Question for the offensive gurus

Lee

Ramblin' Wreck
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841
I don't want this to turn into a "we should pass more vs we should stick to what we do" thread. I just have a question about something I have wondered for a while.

We've all seen how big of a weapon the smoke route can be, especially with Bay Bay. Is there a reason we don't throw a similar pass to the aback when we go trips to one side? It seems to me that this would be an easier throw that hits quicker and would allow some of our slippery aback to work in space (especially Searcy before he got hurt).

Most of the time we are in the formation, the aback has a lb or a safety on him and they are usually 7-10 yards off the ball.
 

PBR549

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837
I don't want this to turn into a "we should pass more vs we should stick to what we do" thread. I just have a question about something I have wondered for a while.

We've all seen how big of a weapon the smoke route can be, especially with Bay Bay. Is there a reason we don't throw a similar pass to the aback when we go trips to one side? It seems to me that this would be an easier throw that hits quicker and would allow some of our slippery aback to work in space (especially Searcy before he got hurt).

Most of the time we are in the formation, the aback has a lb or a safety on him and they are usually 7-10 yards off the ball.
We threw the seam to Searcy out of Trips against Tulane for a TD. Not sure if the throw to T. Marshall was Trips or not.
 

gtg936g

Helluva Engineer
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2,142
The AB isn't on the LOS, so if the LB/S flew up and made the tackle it is more likely to be a loss rather than a pass for no gain.
 

Lee

Ramblin' Wreck
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841
We threw the seam to Searcy out of Trips against Tulane for a TD. Not sure if the throw to T. Marshall was Trips or not.

I like that route as well and wish we ran it a few more times in the ND game (had a TD to Searcy with a good throw), but I'm talking about a one step drop and out of JT's hands.

Gtg, I understand what you are saying and see how that could be an issue. My thought is having it more as a hot read or a play JT can get us into if he sees the lb/s 10 yards off the LOS. It's an easy throw and would possibly allow the other aback to get out and get a hat on said lb/s.

In my head that would be an easy pitch and catch and make the defense have to respect another part of our offense.

I guess the downside would be that it would bring the lb/s closer to the LOS which could affect our blocking assignments and running game. I just feel like it would be an easy 5+ yards we could get when we have days like we did last Saturday where we are struggling to move the ball on the ground.
 

UgaBlows

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What if you spaced the WR and A-backs all the way out to the sidelines on each side, take 4 D players completely out of the inside running game
 

Techster

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IMO, smoke routes are better run from our "base formation", or the opposite side of the trips formation. You're not crowding space for the WR to move. If you're in trips, you bring 2 extra bodies, and 2 extra defenders to the WR's space and it gives him less room to maneuver. Our smoke routes aren't set up like Denver's (really a screen pass) where they're in bunch formation and guys are acting like blockers. Our smoke routes are designed for the WR to take on his defender 1v1, and if our WR can get by his man they can get a chunks of yardage if not break it open for a TD.

Smoke routes are perfect for bigger WRs that are explosive in short spaces. We've run it with Summers a few times, and he'll get a decent "cheap" gain...but Demaryius and Smelter are the prototypical WRs for this play. Both could stiff arm the DB to the ground and were quick enough to erase angles from the shallow defenders. All they had to beat were the safeties, and by that time they've gained 20+ yards.

You've also got to look at the CB and what leverage they're playing. If a CB is playing with outside leverage and lining up 10+ yards off the ball, perfect time for this play. If they're playing inside leverage and playing closer to the WR, not a very good time to do it. I think we need our WRs to show that they can beat them deep so they respect them more and are playing off them. Demaryius and Smelter proved that over time, the guys we have now have not.
 

JacketFromUGA

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To me the best smoke routes run are Aaron Rodgers to Jordy Nelson on a quick audible play. Half the time the rest of the Packer's offense doesn't even know the play changed.
 

Lee

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
841
IMO, smoke routes are better run from our "base formation", or the opposite side of the trips formation. You're not crowding space for the WR to move. If you're in trips, you bring 2 extra bodies, and 2 extra defenders to the WR's space and it gives him less room to maneuver. Our smoke routes aren't set up like Denver's (really a screen pass) where they're in bunch formation and guys are acting like blockers. Our smoke routes are designed for the WR to take on his defender 1v1, and if our WR can get by his man they can get a chunks of yardage if not break it open for a TD.

Smoke routes are perfect for bigger WRs that are explosive in short spaces. We've run it with Summers a few times, and he'll get a decent "cheap" gain...but Demaryius and Smelter are the prototypical WRs for this play. Both could stiff arm the DB to the ground and were quick enough to erase angles from the shallow defenders. All they had to beat were the safeties, and by that time they've gained 20+ yards.

