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Tax & spenders rejoicing across the land

Discussion in 'The Swarm Lounge' started by LibertyTurns, May 7, 2018.

  1. MWBATL

    MWBATL Helluva Engineer

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    How interesting. So, you get to impugn others based on YOUR interpretation of what that meant (NOT based on their actual words)..... you get to define the term ‘pure democracy’ and ridicule anyone else who uses the term differently.... you get to blast folks who decry ignorant people voting as dumping on democracy yet use the Churchill quote about how democracy sucks.
    Dude, you ain’t real
     
    GT_05 likes this.
  2. Lotta Juice

    Lotta Juice Ramblin' Wreck

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    Uggghhhhh I shouldn't be engaging but sometimes I'm too stubborn for my own good.

    I haven't frequently accused people of racism. I'm pretty sure there's only been one post of mine that was even adjacent to that and that was involving MWBATL and his desire to strip voting rights from some people. He seemed to harken back to times in the 1700's as a better system and I stated some facts about those times trying to understand exactly what he was saying. They were true facts and I'll stand by that. I'm still looking for his clarification on that. So I do think you are being a bit hyperbolic in your accusation. Hell, I only posted the link above after you mockingly cried "That's racist" to another post. I thought to myself, "wouldn't it be kinda funny if the quote that started this whole thing was coming from someone with a history of racist remarks?" And guess what...it took a whole 30 seconds of googling to find an article from a conservative website denouncing that guy's comments about a hurricane survivor.

    Quoting the article:

    "You would think a large portion of the CNN-hating, MSM-hating, free press hating “conservative” right would find in her a new folk hero, speaking back fiercely against what she sees as the exploitative press. But you’d be wrong, if retired big name AM talker and thought-leader Neal Boortz is any indication. I guess there’s some mystery group of people he likes even less than the press."

    I think that hits the nail on the head. If that "boorish" woman were a white MAGA hat wearing lady she would no doubt be praised by the right for sticking it to CNN and the crooked media. But she's not.

    Instead it's a black woman who is going through likely one of the worst times in her life and expressed some frustration and anger and the first thing this ******* wants to do is allude to the stereotype of a single black mother? And you just want to call her boorish? W.T.F.

    And even compared to the writers at that conservative website you still seem willfully blind to that.

    Also, after another minute of googling this same upstanding gentleman said the first black woman to represent Georgia in the House of Representatives looked like a "ghetto slut".
    http://articles.latimes.com/2006/apr/12/opinion/oe-kaplan12

    Does that meet your standard? Or does he actually have to wear a hood to qualify as a racist in your book? Or would there still be "fine people on both sides"?
     
  3. Lotta Juice

    Lotta Juice Ramblin' Wreck

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    No. I don't get to define "pure democracy". There is a definition of it. And I've explained it to you already after you used it incorrectly.

    And I'm still curious which "idiots" you think should not be able to vote? Anyone who thinks differently than you? You likely think I'm an idiot and shouldn't get to vote. And there lies the problem. But if you have an objective way in which you want to eliminate idiots from voting I'm all ears.
     
  4. ramblinwreckguru

    ramblinwreckguru Helluva Engineer

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    Just an idea, but maybe pass a law that citizens have to pass a written test on basic government and economic principles every 5-10 years to earn the right to vote?
     
    GT_05 likes this.
  5. ramblinwreckguru

    ramblinwreckguru Helluva Engineer

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    So you're saying there can't be white ghetto sluts too? If so, I beg to differ.
     
  6. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    Ghetto slut is a good one. That’s how you do it, you come with facts. I’ll ignore all the rest of your vile personal attacks. You can do better.

    Perhaps it’s helpful to point out I’ve literally been called a racist, a bigot, a murder, ignorant, and more by people on this board. So I am tired of the uncreative worn out garbage.
     
    GT_05 likes this.
  7. GT_05

    GT_05 Helluva Engineer

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    I don’t understand where you are coming from. As a society, are we supposed to avoid quoting somebody because they may or may not have done or said something unsavory in their past? If so, would you suggest we start burning books written by people who may or may not have done something unsavory in their past? I have visions of you feverishly typing Neal Boortz in Google thinking, “I’m gonna get them and win this argument.” I mean, we all know how accurate the Internet is. There was absolutely nothing about the quote I posted that was even remotely racist. You wanted to make this discussion about race and you did, in your own mind. Congrats!

    By the way, the original version of the quote can be traced to an article by the LA Times in 1990. You aren’t the only one who knows how to use Google. I guess you now think they’re racist too. Honestly, the only thing I know about the LA Times is that their poll was the only major poll that predicted a Trump win.

    http://freakonomics.com/2010/08/12/quotes-uncovered-if-wolves-and-sheep-could-vote/

    I’m done with this idiotic discussion. Back to taxpayers rejoicing or whatever this thread used to be about.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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    Troll........Sad.

    Are you on your way to Virginia to demand the resignations of their governor and AG?
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
  9. MWBATL

    MWBATL Helluva Engineer

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    Then you are suffering from a severe case of inability to read. I stated in my original post, and then reiterated in a reply when you went with the racist claim, that my reason for mentioning it was that the folks who could vote back then were TAXPAYERS. Has NOTHING to do with the color of their skin or their race, That, my friend, is ALL in your own imagination and as I said before, simply demonstrates your own bias.
     
  10. MWBATL

    MWBATL Helluva Engineer

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    I do wonder if you are in favor of universal voting rights, even if those using them are completely uneducated and ignorant and vote purely based on the most simplistic reasons (like someone looks good, or they are angry at "the man", etc).

