PFF Grades Through UNC Game

GaTech4ever

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The previous thread received some positive feedback, so I created a new thread for our grades since Clemson and UNC (also because some of my previous content had to get removed due to paywall issues). Please PM me with any specific questions and I’ll do my best to answer.

  • Charlie Thomas is the #1 graded LB in the nation, out of 530. Also grades out as #1 in pass coverage. Quez Jackson comes in at #30. Quez doesn’t grade very high in any one particular area, but doesn’t have a weakness (pass overage coverage is his lowest score). No other team has two LBs in the top 30. Ayinde Eley currently sits at #420.

  • Ignoring the minimum snap threshold, Dontae Smith is the #5 graded RB in the nation. But I do think his touches per snap ratio really boosts his grade. Also the fact that he’s a beast.

  • Devin Cochran has the #4 pass blocking grade of all OTs in the country (out of 380). His mediocre run blocking grade puts him at #80 overall. Jordan Williams is #256 overall.

  • Ryan Johnson grades as the #321 OG, out of 406. Kenny Cooper comes in at #278.

  • Out of 190 Centers, Mikey Minihan grades in at #180 for pass blocking (#117 overall).

  • Out of 483 Edge Defenders, Jordan Dominick grades at #48 overall (and #19 in Run Defense). Jared Ivey grades at #21 in Pass Rushing (#93 overall) and Kyle Kennard is #353 overall.

  • Out of 551 Interior Defenders, Dijmon Brooks is #44 and Ja’Quon Griffin is #51. T.K. Chimedza is #221.

  • Out of 657 graded WRs, Kyric McGowan is #120, Malachi Carter is #147, and Adonicas Sanders is #598.

  • Out of 214 RBs, Jahmyr Gibbs is #49 and Jordan Mason is #72.

  • Out of 539 CBs, Tobias Oliver is #187, Wesley Walker is #369, and Tre Swilling is #389. An interesting stat here is Walker is #20 in Run Defense for all CBs.

  • Out of 443 Safeties, Juanyeh Thomas grades #17 in Run Defense (#219 overall). Tariq Carpenter is #328 overall.
 

GaTech4ever

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A couple non-GT grades but I thought was interesting based on some relevant QBs.

Out of 203 graded QBs:
- Brennan Armstrong (UVA’s QB) is #1
- Kenny Pickett (Pitt’s QB) is #4
- Gunnar Holmberg (Duke’s QB) is #18
- JT Daniels (UGA’s QB) is #34
- Braxton Burmeister (VT’s QB) is #73
- Jack Coan (ND’s QB) is #92
- Former Clemson/Duke and current App State QB Chase Brice is #10
 

Heisman's Ghost

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I can't believe Brice is #10. Apparently, the change in scenery did wonders for him. If Clemson had him now, they would not be in the fix they currently find themselves. Where is the Clemson quarterback rated out of 203?
 

GaTech4ever

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This might be intuitive based on the original post but the the best player grades in terms of a particular skill (not overall grade or this would be mostly Charlie!):

1.) Charlie Thomas’ pass coverage (93 pass coverage snaps)
2.) Devin Cochran’s pass blocking (146 pass blocking snaps)
3.) Jared Ivey’s pass rushing (68 pass rushing snaps)

A few just missed the top 3, such as Charlie’s tackling, Tariq’s tacking, Jordan Dominick’s run defense, Dontae Smith’s running (just 18 snaps), and Jordan Mason’s run blocking (just 12 snaps).
 

malak05

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Eww... We weren't crazy in saying that our oline performance was not great overall. I hope they can slowly pull that up don't need elite but plenty of room for improvement.
 

GaTech4ever

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Do you have snap count data for both of the lines and at CB?
Yeah, and where the players line up. It’s incredible the data PFF has - not referring to the player grades contained this thread, because player grades are subjective based on PFF’s scoring system.

Outside of the PFF grades and player snap alignments, some of the the interesting PFF player stats I tend to look at are the missed tackle rates, NFL passer rating against, defensive stops (tackles that constitute a "failure" for the offense), and penalties.

The issue is I don’t think I can post the data, because you have to pay for the data. Hence why I listed played rankings and not player data (I’m probably already toeing the line).

PM me what you want to know and I’ll see if I can pull the data.
 

Techster

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Eww... We weren't crazy in saying that our oline performance was not great overall. I hope they can slowly pull that up don't need elite but plenty of room for improvement.

