The reports of the TO's death have been grossly exaggerated

Heisman's Ghost

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OMG.....I just connected some dots and realized the connection...Geoff was the Defensive Coordinator for Mississippi State that GT demolished in the 2014 Orange Bowl. He came to GT to make us look as bad as possible since that was his only opportunity for success.
Well, he had just left Mississippi State and they had an interim coordinator who, as I recall, was the defensive backs coach. They had good players on defense particularly in the line but it was just too much JT5 and PJ. The two of them were about 5 moves ahead of the poor soul tasked to defend the option on short notice. Geoff was not at the game and had left right after the Ole Miss game.
 

Heisman's Ghost

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And you could see CPJ fuming at Roof game after game. But firing Roof was a big political gamble because he was so beloved as a Tech legend.
At one point, can't say it was Roof as it could just as well been Al Groh, Coach Johnson complained that"... we look like we don't know what we are doing." I shudder to think what he would have said about Thacker. Blistered the walls probably.
 

Heisman's Ghost

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He was the head coach AND the OC. He was listed as both. Comments about him and his offense can be made in the vacuum of the offense because we didn't have to pay for an OC. CPJ the head coach still failed to field defenses. CPJ the OC did not.


The bolded part is the problem. What problems did the option bring? If the option "caused" a bad defense, then why has our defense regressed? What did the option actually bring to GT that caused problems?

People try draw these weird conclusions where "since GT runs the option, their defense must suck because the option" while ignoring every other potential variable. Maybe GT was bad on defense because there are systemic issues related to recruiting the DL necessary to run elite defenses at GT. Maybe the defenses were bad because we haven't had a competent DC since Tenuta. The college monetary arms race began while CPJ was our coach, and our AD at the time decided that he would rather sabotage CPJ to get him ran out as opposed to invest similarly to others (Duke had a bigger recruiting staff than GT, yet we blame CPJ and the option solely for bad recruiting lol). GT is still playing catch up to the arms race that other schools had a head start in.

I think CPJ was a great coach who was generally under appreciated by the loudest portion of the fan base. He retired and we moved on. I am fine with no more option. I take issue with blaming the option because it ignores all of the other issues that are plaguing GT. When all you think is "the option caused all our woes" you run into the current situation where you bring in a new OC and change nothing else and you end up worse than where you started.
In my opinion, FWIW (not much according to my wife) the best day of the game, sideline, whatever you want to call him, coaches have been Dodd, Ross, O'Leary, (with Ralph) and Johnson. You better have a decided edge in talent because if you didn't those guys would beat you, one way or another.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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That's what this whole thread is about. It is all sunshine and roses about how great things used to be, without reference to the times that it was really bad.

CPJ was infinitely more successful than CGC has been so far, and CGC has earned his criticism. But some folks are waxing poetically about how unstoppable the prior scheme was, and making the leap that scheme is what we have to do now.

It was really successful, except for when it really wasn't.

Simple point.

A lot of words that don't address the issue of the bald faced lie you posted...
 

Wrecked

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Well put. I believe most fans seem to forget how important the QB position is in the option. I think everyone will agree that JT was the best option QB at Tech. In 2014 and 2016 were good years because of our QB play. Taquon played with a ton of heart, but he was not at the same caliber as JT and our record showed. All I'm saying is that if CPJ was still here and Tobias Oliver was playing QB, I think we would have won 8 or 9 games from 2019 to present. The key to many offenses in any scheme is having a great QB.

A side note:

Those stating that the blocking scheme change would have affected CPJ'S offense. As many have mentioned that he was the grandmaster of the TO and a genius in in-game adjustments. Do you honestly believe that he would not have adapted his offense? He is way too stubborn to just settle. There probably would have been a learning curve in the new adjustments, but i feel that he would have been successful.
I’d go Gary Lanier as the best option QB at Tech
 

tomknight

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A lot of words that don't address the issue of the bald faced lie you posted...

Pretty accurate summary of this thread.

I find it interesting you choose this as your anecdotal hyperbole hill to die on.

I suppose it's ok to use such for the current staff and players, but about the old ones, and you get the staff member calling you a liar.

This whole thread is about the romantic revisionist history of the 30.

Maybe you don't read every post.

Anyways, I get it. CPJ and his O are off limits. Check.
 

RonJohn

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I suppose it's ok to use such for the current staff and players, but about the old ones, and you get the staff member calling you a liar.
They didn't clamp down on discussions about coaches until after Collins had been here for a little while. There were much, much worse things said about Johnson on this forum while he was here than has been allowed to be said about Collins. So much so that some posters have accused the moderators of favoring Collins over Johnson. I guess if both extremes are upset with how they are moderating, it must be pretty fair.

