Recruiting or coaching

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,853
Cant fire the players or the fans.

Must recruit and have winning culture.

Get good players and promise them you will fire the position coaches that cant develop the players.

2. If that doesnt work , promise them u will fire the coordinatoors.

3. If that doesn't work , fire the coach.

4. Then the AD.

Got to show the gtaa the Benjamins if u want to be top tier.
 

JacketOff

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,742
And Jim Grobe was a very good coach as well.
A career .492 coach who’s biggest job was probably as a spot holder at Baylor after the Briles scandal. I guess we have different definitions of what a “very good” coach is.
 

7979

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
165
Location
Nashville
In addition to recruiting and coaching, there is the much over-looked component of Senior player leadership...commanding respect in the locker room and demanding accountability on the field during practice and games that no amount of coaching from the sidelines can replace. Freshmen and Sophs cannot do it.... it must come from upperclassmen.
It is looking around the huddle and saying, "They are not getting this first down."...or "We are getting these two yards." or on the sidelines calling teammates together and saying "We are not losing this damn game."...it is calming and inspiring... good teams always have it...ALWAYS...
It cannot be coached-up....
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
6,424
I think what Saban has demonstrated is that IT ALL MATTERS. Recruiting, schemes, coaching, development, strength, uniforms, technology, money, fans, brand.

So few coaches want to be involved in so much minutia, but it all makes a difference. It’s 100 things each contributing 1%.
It does not leave room for much else. I’ll see if I can dig it up, but Saban’s toast at his daughter’s wedding was almost that she’s “sneaky athletic” and a “coach on the field” and “has a lot of grit”.
 

danny daniel

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,223
And we can describe two types of basic coaching. 1. conditioning/physical development, organization of staff (and staff selection) and practices, teaching fundamentals/discipline/techniques, finding the right fit for players. 2. game prep for the opponent, game day management (includes decisions like coin toss, go for it or punt, go for field goal or first down/TD, when to take time outs, when to hurry up or run the clock, when and who to substitute, scheme adjustments, play calling on O and D as examples). There are lots of other duties that probably have less impact on winning. Bear Bryant said he was better at 1. and Bobby Dodd was better at 2. They were pretty good at both. Recruiting I am not addressing.

As a fan I do not have much insight on 1. although I have some opinions on player fit and use in the game. On game day it has been obvious that we have a multitude of coaching problems with 2 that come and go. Therefore not fixed.
 

swarmer

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
606
CPJ is a good example of this. When he had the talent, he could beat the best teams on our schedule. Even when he didn't have the best talent, he was winning against teams that out recruited us, but the gap against the higher level teams (UGA, Clemson) showed.

Personally, I take the coach that develop talent and can at least recruit in the middle of the conference pack over a guy that can recruit in the upper levels of conference but can't coach his way out of a wet bag.
CPJ would have been more interesting if he would have invested in recruiting and found coaches like CTC and CMC that could go recruit high end guys. Instead, he just kept his buddies around (which is detriment to many coaches, not just PJ) and hired a bunch of washed up old D Coordinators.
 

RyanS12

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,805
Location
Flint Michigan
Quality of coaching is always number one.

In addition, a good quality coach also knows how important it is to hire good quality assistant coaches.
This is true but it also helps when you have a lot more money to pay out to get those quality assistants. We unfortunately, do not have that luxury….
 

ibeattetris

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,689
CPJ would have been more interesting if he would have invested in recruiting
It would have been interesting if the acting athletic director would have given CPJ the recruiting staff he asked for for years.

CPJ wasn't a good recruiter, but the man had 2 recruiting staff for the majority of his tenure while his competitors were in the 10-20 range. It is not surprising that we were being out recruited. TStan began trying to rectify things, but it was pretty late, and we have seen now what Collins is capable of with both the "want to" and the resources TStan has helped provide.
 