Really disappointed in this. Brent Key came in with an elite reputation for developing OL...but the performances on the OL have not really been that good. Cochrane was already an elite pass blocking tackle before he transferred to GT, so that can't be credited to Key. I didn't expect a miracle, but I was hoping our guys would at least grade out in the top half at their respective positions. You can't totally put it on CPJ either for guys like Minihan and Cooper...not when you look at what our other coaches are doing at other positions with guys from the CPJ era. Jordan Williams is Key's guy...and even Williams seems to be stagnant in his development.

Dante Smith and Jordan Mason have gotten better. Charlie Thomas and Quez Jackson have gotten better. Jordan Domineck, Jaquon Griffin, Djimon Brooks (a walkon) have all gotten better. Heck, I thought LBs would again struggle, but they seem to now be the strength of our defense with Thomas and Jackson leading the way. That's a credit to Marco Coleman (OLBs) and Andrew Thacker (LBs).

Maybe the OL will improve as the season goes on, and each OL will grade out better. I hope so, because right now as a unit, they have the lowest collective grade and the most room to improve.
 

forensicbuzz

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Really disappointed in this. Brent Key came in with an elite reputation for developing OL...but the performances on the OL have not really been that good. Cochrane was already an elite pass blocking tackle before he transferred to GT, so that can't be credited to Key. I didn't expect a miracle, but I was hoping our guys would at least grade out in the top half at their respective positions. You can't totally put it on CPJ either for guys like Minihan and Cooper...not when you look at what our other coaches are doing at other positions with guys from the CPJ era. Jordan Williams is Key's guy...and even Williams seems to be stagnant in his development.

Dante Smith and Jordan Mason have gotten better. Charlie Thomas and Quez Jackson have gotten better. Jordan Domineck, Jaquon Griffin, Djimon Brooks (a walkon) have all gotten better. Heck, I thought LBs would again struggle, but they seem to now be the strength of our defense with Thomas and Jackson leading the way. That's a credit to Marco Coleman (OLBs) and Andrew Thacker (LBs).

Maybe the OL will improve as the season goes on, and each OL will grade out better. I hope so, because right now as a unit, they have the lowest collective grade and the most room to improve.
:facepalm:

Of every position group on the field, OL is going to take the longest to develop. They've tried to shorten that via Transfer Portal, but it's still going to take a couple more years. I'd say by the time Williams is a senior this OL will be fantastic.
 

4shotB

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  • Devin Cochran has the #4 pass blocking grade of all OTs in the country (out of 380). His mediocre run blocking grade puts him at #80 overall. Jordan Williams is #256 overall

  • Out of 551 Interior Defenders, Dijmon Brooks is #44 and Ja’Quon Griffin is #51. T.K. Chimedza is #221.

2 thoughts based on the above

1. I understand we have several "big uglies" as Keith Jackson called them who post here (some of whom actually played FB! ;)). Regarding Cochran, my understanding was/is that run blocking is easier than pass blocking. Am I incorrect? If not, why the discrepancy on Cochran's numbers?

2. A trio of effective interior DT's!!!! Did you ever think you would live long enough to see that. Plus Zeek B looks to have enormous upside as does Stone. Hallelujah.
 

augustabuzz

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2 thoughts based on the above

1. I understand we have several "big uglies" as Keith Jackson called them who post here (some of whom actually played FB! ;)). Regarding Cochran, my understanding was/is that run blocking is easier than pass blocking. Am I incorrect? If not, why the discrepancy on Cochran's numbers?

2. A trio of effective interior DT's!!!! Did you ever think you would live long enough to see that. Plus Zeek B looks to have enormous upside as does Stone. Hallelujah.
My understanding is that Cochran's last year at Vandy led him to be the 2nd rated OT (pass blocking) in the SEC.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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Eww... We weren't crazy in saying that our oline performance was not great overall. I hope they can slowly pull that up don't need elite but plenty of room for improvement.

OL is one of our biggest weaknesses remaining. It's gotten a LOT better, but as noted, still a ton of improvement needed. As others have said though, gonna take a couple of years before we truly see the line we want.

We saw the OL troubles in a microcosm last Saturday. Early in the game the OL was making a lot of mistakes and cost us dearly in the two failed goal line series. Later in the game we started to see less mistakes and they really opened up lanes for Sims and the RBs to run in.
 

