The Biggest Political Scandal In The Last Several Decades

Discussion in 'The Swarm Lounge' started by bwelbo, Oct 25, 2017.

  1. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    The recent revelation that Hillary Clinton's campaign and the DNC paid for the fake dossier about Trump and Russia is to me one of the biggest scandals I can ever remember, and I'll explain why. I'd be interested to hear everyone's thoughts on it.

    First, here is the news of the leaking of who paid for it:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...6fabf0-b8e4-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html

    Remember, the FBI and the Intelligence Agencies used this fake dossier to justify a year long surveillance campaign and secret investigation of Trump and his campaign:
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/18/polit...-donald-trump-russia-investigation/index.html

    Remember the 30,000+ deleted emails from Hillary Clinton's secret server? Now given all this, who here thinks those were emails about Risotto and Yoga?

    Now who here thinks it can't be possible that the FBI and our Intelligence folks were unable to know this dossier was fake and that it was paid for by the Hillary campaign?

    Furthermore, all throughout that long period of surveillance, approved and run by the Obama Administration, remember all the tons and tons of times that Obama political officials were unmasking names from this surveillance.

    Look at some of the timeline stuff here:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5017507/Trump-rips-Clinton-campaign-role-dossier-hoax.html
    In particular, note on November 18th that McCain PAID to have one of his own people fly to Europe to get a copy of the fake dossier.

    This is a full on spying on a rival campaign for no justification, which was sponsored and managed by an existing administration (Obama), and rival campaign (Clinton), and the federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies...with evidence of complicity by establishment Republicans. Beyond McCain's involvement, the WP article states that a rival Republican candidate also helped pay for the dossier.

    Robert Mueller was Director of the FBI from 2001 to 2013. To be running the current investigation, which was now proven to be based on nothing, is such a complete conflict of interest. If I were Trump, I would fire Mueller immediately.

    This is really scary stuff - the collusion of all these agencies to influence a Presidential Election. I voted 3rd party (I lean to the right, but Trump was to big an a-hole to me), but imagine if Clinton had won the election and then we learned all this right now? I mean, the irony here is that when you look at the corrupt Uranium One deal with Russia (http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/24/politics/obama-era-uranium-deal/index.html) and the Russian donations to the Clinton Foundation (https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...ming-of-clinton-foundation-donation/23254671/) and all this up above - I mean, wow. It is actually Obama and Clinton who have been colluding with Russia all along.

    I just really can't believe all of this. This is like a silent coup to completely undermine our entire republic.
     
  2. LibertyTurns

    LibertyTurns Helluva Engineer

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    Mueller has his dirty paw prints all over the Russian Uranium Deal & bribery and kickbacks to the Clinton Foundation, and Hillary’s cover ups. If he doesn’t recuse himself along with all those tainted by their associations with the Russians they are so doggedly pursuing against others I guess Trump will have to fire him.

    Also I’m not a lawyer, but I’m guessing information gained via illegal means would not be able to be used. The illegal unmaskings were “authorized” based on information obtained illegally. This is a real mess. The politicization of the FBI to sway a presidential election is a completely unwelcome revelation. Those responsible need to be jailed for a very long time.

    I pray to God America finds someone capable of leading this great nation in 2020.


    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-fbis-political-meddling-1508883468
     
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  3. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    The reporting makes it look bad for both Mueller as the then head of the FBI and Rod Rosenstein as the US Attorney in charge of the investigation, if I understand correctly their responsibility to inform Congress. Indeed, even if they didn't have a legal responsibility, their decision not to not inform Congress, on ethical grounds, of the criminal activity by the Russians who were gaining control of 1/5 of our Uranium production is disturbing.

    I don't think that either AG Sessions or Trump can fire Mueller or Rosenstein, from a political perspective. It would get interpreted/spun like the firing of Comey as a way of stopping the investigation of Trump's association with Russia.

    I think that Trump and/or AG Sessions should give a speech in which they lay out what we know of what happened from 2009 to 2015 and publicly invite Mueller and Rosenstein to either recuse themselves or explain to the public why there is no conflict of interest, especially with the attorney on Mueller's staff who was attorney for the Clinton Foundation.
     
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  4. collegeballfan

    collegeballfan Helluva Engineer

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    Most of this was covered by the NY Times when and as it happened many years ago. I read every word.
    I will pull as much as I can out of the old brain.