You've also got to look at the CB and what leverage they're playing. If a CB is playing with outside leverage and lining up 10+ yards off the ball, perfect time for this play. If they're playing inside leverage and playing closer to the WR, not a very good time to do it. I think we need our WRs to show that they can beat them deep so they respect them more and are playing off them. Demaryius and Smelter proved that over time, the guys we have now have not.

I agree completely with what you are saying concerning smoke routes to our WRs.

What I am trying to figure out is whether or not running a similar concept with the aback in the slot when we are in trips would work. Not necessarily as a called play, but a hot read for JT if the lb/s is 8-10 yards off the LOS. Is there a reason this would not work or doesn't make sense?

I went back to Longest's thread and took a screen capture of one of the times we lined up like that formation. Turns out the lb/s is closer than I thought based on memory, but I still think the play will work. I will try to post the picture (never tried before) and explain my thought process.

image.jpeg


My thought here would be to have the WR crack the S and the aback to get out on the OLB (who may or may not have an impact on the play anyways). That would leave the aback in the slot with a one on one matchup with the CB who could possibly get caught up in the block if he's got man responsibilities.

At the snap, JT turns and fires the ball to the aback who has either squared up to him or opened up his right hip and started moving laterally to give himself some momentum. At that point, if the WR does his job, he only has to beat the CB and has a lot of room to do so.

It may not work, but you could see all the open field if he happens to make the CB miss. I would think 3-5 yards at a minimum unless the WR completely misses his block. I'm a baseball player though and not an OC. This is just something that popped in my head during the game and has been a thought I've had in the past as well. Someone with a better football mind tell me why this wouldn't work or if it has some potential of being successful.

You won't hurt my feelings if you tell me I'm an idiot. If you do that I would prefer you at least tell me why I'm an idiot though...haha
 

LawTalkin Jacket

Jolly Good Fellow
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339
Excuse me for not paying attention to this thread or other recent threads, but wasn't ND's defense just begging for Tech to run a counter-option or reverse?! I was waiting for it all game and it never happened.
 

00Burdell

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Excuse me for not paying attention to this thread or other recent threads, but wasn't ND's defense just begging for Tech to run a counter-option or reverse?! I was waiting for it all game and it never happened.

I'm sure they would have sniffed it out and thrown us for a 37-yard loss. Just wasn't our day.
 

Legal Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
561
IMO, smoke routes are better run from our "base formation", or the opposite side of the trips formation. You're not crowding space for the WR to move. If you're in trips, you bring 2 extra bodies, and 2 extra defenders to the WR's space and it gives him less room to maneuver. Our smoke routes aren't set up like Denver's (really a screen pass) where they're in bunch formation and guys are acting like blockers. Our smoke routes are designed for the WR to take on his defender 1v1, and if our WR can get by his man they can get a chunks of yardage if not break it open for a TD.

Smoke routes are perfect for bigger WRs that are explosive in short spaces. We've run it with Summers a few times, and he'll get a decent "cheap" gain...but Demaryius and Smelter are the prototypical WRs for this play. Both could stiff arm the DB to the ground and were quick enough to erase angles from the shallow defenders. All they had to beat were the safeties, and by that time they've gained 20+ yards.

You've also got to look at the CB and what leverage they're playing. If a CB is playing with outside leverage and lining up 10+ yards off the ball, perfect time for this play. If they're playing inside leverage and playing closer to the WR, not a very good time to do it. I think we need our WRs to show that they can beat them deep so they respect them more and are playing off them. Demaryius and Smelter proved that over time, the guys we have now have not.

This. The ideal candidate would be Bey Bey one on one with a defender. When you start bringing in other defenders in the area, its a lot more likely one of them will make a play. When we've got smaller ABs its tougher for them to make a power one on one move, and even more so when the DBs cheat up on us - which they will likely do all season until we show we can hit the deep ball. Factor in that our offense may not be as explosive this year, and so we may need to grind out each play, and we can't risk as much a no gain on what is essentially a screen.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
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10,749
Excuse me for not paying attention to this thread or other recent threads, but wasn't ND's defense just begging for Tech to run a counter-option or reverse?! I was waiting for it all game and it never happened.
They were ready for it--that's why you didn't see it
 

Greenjackets

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
51
Regarding the OP. A pass to the A back in the slot could be ruled a lateral pass hence ruled a fumble if we drop it. Not every time would it be ruled a fumble but it's a grey area.

The WR smoke route is more black and white and only in Athens could it be ruled a fumble.

The intent of the play is to spread the defense and throwing a 10 yd pass lateral to line of scrimmage compared to 20 yd to WR and clearly forward carries less risk and is more effective.
 
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