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Religion and Politics cont

Discussion in 'The Swarm Lounge' started by Northeast Stinger, Oct 28, 2016.

  1. Northeast Stinger

    Northeast Stinger Helluva Engineer

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    A couple of things have been on my mind the last couple of weeks.

    First, my wife and I were leaf peeping in Western North Carolina last week and stopped into a coffee shop for breakfast. It was a cool little place with friendly people and good food. As we were paying our bill and leaving I saw a sign by the exit door. It was inviting everyone to come to the restaurant the day after the elections for a prayer and meditation event. The purpose was to pray for who ever gets elected and to pray for healing for our nation. I have been thinking about that sign every since. Whatever happens on November 8 we the people will have a lot of work to do restoring civility and good will across political divides.

    The second thing is my growing concern over Russian hacking. When Mitt Romney (and others) said that the Russians were America's greatest threat, no one seemed to take him seriously. Our intelligence agencies now tell us that attacks have come directly from Putin's command and that both candidates have been briefed on this. The latest I have heard is that the GRU is planning a cyber attack on November 8. The purpose now goes beyond influencing the election, that boat sailed once the Russians were forced to dump their files on Julian Assange, but now apparently has the purpose of discrediting the democratic process. It is scary how the Russians are working overtime to undermine confidence in our system.

    In the midst of a highly partisan election (what election isn't anymore?) I feel like taking a deep breath and focusing on the bigger picture. We are all Americans and whoever is President will be president of all the people. We have too many threats abroad these days to lose sight of that.
     
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  2. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Banned

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    @Northeast Stinger
    That's a great sentiment you expressed. I wish I felt more like that myself but honestly do not. I can place no trust in politicians that have been proven corrupt. I've seen enough to believe that about Hillary beyond a reasonable doubt.

    You are absolutely correct about 2 things. This country needs some prayers and Russia is without doubt the biggest threat to our nation and the world. Putin is an evil man IMO and I've never cared for W, Cheney, Obama, Kerry, Biden, or Hill expressing any sort of admiration for him (all have at different times). I probably wouldn't make a very good diplomat though.

    I always appreciate your posts though. We often disagree on politics and often agree on football. Regardless of our differing positions I respect your thoughts. My wife tells me I come across a bit combative once I take an adamant stance on an issue. So I hope you don't take my conviction in this matter as a personal attack. It's just an attack on your convictions :)
     
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  3. up state jacket

    up state jacket Banned

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    BS! The she devil is killing babies left and right. She shook hands with the man that knocked down the world towers. She takes $ from our enemies for what in return? She cares about hellary clinton and that is it. Anyone voting for her is either ignorant or is a true enemy of the state. She is as bad as it gets. You say she prays. I'm asking is to Allah? It sure isn't the Lord of Lords Jesus Christ. Actions speak volumes.
     
  4. BuzzStone

    BuzzStone Helluva Engineer

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    This is a major problem here in the US. Until we can get a true leader that doesn't believe in fairy tales were doomed. Anytime you put religious qualifications on a candidate your moving toward a theocracy
     
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  5. up state jacket

    up state jacket Banned

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    You BELIEVE what u want and I will do the same. Abortion is a moral sin and murder. Allowing our troops to get slaughtered by a group that she funds is criminal and also a moral sin. She has soo much blood on her hands its scary. You're right it's problem that no one will stand for Christ and his principles. I'm not ashamed for my stance and I'll pray for the will of God to take care of our country. Demon-crats are responsible for 99% of the hate that has transpired during this election.
     
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  6. JacketFromUGA

    JacketFromUGA Helluva Engineer

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    Trying to say another group is responsible for hate. purposefully change their names in a hateful way.

    ok.
     
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  7. Northeast Stinger

    Northeast Stinger Helluva Engineer

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    Heard a sermon this morning in church in which the minister reminded the congregation that the heart of Jesus's message to those who would follow him was it is less important to be right than it is to be loving. And, I would add parenthetically, that without love all religion becomes like the Taliban, regardless of who you say your worship.
     
  8. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Banned

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    Well said.

