
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569
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/news/will-strategy-pay-off-bite-north-carolina-214531527.html

So UNC is telling me these programs had nothing to do with the men's basketball program? Then that is worse than if they admitted these courses were for the basketball program. It kind of sorta degrades a UNC graduate degree. Also, I don't care what the lawyers say are possible under the rules, Penn State should have had to shut down football for 3 years and UNC should get severe recruiting limits set for several years. I'm not a go back in the past kind of judge but they should pay now.
 

northgajacket

Banned
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1,150
My prediction:

The football team will be get the massive penalties while the basketball team will get a slap on the wrist by the NCAA. They are not going to punish one of their cash cows.
 

GTpdm

Helluva Engineer
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Location
Atlanta GA
How utterly ridiculous. uNC's defense basically boils down to, "The SAs who were benefiting couldn't keep their mouths shut about an illegal benefit, so the general student body found out about it, and took advantage of it too. You can't penalize us, because our inability to hide our infraction from our own students is proof that we didn't do anything wrong..."

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,518
How utterly ridiculous. uNC's defense basically boils down to, "The SAs who were benefiting couldn't keep their mouths shut about an illegal benefit, so the general student body found out about it, and took advantage of it too. You can't penalize us, because our inability to hide our infraction from our own students is proof that we didn't do anything wrong..."

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I actually do agree that the NCAA shouldn't have any say in this matter. If the school had junk classes and junk degrees that were available to all students, it isn't an extra benefit to athletes(NCAA's area of authority). However, SACS should have yanked the entire school's(sic) accreditation. As far as I am concerned, UNC is basically no different than all of the degree mill for profit so called schools. If you have a degree from a school with such academic malfeasance, it should not count for: medical licensing, Bar Association membership, etc. I would even be happy if the ACC kicked them out of the conference. Unfortunately, the ACC let another less than academic institution in a few years ago to prop up football.
 

GTpdm

Helluva Engineer
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1,871
Location
Atlanta GA
I actually do agree that the NCAA shouldn't have any say in this matter. If the school had junk classes and junk degrees that were available to all students, it isn't an extra benefit to athletes(NCAA's area of authority). However, SACS should have yanked the entire school's(sic) accreditation. As far as I am concerned, UNC is basically no different than all of the degree mill for profit so called schools. If you have a degree from a school with such academic malfeasance, it should not count for: medical licensing, Bar Association membership, etc. I would even be happy if the ACC kicked them out of the conference. Unfortunately, the ACC let another less than academic institution in a few years ago to prop up football.
Ordinarily, I would agree with you...but did you read the full report that came out a couple years back, about what had been going on? It was pretty well-documented that it all started out when a staff member (NOT faculty) who was also an alumnus and admitted booster started taking advantage of her position (and lax supervision within her department) to create sham courses specifically for players, and assigning passing grades for them on the basis of ridiculously low expectations (i.e, writing a single grade-school level report). She had no authority to create the course (in an absent faculty member's name) or to assign grades for it. IIRC, they even documented that this individual met with AA staff—purportedly, with one or more head coaches in attendance—to discuss the potential fallout of university policy changes that might affect her ability to continue manufacturing these classes. I believe that at one point the "course offerings" were not even publicized through UNC's usual course catalog & registration procedures--they were only advertised via fliers available in the AA building. It was only as time passed that knowledge of these courses spread, through word of mouth, to the student body as a whole.

So it wasn't "UNC offering junk classes"--it was a booster acting behind the university's back to subvert standard academic policy—with the knowledge of he AA, who directed athletes to this person—as a way to keep athletes eligible. That is, without a doubt, an impermissible benefit. The fact that general student body eventually caught on to the existence of these courses does not mean that the initial implementation, and the subsequent, systematic, use of this mechanism to keep players eligible, was not an NCAA infraction.

As I understand it, UNC is already taking a lot of heat from university accreditation boards (SACS, in particular) for the laxness of their oversight of the African-American Studies department. From what I heard, the university as a whole was put on probationary status, which is the last step before revoking accreditation—so it's a pretty big deal, and I have no doubt that UNC's academic programs are spending a lot of time right now jumping through hoops to prove their academic accountability. But the fact that the university also has its hands dirty in this mess does not mean that the AA should get off the hook—they knowingly exploited the school's accountability gap to keep players eligible.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
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4,518
As I understand it, UNC is already taking a lot of heat from university accreditation boards (SACS, in particular) for the laxness of their oversight of the African-American Studies department. From what I heard, the university as a whole was put on probationary status, which is the last step before revoking accreditation—so it's a pretty big deal, and I have no doubt that UNC's academic programs are spending a lot of time right now jumping through hoops to prove their academic accountability. But the fact that the university also has its hands dirty in this mess does not mean that the AA should get off the hook—they knowingly exploited the school's accountability gap to keep players eligible.

I haven't read all of the details about this. My perfect scenario would be: NCAA drops investigation and refers everything to SACS as requested by the UNC athletic association, SACS removes accreditation from the entire University for lack of institutional control, NCAA expels UNC for lack of accreditation and academic fraud.

I don't understand how SACS has not as of yet revoked accreditation. I remember seeing instances where school admins and professors are extremely worried about: having the right documents in the right place, making sure that logs are properly filled out, and making sure that all of the qualifications of the profs are documented correctly. They are concerned that if there is an incorrect date on a log, or one document is missing from a file that accreditation will be revoked. In this case, a school admits that it gave out bogus course credits and bogus degrees. If SACS frightens people about not dotting i-s, they should have taken strong immediate action against UNC's level of wrongdoing. If SACS does not revoke accreditation, the they should loose respect.
 
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