    A Russian company bought a Canadian company that owned US uranium mines (the 20% of US production everyone is hollering about).
    As I recall the Russian company bought into the Canadian company, say 20%, and a few years later bought 51% and then 100% a few years after that.
    The stock sales of the Canadian company were approved by the Committee on Foreign Investment in the US, chaired by the Sec of Treasury and
    voted on by about 17 - 18 governmental departments. Simply do not recall when the Canadians bought the US mines, if I ever knew.
    Caveat: the Canadians are finally building that pipeline so don't up and scream if they sell it to Russia or China. (Bad decision by whoever made it.)
    All other governments involved, Canada, S. Africa (any country where the Canadian company owned mines) also approved the same sale.
    Do not believe congress had a legal role in the stock sale. This is all handled by controls established by Executive Order, Ford and Reagan I believe.
    All of this was in the NYT and no one raised a stink at the time. Congress seems to always have something besides the important stuff on its mind.
    Like maybe fundraising?

    As a separate matter I do not believe the FBI has an obligation to report any of its investigations to congress. In fact the opposite.
    Congress can ask questions and they may or may not get a reply. Check me on this!

    The gifts to the Clinton Foundations from the Canadian owner of the uranium company started while Hillary was still a senator per my memory.
    And I believe they were also gifts from other countries where the Canadian company owned mines.

    The Russian company subsidiary that owns the US mines is still headquartered in Canada (Toronto?)

    Again in the NYT as it happened but not a major issue by the press or congress. But politics were not involved as they are now.

    Hope this helps.
     
  5. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    If I understand correctly, the part not reported by the NY Times at the time was that the Russian Oil interests were engaging in bribery, kick-backs, and extortion in order to achieve the Uranium One deal. What was not reported was that the FBI was aware of this illegal activity for more than a year before the deal was approved. Furthermore, although the NY Times reported on it recently, they did not report 7 years ago that the board members of the Russian company contributed millions (reportedly up to 145 million) of dollars to the Clinton Foundation.

    I don't know if you came up with this "no there, there" response on your own or heard it from the media sources you trust, but it is not the whole story of what is being discussed now.

    The reason that Congress et al. did not "raise a stink" at the time was that they were unaware of all of this. I, like you, am unaware of the legal responsibility of the FBI and DoJ to Congressional Oversight. However, it has been reported that there was a legal responsibility, but the nature of that responsibility was unclear--so I just said "apparently" or "reportedly" when I mentioned it earlier.
     
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  6. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    @collegeballfan

    Sincere question:
    If it turns out to be true that Sec Clinton and AJ Holder knew that the Russians were using criminal tactics to aquire Uranium One and still approved the sale, what would be your opinion of them?
     
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  7. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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    I've also heard some, unverified to my knowledge, reports that uranium has been physically removed to destinations unknown as part of this mess. How ironic would it be if American uranium made its way to the DPRK to be used against us? A big question that needs to be answered is if this is true and if so where has the damn uranium gone to??

    The level of corruption or combination of corruption and incompetence is truly mind blowing. Either way it's indicative that the federal government is just too damn big to be trusted. As a kid I never thought I'd see Ameruca fall so far.

    And leaders on the left badly want to restrict our 1st and 2nd amendment rights. Holy hell.
     
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  8. northgajacket

    northgajacket Helluva Engineer

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    I think the federal govt. is an example of the citizens giving an inch and the feds taking a mile.
     
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  9. collegeballfan

    collegeballfan Helluva Engineer

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    Unfortunately in some quarters this may end up being the biggest political scandal.............................

    Peter Jesserer Smith
    WASHINGTON — Advocates for persecuted Christians and minorities in the Middle East received an unexpected “bombshell” of good news straight from Vice President Mike Pence on Wednesday evening, which may change the odds for the survival of Christianity in its historic cradle of Iraq.

    Pence delivered the keynote address at the JW Marriott hotel for the annual In Defense of Christians conference’s Solidarity Dinner, and told the hundreds of attendees that President Donald Trump has ordered the U.S. State Department “from this day forward” to stop funding the United Nations’ ineffective relief efforts. Instead, he said USAID would also funnel support to the churches, agencies, and organizations working directly with persecuted communities victimized by the Islamic State (ISIS) and other terror groups.

    “Christians in the Middle East should not have to rely on multinational institutions when America can help them directly,” Pence stated.

    “We will no longer rely on the United Nations alone to assist persecuted Christians and minorities in the wake of genocide and the atrocities of terrorist groups,” he added. “The United States will work hand-in-hand with faith-based groups and private organizations to help those who are persecuted for their faith. This is the moment, now is the time, and America will support these people in their hour of need.”
     