    I do genuinely wonder if folks who cannot fathom basic economics, or have no idea where Syria is on a map, or have NO clue about how social security works, etc...do we really want those folks making decisions for us?

    The point I was making, which is still QUITE valid, is that our Founding Fathers did NOT want that. That was in their writings, plain as day. I am still waiting for you to refute that other than your claim that I am simply wrong (with no evidence supporting it).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

    "Democracy" apparently is a sacrosanct word for you, but I am not sure why exactly.
     
  11. Lotta Juice

    Lotta Juice Ramblin' Wreck

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    Yes you did later say that you were referencing taxpayers. While it varied a bit from state to state it was largely only white males who owned property who could vote. So to say race had nothing to do with it is wildly incorrect.
     
    bwelbo likes this.
  12. Lotta Juice

    Lotta Juice Ramblin' Wreck

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    Yes, I do think everyone should have equal voting rights. Because I agree with our Declaration of independence when it says all men are created equal. And that's how they should be viewed in the eyes of the government. I'm actually really surprised to get this much resistance on this point.

    And democracy is important. How do you think we elected or first president?
     
  13. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    11,985
    That’s the land mine you have to watch out for. Something that sounds like a good idea today could have been grounded in racism in the past. Just like a poll tax.

    Today, 60% of households pay a combined aggregate of 0 federal income taxes. That’s absolutely ridiculous - it’s exactly where many democracies run into trouble - the majority can vote for a small number of people to have to pay for all their goodies.

    In my opinion, even if it’s small at like 2%-5%, everyone should pay something. And we definitely shouldn’t have tax rates over say 40%. Some states have 10-15% tax rates on their own. Rich people can find ways to hide their tax liabilities and move money overseas. It’s why when we cut tax rates on high earners that tax revenue always increases substantially.
     
  14. ramblinwreckguru

    ramblinwreckguru Helluva Engineer

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    I'm fairly certain than the statement that "all men are created equal" has to do with equal 'rights' and treatment under the law. I believe that voting was meant to be a privilege for those with skin in the game, not a 'right' as some have bastardized it.
     
  15. Lotta Juice

    Lotta Juice Ramblin' Wreck

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    I guess if you want to consider the 15th amendment "bastardizing it" then that's your opinion man. I disagree
     
  16. ramblinwreckguru

    ramblinwreckguru Helluva Engineer

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    15th Amendment - "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude."

    19th Amendment - "The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex."

    24th Amendment - "The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax."

    26th Amendment - "The right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of age."


    While voting is stated as a "right" in the amendments above, the only qualifiers against discrimination are based on race, color, previous condition of servitude, sex, voting tax, and age for those at least 18. Nothing would prevent congress from passing a law to require some knowledge of economy or US government in order to have the "right" to vote.
     
  17. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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    12,650
    All citizens have the right to vote. But some are so ignorant I really wish they wouldn’t.
     
  18. MWBATL

    MWBATL Helluva Engineer

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    @bwelbo answered this already when he pointed out that we all agree that people should NOT be excluded because of race, color, creed, or sex. Now, ignorance is another matter. Hell, let's let children vote...they're people too! I do not and never have advocated for discrimination. That's all in YOUR head, dude!

    I am also surprised that you don't seem to care much about minority rights. Our Constitution was designed in many ways to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. I never thought I'd see so much opposition to that point from the left, but you seem so hung up on a word )"democracy") with little discussion or understanding of this critical point.

    Oh, and NO WHERE in the Constitution does it guarantee the Right to Vote. As @Whiskey_Clear
    has so eloquently pointed out, the amendments are there to prevent discrimination, but in theory, we could go back to a system where you must be a taxpayer to vote and that would NOT be unconstitutional. (At last, not outside the ridiculous 9th Circuit).

    So, I am baffled as to why you think it is a bad idea to have ignorant idiots voting. Mobs have done lots and lots of things wrong over the years, and that's a definition of democracy.

    Plus, I am beginning to think that you agree that pure democracy, by its strict definition, is a bad idea. But I then have trouble understanding where you draw the line between complete representation and 'democracy'.
     
  19. MWBATL

    MWBATL Helluva Engineer

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    Actually, no...to say that voting rights were determined by race is wildly incorrect. In most states, if you owned property, you could vote.

    Once free, Africans and African Americans (blacks imported to Virginia from the West Indies or second- or third-generation Africans born in Virginia) were expected to live as members of the community, to become in some respects "black Englishmen." This meant owning land, voting, and paying taxes; it also meant keeping their lives separate from enslaved blacks.

    So, dude, you brought up the race card in this discussion, and you did so because.....well, you tell me (I think it is because the left wing can only stay in power for fomenting anger and hatred over racism that is not a significant part of American life anymore, and since you identify with the left....well, there you are. So many things get viewed in racist terms).
     
  20. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    11,985
    After spending several billion dollars, California is killing its high speed rail project, LOL. You can hear AOC vomiting right now. She’s toast as are about 5 or 6 dozen Democrats. Even the most far left loony state in the Union couldn’t make it work for just 1 stretch of track.

    But wait! It gets better. California is going to start over with ANOTHER high speed rail project, to connect 2 OTHER cities: Merced and Bakersfield. No I am not making this up. This is the most hilariously pitiful farce. You have to hear it to believe it:
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/gov-newsom-ending-high-speed-201603507.html
     

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