Rocket Toss Observation

johncu

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
209
Is it just me, or has the rocket toss become less and less effective since PJ has been here? It seems like in 2008-2011 we would just run that play repeatedly and usually get a solid gain unless somebody outright whiffed on a block. Every once in a while a team would blow up the edge and shut us down (a la Miami 2009) but that was rare.

Now it seems like we get stuffed as often as not when running that play against decent competition. Assuming I'm not just imagining that, what's the reason? Have teams adjusted and keyed on it? Are we not blocking as well on the edge? A-back talent may have dropped off, but I don't think that's the reason, because many of those runs were simply guys running into open space for the first 6-8 yards.

Thoughts?
 

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,661
If the D is jumping on motion, they can shut the play down. But that sets up the counter for a huge gainer. We killed USCw with the counter, they were jumping motion real bad.
 

Yaller Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
813
I kinda agree, but more than the rocket toss, the pay which used to get yardage at least some of the time was the wide pitch to the A back. As the OP says, in recent years our guy never turns the corner. More often than not there isn't just one defender but several. Some time ago someone said how effective Robbie was at turning the back inside. Most of the time that was all he could do; there was nothing around the edge. I am mostly a TV fan and you really can't see the whole defense on TV. But somehow the good (and even the only pretty good) defenses always seem to cover our wide game with little problem.
 
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2,077
I kinda agree, but more than the rocket toss, the pay which used to get yardage at least some of the time was the wide pitch to the A back. As the OP says, in recent years our guy never turns the corner. More often than not there isn't just one defender but several. Some time ago someone said how effective Robbie was at turning the back inside. Most of the time that was all he could do; there was nothing around the edge. I am mostly a TV fan and you really can't see the whole defense on TV. But somehow the good (and even the only pretty good) defenses always seem to cover our wide game with little problem.

Our success on the perimeter in 2008 to 2010 even was phenomenal and almost always involved a numerical advantage for us on the edge. My assumption is that the quarterback calls left-or-right from the get go based on defensive numbers. Then, as the play moves down the line, DE is read, LB and/or corner is blocked by our OL and WR at the second level. Quarterback and A-back arrive at the edge with one, or at most, two defenders to beat and a clearly defined running lane to exploit for five to ten yards. Lately, we often arrive at the edge out manned by the defenders present. Some of that is very fast LB pursuing cross field from the non-play side. Some of it, I think is losing the one-on-one battles on the line and second level. But I distinctly recall several tosses where we were facing 2 against four or two against five numbers--and of course, these plays were killed.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,487
Lets see how well VT "has figured it out" in a few weeks. I'm betting we could run for 500 yards in that one and the naysayers would just say VT is down this year. I'm looking forward to that game. VTs D should still be stout so I'm not bankning on 500 yards. But I think we will be successful against them.
 
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2,077
Lets see how well VT "has figured it out" in a few weeks. I'm betting we could run for 500 yards in that one and the naysayers would just say VT is down this year. I'm looking forward to that game. VTs D should still be stout so I'm not bankning on 500 yards. But I think we will be successful against them.
If we run for 500 yards, we win. You need not be a "naysayer" to declare Va Tech as being down. I think they are down. They were down last year. They have had 3 not great recruiting classes, they have changed OC's they have gotten very pedestrian quarterback play for two years. I expect them to be beaten soundly by an Ohio State team with superior personnel and coaching. They should handle East Carolina and then get us at their place. I think we have a chance to win that game, and I hope we do, but they are down, that is not even debatable.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,487
Its debatable until the results, games played, come in. I expect them to be pretty good again. Their D is always stout and I doubt that changes much this year. Their O was near awful last year at times. I would expect that to improve but we will have to wait and see.
 
Messages
2,077
Its debatable until the results, games played, come in. I expect them to be pretty good again. Their D is always stout and I doubt that changes much this year. Their O was near awful last year at times. I would expect that to improve but we will have to wait and see.
Okay, debate with yourself. They are not the Virginia Tech of days of yore. No Vick, no Tyrod, no preseason Top Ten ranking. The fact that we are even entertaining the idea of beating them in Blacksburg is the tip-off. They are down.
 

alaguy

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,117
Okay, debate with yourself. They are not the Virginia Tech of days of yore. No Vick, no Tyrod, no preseason Top Ten ranking. The fact that we are even entertaining the idea of beating them in Blacksburg is the tip-off. They are down.
They may be down but we have got to play a helluva lot better UP THERE -than the game last yr).They have our number like us with unc it seems.
 