    To some others. I think one of our biggest tragedies as a nation is legalized abortion. I find it hard to accept much justification for it. The one cited most stringently by the left is the case of threat of death to the mother for unforeseen complications. Funny they never also cite how often this occurs and would apply.

    Abortion IMO is murder of the unborn because the mother is unwilling to accept the responsibility of unprotected sex. That is truly tragic to me and the height of irresponsible selfishness. The mother could give the child up for adoption after birth instead. (This would create other problems for society but they would be solveable.)

    But it is what it is and I think those of us who oppose abortion too often forget solutions other than legal ones. I think we fail at changing hearts and minds. If we could do this better we would save countless lives. Difficult endeavor but worth the effort. A tricky augment that needs to be won with more reason than passion.

    Some will never be swayed though. They will argue no one knows when intelligent life begins in the womb. That argument always mystifies me and better argues the reason to ban or prevent even early abortions IMO.

    Stepping down from soap box now.
     
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  9. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    The incoherence of reading @BuzzStone @JacketFromUGA and @Whiskey_Clear was enough to get me to show ignored content.

    At least, I now understand yalls posts and how religion was brought in.

    Fwiw, I don't think people who misunderstand the bible to justify denying its truth for the sake of "love" are any more or less right than those who misunderstand it to justify supporting its truth for the sake of hate.

    By the way, @Whiskey_Clear, I could have told you @Northeast Stinger would never support his assertions with data.
     
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  10. JacketFromUGA

    JacketFromUGA Helluva Engineer

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    You'll find that the vast majority of prochoice advocates agree with you. It's just usually they purpose funding other methods of preventing those pregnancies from ever happening like earlier more comprehensive sex ed and access to preventative measures. It's just those methods are in my experience yelled down with shouts of ABSTINENCE!
     
  11. up state jacket

    up state jacket Banned

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    What does this mean? I have pretty good reading comprehension skills, but this makes zero sense to me. Can someone please explain that gets this?
     
  12. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    So you think the majority of pro choice advocates support legalizing what they consider murder? "We agree that it's murder, but because we disagree with your morals, we're going to support keeping it legal."

    Sad. I can't believe anyone actually thinks that way. I think it much more likely that they ignore the question so that they don't have to deal with the fact they are complicit in the death of 50+ million legal murders since 1973.

    The holocaust pales in comparison.
     
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  13. BuzzStone

    BuzzStone Helluva Engineer

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    That is a major difference, you believe in a morally corrupt book with no evidence to believe it whatsoever and then like to push your personal beliefs on a country through its leadership. That is a theocracy and its a terrible form of government. I am personally happy that very few in this country stand for your christ. If you have read the christian bible and followed the letter of the law according to it this country would be in bad shape. Say what you will about the muslims but those people believe their book. Unless you think its ok for the muslim majority to propagate their religion through politics yours should be left out as well.
     
  14. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    Well, I don't agree with his rhetoric, but I do support free speech. I also support the right of everyone to participate in our democracy. I also support freedom of religion.

    Your post suggests that you don't support those things. It kinda makes you sound Unamerican.

    By the way, your post also makes clear that you don't know what you are talking about with respect to the Bible.
     
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  15. up state jacket

    up state jacket Banned

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    I just can't comprehend the concept of KILLING a little one in the womb after you've seen the ultra sounds. NOW they are trying to make it legal to have one a day before birth. How far are we willing to go as a society to stop unwanted children? Prochoice people need to look in the mirror and ask themselves one question. What if my mother had decided to stick a long sharp mettle rod in the back of my head while I was in the womb. You better thank God above she didn't. I pray every day for clarity on these issues and there is nothing more clear that killing unborns is barbaric and has no place in our society. People cry BLM movement is necessary because a small percentage of blacks being killed by police. Who cries out for the ones that can't defend themselves. Get ur heart right Jacket from ugay.
     