  10. LibertyTurns

    LibertyTurns Helluva Engineer

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    Congress has the responsibility for oversight of FBI.

    Whiskey- incompetence is not being able to determine something wrong is or is not going on when it’s reasonably known. Corruption is using your position of power to alter the outcome of events when you are aware of the facts.

    It’s clear what’s going on here has been systemic corruption by politically appointed leaders. What’s particularly troublesome is this hasn’t been some rogue element but was a fairly massive and apparently well orchestrated effort rising far up the leadership chain over an extensive period of time, maybe even to the top.

    The fact is persisted so long without a whistleblower being able to garner media attention in this day and age should concern every American. Sort of similar to what’s going on with the Hollywood perverts. Everyone knew it was wrong but the sheep just kept following along.
     
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  11. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    For whatever reason, Trump's DoJ is still stonewalling Congress.
     
  12. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    Sessions needs to give a speech, unrecuse himself based on the latest information, take the investigation over from Mueller. Spend a few weeks learning what all they've found. If there still isn't anything after a full year+, then just kill it. Give another speech that after all this time since there is nothing, there is no point in continuing with nothing. Furthermore, announce an investigation into the Clinton campaign, Obama Administration, Clinton Foundation, FBI, and Intelligence Agencies for corruption and collusion with Russia. We should be able to harness enough energy from all the media's heads exploding to free ourselves from oil for the next several years.
     
  13. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    Imo, there's no way in the present political climate Mueller, Rosenstein or McCabe can be fired. However, I still say there's enough evidence out in the public domain now, where they should be publicly invited to explain to the American people why there is no potential or appearance of conflict of interest by them not recusing themselves, especially the attorney on Mueller's team that represented the Clinton foundation.
     
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  14. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    Well, I thought that of firing Comey too. All these guys are worms and I wouldn't be surprised if Trump at least publicly brought up firing him, even if he didn't plan on doing it. He's pretty good at ruffling feathers like that.
     
  15. LibertyTurns

    LibertyTurns Helluva Engineer

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    Perhaps he’s not squeaky clean either. He’s almost assuredly cleaner than the filth that’s attacking him and he’s certainly cleaner than Hillary & her slimeballs. How much cleaner is the question?

    One thing is absolutely certain- he’s clearly not politically adept in the traditional sense, however like a cat no matter which way you try to spin it the cat always seems to land on is feet. I’m as amazed by that as I am how long Hillary managed to make it before she got royally publically slimed for her underhanded nastiness. She can’t pivot on them cankles fast enough to avoid the train wreck that’s coming her way this time.
     
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  16. RonJohn

    RonJohn Helluva Engineer

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    Other articles I have read said that a Republican paid Fusion GPS for investigation into Trump. However it was before Fusion contacted Steele to build the Dossier. The reporting on all of this is extremely sloppy. To determine who funded exactly what, you would have to put a timeline together of who funded Fusion at what time, and what time Fusion contacted Steele for the report. The WP article somewhat says that Fusion didn't contact Steele until after the Clinton campaign contacted them, but it is extremely subtle. If you don't pay attention to the exact wording, it sounds like the Republican paid for the dossier. However, if you pay exact attention, they didn't begin on the dossier until after the Republican stopped funding their investigation.
     
  17. awbuzz

    awbuzz Helluva Engineer

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    Have to love how the main stream doesn't point that out. Just heard a Senator comment the "the Republicans" paid for it.

    Also, the IRS is now "reaching settlements" with Tea Party related groups. How nice is that after crapping all over it and BO got off scot-free regarding the IRS hassling conservative groups.
     
  18. RonJohn

    RonJohn Helluva Engineer

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    The more conservative news organizations do the same thing. When I read (so-called) news stories, I try to read what is written and then re-organize it in my head. Places like the WP often stress more left ideas and gloss over more right ideas. Places like dailycaller stress right ideas and gloss over more left ideas. I try to gloss over fluff and just take in facts. I then draw my own conclusions.
     
  19. awbuzz

    awbuzz Helluva Engineer

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    Great point. Have to be willing to take in multiple news sources and not only those that "agree with what we think".
     
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  20. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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    I agree on the dossier timeline others above have cited. That appears to be the consensus on what is currently being reported.

    As for what Republican donor first paid Fusion to dig up Trump dirt. I think it's almost certainly a Bush supporter. That smear campaign was apparently dropped by that donor after Bush dropped out of the primaries. That narrows the field a bit. If the courts order Fusion to release financial records we will know for sure.
     

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