Paul Johnson time frame.

What gets CPJ fired or encouraged to resign?


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Wrecked

Jolly Good Fellow
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Look over at the basketball board, recruiting is an issue at Tech regardless of the offense or even the sport and everyone has a different opinion on why or what to do to fix it. That said we are doing better in football recruiting the last two cycles and hopefully we finish this class strong.
Coach Jo had two McDonald All Americans in her last class. The softball coach has hit the trail hard also. It can be done.
 

Boaty1

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Does this argument ever end.......We have never been an NFL factory and we never will be. We do however create some great College football players. Robert Lavette, Jerry Mays, Shawn Jones, Josh Nesbitt, I could go on.

The only offensive limitation on the offense is at QB. And as I have said many times, there has never been a starter at QB in the NFL from Georgia Tech. Do you think the NFL would not love to get a very Talented OL from us? How about Wide receivers that can block. B-backs that have to run with power. A-backs that would be great slot backs. If the NFL is all about the Power 5 and running those offenses, why are there so many Group of 5 kids playing and starting in the NFL.

Our recruiting is simply one issue........can you pass calculus?

This is just wrong and what frustrates me so is I KNOW it to be wrong yet many on this board believe it. The group think is scary and ignores reality.

I KNOW a former GT RB that played in the pros that said if GT was running this offense when he was playing he would have never came here. He also said when Johnson was hired that recruiting would suffer. He’s turned out to be right.

Tech fans on this board are in the minority in their fondness for this coach and his offense. I’m very involved in youth sports and have been for the better part of 2 decades so I come into contact with sports minded people on a more frequent basis than most. I’m telling you the perception of the program is suffering because of this coach and his offense.
 

doug

Georgia Tech Fan
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2 weeks ago he was saying everytime he took Southern to UGA Richt pulled his antics, come to find out the timeline didn't even match up. He says a lot of stuff with the media that's just weird.

Paul probably conflated the years and the coaches, but I've been to UGA-GS games in 2000, 2004, 2012, and 2015 and it's happened in every game.

It was Jim Donnan that did it in 2000 when Paul was coach, but UGA definitely surrounded the Georgia Southern players during pregame. It also happened in 2004 when Richt had the players surround GS, when they were coached by Sewak. Same thing happened in 2012, when Monken coached them and in 2015 when Willie Fritz coached them.

Coaches talk to each other and they no doubt talk about UGA and Richt's penchant for trying to intimidate teams in pregame. Paul's personal timeline was off, but the gist of his statement is absolutely true.
 
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This is just wrong and what frustrates me so is I KNOW it to be wrong yet many on this board believe it. The group think is scary and ignores reality.

I KNOW a former GT RB that played in the pros that said if GT was running this offense when he was playing he would have never came here. He also said when Johnson was hired that recruiting would suffer. He’s turned out to be right.

Tech fans on this board are in the minority in their fondness for this coach and his offense. I’m very involved in youth sports and have been for the better part of 2 decades so I come into contact with sports minded people on a more frequent basis than most. I’m telling you the perception of the program is suffering because of this coach and his offense.

Um no, you have not seen as much football as I have. CPJ is the most successful coach Tech has had since Dodd.
 

Boaty1

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I will use the final 4 years. I don't have time to go find every year, but I thought I'd make sure to include Gailey's outlier year.

2004 48
2005 70
2006 62
2007 15
Avg: 48.75

2018 54
2017 48
2016 60
2015 44
Avg: 51.5

I am not convinced we are doing worse recruiting under CPJ. Gailey had a remarkable recruiting season in 2007, and we will sadly never know whether it could have been repeated.

Does CPJ offensive scheme limited us from getting offensive players who's goal is only the NFL? Probably, but if we keep putting out a top 10 offense I don't think that is a big issue.

The defense never had a 5 star recruit. It has still never had a 5 star recruit. You can blame the offense, but then explain why we did not get one before CPJ?

2018 would have been a minimum of top 35 class and could have been another top 25 class before we fired Gailey. He had figured out how to recruit here just as his predecessor O’Leary had. A decade in and Johnson has not figured it out and quite frankly never will due to his offense.
 

ibeattetris

Helluva Engineer
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He had figured out how to recruit here just as his predecessor O’Leary had.
Maybe! Your guess is a good as mine (and yeah, you really are just guessing). Sadly he could never field an offense with a pulse and was let go before he could prove he had figured it out.
 