LibertyTurns

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,210
Maybe we can pre-declare the "down" teams ahead of time so we don't have to fret about recharacterizing all of our wins later in the season.

I'll start: Wofford sucks, Tulane blows, Southern is weak, Chokies are down, Miami has too many players in jail, Duke was an aberration last season, UNC lost all their players to misconduct, Pitt is Pitt, UVA is crap, NC St is dreaming, Clemson's not the team they were last year, and the Mutts are overrated with a clown for a QB. See we're 12-0. If we lose any, fire the coach. Where do I purchase tickets for the Championship game?
 
Messages
2,077
Maybe we can pre-declare the "down" teams ahead of time so we don't have to fret about recharacterizing all of our wins later in the season.

I'll start: Wofford sucks, Tulane blows, Southern is weak, Chokies are down, Miami has too many players in jail, Duke was an aberration last season, UNC lost all their players to misconduct, Pitt is Pitt, UVA is crap, NC St is dreaming, Clemson's not the team they were last year, and the Mutts are overrated with a clown for a QB. See we're 12-0. If we lose any, fire the coach. Where do I purchase tickets for the Championship game?
For pity sake, here are Virginia Tech's wins for the last nine seasons: 11, 10, 11, 10, 10, 11, 11, 7, 8. Nobody said they sucked. Their worst years in a decade are like our best, and in those "down" years they still spanked us.
 

Squints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,035
Maybe we can pre-declare the "down" teams ahead of time so we don't have to fret about recharacterizing all of our wins later in the season.

I'll start: Wofford sucks, Tulane blows, Southern is weak, Chokies are down, Miami has too many players in jail, Duke was an aberration last season, UNC lost all their players to misconduct, Pitt is Pitt, UVA is crap, NC St is dreaming, Clemson's not the team they were last year, and the Mutts are overrated with a clown for a QB. See we're 12-0. If we lose any, fire the coach. Where do I purchase tickets for the Championship game?

That's not how it works. The teams we will beat are terrible so the wins don't really mean anything and the teams we will lose to we should have beaten so they're just embarrassing losses. Everyone's bad. But we're obviously worse. Duh. Everyone knows that.

Okay, debate with yourself. They are not the Virginia Tech of days of yore. No Vick, no Tyrod, no preseason Top Ten ranking. The fact that we are even entertaining the idea of beating them in Blacksburg is the tip-off. They are down.

For pity sake, here are Virginia Tech's wins for the last nine seasons: 11, 10, 11, 10, 10, 11, 11, 7, 8. Nobody said they sucked. Their worst years in a decade are like our best, and in those "down" years they still spanked us.

Sounds like you've already written your narrative before the season starts. Nice.

I mean what happens if VT beats Ohio State? Are they still down? Or does that not count because OSU doesn't have their starting QB? It's too early to be calling a team down.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,487
Stop the presses. JBR has got this people. No need for Condie to waste her time. JBR obviously has the 4 playoff teams selected. No need to even play the games now. Well....of course they will play the playoff games. Just no need for any regular season games.
 
Messages
2,077
That's not how it works. The teams we will beat are terrible so the wins don't really mean anything and the teams we will lose to we should have beaten so they're just embarrassing losses. Everyone's bad. But we're obviously worse. Duh. Everyone knows that.




Sounds like you've already written your narrative before the season starts. Nice.

I mean what happens if VT beats Ohio State? Are they still down? Or does that not count because OSU doesn't have their starting QB? It's too early to be calling a team down.
There's no narrative. It was a simple (and correct) statement about one team on our schedule--Va Tech. That has been extrapolated by others to include the entire schedule. This is not hard to digest. If we beat them, and I want us to, and I think we might be able to, it will still not be comparable to beating them in 2009. It will be great, but it won't be a "great win".
 
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