GTpdm

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,488
Location
Atlanta GA
CPJ would have been more interesting if he would have invested in recruiting and found coaches like CTC and CMC that could go recruit high end guys. Instead, he just kept his buddies around (which is detriment to many coaches, not just PJ) and hired a bunch of washed up old D Coordinators.
You do realize, don’t you, that Johnson WANTED to invest more in recruiting, but our program at the time was something like 63 out of 65 in P5 recruiting budgets? Over the past couple of decades, recruiting has become more and more about having non-coaching staff to do all the behind-the-scenes work like film review, while the coaches were primarily responsible for the direct contact.

During that same time frame, our program was starved for financial support (I can only guess by boosters who were pathologically opposed to the TO) to the point where our coaches were spending large chunks of their time things that were relegated to support staff in other programs. Do you blame Johnson for that, the people who wanted us to compete with Clemson on a fraction of CU’s recruiting budget, or the people who ensured we had a fraction of CU”s budget so that they could run off an unwanted coach all the sooner?
 

Heisman's Ghost

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,181
Location
Albany Georgia
Well, I always said about PJ if he had talent within about 20-30% of other teams, those other teams better be very well-coached, disciplined teams, or they would be in for a painful game experience. (one item of clarity though - if your D line or another major position group falls below this difference, you might still be in trouble, no matter the overall difference)

But, when the talent level is over 30% greater, there is not a lot a coach can do unless the coaches on the other side of the field are complete dufusses who have lost their team completely.

Coaching matters, game prep matters, game-time decisions and adjustments matter. They always will. BUT, you do have to have some talent. Another part of being a great coach is seeing potential talent that others might miss, but this is getting harder and harder to do with our connected world. Just not that many sleepers out there anymore.
The rich are getting richer with every passing year. The elite factories are almost out of reach for bottom feeders to compete and there are a whole lot more bottom feeders than elite teams. I am more than willing to give Coach Collins the full 7 years of his contract to run the program his way and to use recruiting as the linchpin of his program. I would caution him that many coaches at higher profile schools have tried this with limited success. Game day coaching, careful player development, roster management to say nothing of hiring and keeping great assistants are all just as important. Not to mention the near constant need, at the cost of the coach's sanity, to stroke the egos of monied alumni and ivory tower academicians. IIWII
 

Heisman's Ghost

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,181
Location
Albany Georgia
I thought the census was reached on this board that its was all recruiting. I guess you only miss good coaching when you don't have it.
If it were just all recruiting, UGA would have a whole trophy case full of national championship trophies, Ray Goff would still be coaching, Randy Shannon and Al Golden would still be at Miami and Christ alone who knows how many Tennessee coaches would still have their jobs. I hate to say it but UGA appears, for the moment at least, to be on the way to winning its second national championship in living memory by getting better players and better coaches.
 

Scubapro

Banned
Messages
717
If it were just all recruiting, UGA would have a whole trophy case full of national championship trophies, Ray Goff would still be coaching, Randy Shannon and Al Golden would still be at Miami and Christ alone who knows how many Tennessee coaches would still have their jobs. I hate to say it but UGA appears, for the moment at least, to be on the way to winning its second national championship in living memory by getting better players and better coaches.
I agree. It sure seemed to me that most ridiculed this opinion just a year and a half ago.
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,146
A career .492 coach who’s biggest job was probably as a spot holder at Baylor after the Briles scandal. I guess we have different definitions of what a “very good” coach
I haven't looked it up but Grobe did have some solid teams at Wake. He got a lot of criticism for cut blocking even though he did not run the 3O there. He was a quick fill in hire at Baylor after their scandal.
 

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,853
I agree.
Lets get ready to spend some money on better coaches. But the details make it hard.

2 years ago i was sure that our DL coach Knight could not attract talent because he had zero dl experience. I believe he and coleman have worked together and we are pretty deep at DL and getting better recruits in again this year.
 

A Love Supreme

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
765
I thought the census was reached on this board that its was all recruiting. I guess you only miss good coaching when you don't have it.
Thats what happens when you have back to back 3 win seasons and lose to Northern Illinois. Collins has not proved that he is a good head coach and turn a program around. The two seasons before he became the head coach at Temple they had back to back 10 win seasons. When Collins got there they did worse. Recruiting is nice but if you don't know how to coach and get wins it doesn't matter that much. We were all happy when CPJ was winning despite the lack of getting the 4 or 5 stars.
 
Top