This whole thread is about the romantic revisionist history of the 30.
This type of comment to me is what prevents ANY discussion in ANY forum about ANY topic. If someone enjoyed the flexbone, then according to such posts they must 100% believe that the flexbone is a perfect offense that never ever ever fails to get a touchdown on every single play. If someone didn't appreciate Collins in 2020, they must hate GT.

It does no good to engage in a conversation if you don't even try to understand what the other side is trying to say. If every response to any statement pushes things to a 100% extreme on one side or the other, you will never foster any actual discussion. I do not believe that the world is only made up of Johnson boot kissers or Johnson haters. I did not believe last year that if you didn't love Collins that you were a GT hater. I think that on all of those issues there are people with different opinions, but that the majority on here are big supporters of GT football. I believe that we are much closer in thought than most people believe, but that the tone people use and the way people try to separate into opposing groups makes a small creek between us look like the Grand Canyon.
 

Randy Carson

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Pretty accurate summary of this thread.

I find it interesting you choose this as your anecdotal hyperbole hill to die on.

I suppose it's ok to use such for the current staff and players, but about the old ones, and you get the staff member calling you a liar.

This whole thread is about the romantic revisionist history of the 30.

Maybe you don't read every post.

Anyways, I get it. CPJ and his O are off limits. Check.
Rubbish.

CPJ had his faults and these have been acknowledged. Repeatedly.

But there are folks who prefer a pro-style offense, and they simply refuse to admit that the TO was (and still is) an effective offensive system that can be an equalizer for the teams running it.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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Pretty accurate summary of this thread.

I find it interesting you choose this as your anecdotal hyperbole hill to die on.

I suppose it's ok to use such for the current staff and players, but about the old ones, and you get the staff member calling you a liar.

This whole thread is about the romantic revisionist history of the 30.

Maybe you don't read every post.

Anyways, I get it. CPJ and his O are off limits. Check.

You are in a thread dedicated to the 3O and upset that people are discussing it with fondness. Since these subjects seem to cause you no end of dismay, might I suggest you feel free to quit reading and responding here.
 

VRTechFan

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at the same time it has always bothered me that the option or bust crowd refused to accept that paul was the head coach. he’s not the OC. that defense is just as much on him as the offense and special teams.

i really have no problem with the option as an offense. i just don’t understand why so many people refuse to accept the other problems it brought, and the only response when you bring that up is “bUt CoLLinS iS BaD!!” that is not really what anyone is arguing at this point.
The problem is there are going to be years where some defenses are just above everyone else. During the early Bud Foster years, people stated that he had our number due to our poor offensive performances against his defenses. However, CPJ made adjustments against his defenses over the years and ended up being successful. I believe CPJ would have had a game plan against the Clemson teams of late and probably would've sneaked an upset.
i think if it didn’t look so futile at times against uga and clemson that would have absolved a lot of the complaints. some years like 2016 against clemson felt exactly like our offense has felt this year. i think venables just had johnson’s number bad and there was no way we were gonna do anything about that
 

4shotB

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Fair enough. But I was asking because I actually wanted to understand. ;)

I didn't respond not bc I wasn't interested in a conversation. I declined bc no one will actually know if the TO limits the program until it is run at OSU, Bama, Texas, etc. That is the only way to control the variables. And, paradoxically enough, I don't see a blueblood team doing so. So I have no way of knowing if you are right or wrong. Nor do you or anyone else. BTW, I would love to see Texas or OU go back to their roots and try it, esp. when they join the SEC.
 

ibeattetris

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I believe CPJ would have had a game plan against the Clemson teams of late and probably would've sneaked an upset.
Clemson dared us to throw. We didn’t have the ability to do so against them. I think CPJ knew what to do, I just don’t think we had the pieces.
 

ibeattetris

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In 2015 Stewart dropped an easy TD, and JT missed jeune runnign free as well because he didn't have time to throw.
I know I didn’t clarify, but I was really referring to the post-JT years of ‘17 and ‘18. Our passing threat took a bit of a hit those years.
 

jgtengineer

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I know I didn’t clarify, but I was really referring to the post-JT years of ‘17 and ‘18. Our passing threat took a bit of a hit those years.

Ah. It really didn't matter JT or not because they played us the same way. The way to beat it was passing but we just never had time to throw because of those DL. Syracuse beat them one year by throwign quick slants the entire game.
 
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