  16. up state jacket

    up state jacket Banned

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    Well said AE. All we can is pray for these fools. Yes they are fools. Eternity is so much longer than life on this planet. I'm content with where i'm at and where i'm going. Please have someone help you to reread the Bible. The book is full of love, justice, forgiveness, injustice and how to achieve eternal bliss. Nothing immoral about that. Our country is in bad shape because we have turned away God's law. Man is the problem not God. Muslims have every right in this country and I believe the commander in chief might just be one, so keep reaching.
     
  17. BuzzStone

    BuzzStone Helluva Engineer

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    I support free speech, I have made that clear. If you read what I wrote I don't support forcing it on others through government. If people want to believe in fairytales their whole life I could care less when they try to legislate their asinine beliefs in my life we have a problem.

    And please tell me how I am wrong about the Bible, I have read it cover to cover and I doubt many here have done that. The best medicine for a christian is to read the book. If you can support that type of god in any way your a very scary person. All these people in this thread talking about abortion and not even knowing that the Bible not only condones abortion it gives instructions how to do it.
     
  18. up state jacket

    up state jacket Banned

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    Please quote scripture? Don't throw it out there w/out back up. I really feel sorry for people like you.
     
  19. up state jacket

    up state jacket Banned

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    God speaks very clearly in the Bible on the value of unborn children. God’s Word says that He personally made each one of us, and has a plan for each life:

    Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart.
    Jeremiah 1:5

    Even before I was born, God had chosen me to be His.
    Galatians 1:15

    For You created my inmost being; You knit me together in my mother’s womb… Your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in Your book before one of them came to be.
    Psalm 139:13, 16

    Your hands shaped me and made me… Did You not clothe me with skin and flesh and knit me together with bones and sinews? You gave me life.
    Job 10:8-12

    This is what the Lord says—He who made you, who formed you in the womb
    Isaiah 44:2

    Did not He who made me in the womb make them? Did not the same One form us both within our mothers?
    Job 31:15

    Because man is made in God’s own image (Genesis 1:27), each life is of great value to God:

    Children are a gift from God.
    Psalm 127:3

    He even calls our children His own:

    You took your sons and daughters whom you bore to Me and sacrificed them… You slaughtered My children.
    Ezekiel 16:20,21

    The Bible says of our Creator,

    In His hand is the life of every living thing and the breath of every human being
    Job 12:10

    God, the giver of life, commands us not to take the life of an innocent person:

    Do not shed innocent blood.
    Jeremiah 7:6

    Cursed is the man who accepts a bribe to kill an innocent person
    Deuteronomy 27:25

    You shall not murder.
    Exodus 20:13

    Taking the life of the unborn is clearly murder—

    He didn’t kill me in the womb, with my mother as my grave.
    Jeremiah 20:17

    —and God vowed to punish those who…

    ripped open the women with child
    Amos 1:13

    The unborn child was granted equal protection in the law; if he lost his life, the one who caused his death must lose his own life:

    If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman, and she gives birth prematurely, but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined …if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life.
    Exodus 21:22,23

    Life is a gift created by God, and is not to be taken away by abortion. God is “pro-choice,” but He tells us clearly the only acceptable choice to make:

    I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live
    Deuteronomy 30:19

    Author: Lynn Copeland. Excerpted from The Evidence Bible from Ray Comfort of Living Waters Publications. Web page Copyright © 2002, Living Waters Publications, All Rights Reserved - except as noted on attached “Usage and Copyright” page that grants ChristianAnswers.Net users generous rights for putting this page to work in their homes, personal witnessing, churches and schools.

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    I can't seem to find the abortion manual you're speaking of?
     
  20. AE 87

    AE 87 Helluva Engineer

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    Democracy is about all citizens having a voice in what is best for the country.

    Name one piece of legislation requiring others to accept something you consider a fairy tale from the Bible?

    As far as I know, the only people legislating accepting of fairy tales are those saying Darwinian evolution should be taught as science. I'm still waiting for you to start a thread where you defend that nonsense.

    You asserted the Bible is morally corrupt with no evidence to support it. That is of course nonsense. You may not agree with Christianity, but it's 2000 years of history undermine the suggestion of moral corruptness at the core of its teaching.
     
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