Oakland

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Regarding pass protection, it really looks like Sims takes a deeper drop or rolls out a little deeper than Yates. Yates is pretty good at staying in the pass protection pocket, but that breaks down too quickly or Yates is holding the ball a little too long. Both quarterbacks have a bunch of positives about them. What troubled me was Yates got sacked a couple of times by Kennesaw State and it wasn't because he held onto the ball too long.
 

4shotB

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OL is one of our biggest weaknesses remaining. It's gotten a LOT better, but as noted, still a ton of improvement needed. As others have said though, gonna take a couple of years before we truly see the line we want.

We saw the OL troubles in a microcosm last Saturday. Early in the game the OL was making a lot of mistakes and cost us dearly in the two failed goal line series. Later in the game we started to see less mistakes and they really opened up lanes for Sims and the RBs to run in.
In looking at our OL's PFF scores vs. Bama's when Key was over there....do you think maybe the underlying root cause is perhaps CBK responds better to Saban's management style than to CGC's style? Just spitballing here. ;)
 

LongforDodd

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Really disappointed in this. Brent Key came in with an elite reputation for developing OL...but the performances on the OL have not really been that good. Cochrane was already an elite pass blocking tackle before he transferred to GT, so that can't be credited to Key. I didn't expect a miracle, but I was hoping our guys would at least grade out in the top half at their respective positions. You can't totally put it on CPJ either for guys like Minihan and Cooper...not when you look at what our other coaches are doing at other positions with guys from the CPJ era. Jordan Williams is Key's guy...and even Williams seems to be stagnant in his development.

Dante Smith and Jordan Mason have gotten better. Charlie Thomas and Quez Jackson have gotten better. Jordan Domineck, Jaquon Griffin, Djimon Brooks (a walkon) have all gotten better. Heck, I thought LBs would again struggle, but they seem to now be the strength of our defense with Thomas and Jackson leading the way. That's a credit to Marco Coleman (OLBs) and Andrew Thacker (LBs).

Maybe the OL will improve as the season goes on, and each OL will grade out better. I hope so, because right now as a unit, they have the lowest collective grade and the most room to improve.
Some of the rub on PJ's linemen was that they were good run blockers but not good pass blockers. As much as you practice something you just might not be able to overcome your limitations. I'm sure Key knows what it takes to be an overall effective OLman and maybe those older OLmen have maxed out skill-wise. I hope that Williams has some learning to achieve as such a relatively young man in the college game.
 

Techster

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:facepalm:

Of every position group on the field, OL is going to take the longest to develop. They've tried to shorten that via Transfer Portal, but it's still going to take a couple more years. I'd say by the time Williams is a senior this OL will be fantastic.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

Minihan, Cooper are upper classmen that have been in Key's system for 2+ years. Ryan Johnson is an upper classman that has been in Key's system for 1+ year.

Williams doesn't seem to be making any progress from last year to this year.

I get what you're saying about development, and while it holds true to a certain extent, there should be progress. I don't expect a miracle, but I also don't expect the majority of our OL that's made of experienced players to be graded out in the lower half of their position group.

Cochrane was an elite passer blocker before he got here, and he remains an elite pass blocker...and he hasn't been coached by Key that long. He's also been out of the game for a year. You can still grade out well individually even if the unit doesn't grade out well. None of our other OLs grades out well regardless of whether they've been coached by Key multiple years or 1 year. That's the point of a good coach: You make the player a better player.

DL is another position that takes time to develop. As I pointed out in the UNC post game thread, quite a few of our young DLs are playing very well and are grading out well.
 

Techster

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Some of the rub on PJ's linemen was that they were good run blockers but not good pass blockers. As much as you practice something you just might not be able to overcome your limitations. I'm sure Key knows what it takes to be an overall effective OLman and maybe those older OLmen have maxed out skill-wise. I hope that Williams has some learning to achieve as such a relatively young man in the college game.

Another font posted photos of PFF player grades over the years. Ryan Johnson was actually a fairly good and respectable rated OL earlier in his UT career. Now after a 1+ year of coaching under Key he's rated as the #321 OG out of 406 OGs? I would be interested in knowing how Minihan and Cooper rated under CPJ.

As I said, a good coach takes what he has and makes them better. I don't expect any of our OLs that were recruited under CPJ to rank in the top 10-50 of their respected positions, but to rank in the bottom half is a really big disappointment.
 
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