Boaty1

Helluva Engineer
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1,081
Does this argument ever end.......We have never been an NFL factory and we never will be. We do however create some great College football players. Robert Lavette, Jerry Mays, Shawn Jones, Josh Nesbitt, I could go on.

The only offensive limitation on the offense is at QB. And as I have said many times, there has never been a starter at QB in the NFL from Georgia Tech. Do you think the NFL would not love to get a very Talented OL from us? How about Wide receivers that can block. B-backs that have to run with power. A-backs that would be great slot backs. If the NFL is all about the Power 5 and running those offenses, why are there so many Group of 5 kids playing and starting in the NFL.

Our recruiting is simply one issue........can you pass calculus?

If that were the case we would have never recruited any better than our current pace. Something is clearly different and it’s not Calculus.
 

Milwaukee

Banned
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Location
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Paul probably conflated the years and the coaches, but I've been to UGA-GS games in 2000, 2004, 2012, and 2015 and it's happened in every game.

It was Jim Donnan that did it in 2000 when Paul was coach, but UGA definitely surrounded the Georgia Southern players during pregame. It also happened in 2004 when Richt had the players surround GS, when they were coached by Sewak. Same thing happened in 2012, when Monken coached them and in 2015 when Willie Fritz coached them.

Coaches talk to each other and they no doubt talk about UGA and Richt's penchant for trying to intimidate teams in pregame. Paul's personal timeline was off, but the gist of his statement is absolutely true.

Okay?
 

Boaty1

Helluva Engineer
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Maybe! Your guess is a good as mine (and yeah, you really are just guessing). Sadly he could never field an offense with a pulse and was let go before he could prove he had figured it out.

Buddy, I’m not guessing. I know where we were at when we fired Gailey. I was a Tech fan in 07. You may be new to the game but don’t act like one can’t remember a decade back. It’s not a guess and for you to try to negatively spin the capabilities of our program to defend a coach merely proves my suspicion about many on this board. 08 was going to be another solid class. If you need me to pull a few of the high profile decommits after the firing of Gailey I can. One was a future first round draft pick.
 

Milwaukee

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Um no, you have not seen as much football as I have. CPJ is the most successful coach Tech has had since Dodd.

Let's build a statue. I mean, he's beaten Georgia 3 times in a decade so why not.

I hate having to take this stance, because I ACTUALLY like PJ and I want him here. But the ignorant homerism is getting old. We are 7-4 and should be 10-1, we've **** the bed 3 out of the last 4 years. Paul needs to up his game or he's not going to be here fellas, no matter how much you revere him. And I actually do revere him, I'm just more down to earth about it.
 

BCJacket

Ramblin' Wreck
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Although we've never really brought in the big time 4 and 5 star recruits, a sentiment held by many on this board (and any other one about Georgia Tech football for that matter) is that this offense prevents us for landing elite recruits with legitimate NFL aspirations. But others will bring forth the evidence that this same offense is the great equalizer that allows us to overcome these recruiting deficiencies, and compete with teams with superior talent. My question to the board is do you guys believe the work that T-Stan is doing to raise money and devote more resources towards recruiting will bring better results in recruiting? Or will it always be the same as long as we run the triple option? Will a new offense make us more attractive to kids? Or will we always have a tougher time because we're Georgia Tech?

I believe the work TStan is doing is already improving recruiting.

I think we have to look at whether we're getting the guys our coaches want, not if we're getting the guys other coaches want. Someone who follows recruiting more closely could probably provide more insight. But from my casual observation it seems like the last 3 or so years we've been landing a higher proportion of our key targets. But we're also not recruiting head-to-head against Clemson, Bama, uGA.

I also think you have to ask, how do you measure "recruiting"? Star ratings or results on the field?

If you're talking Star rankings, our offense is always going to hurt that. Partly because the rankings are not a rating of a players' athletic ability. They are a rating of how good a fit the player is for an NFL-style offense. More directly they're a measure of how desired the player is by "top programs". The rankings are mostly a function of a player's offer sheet. The ratings end up being a proxy for talent in a lot of cases, because the top programs put a ton of resources into evaluating talent and making their offers.

But, we recruit a lot of guys who are 'athletes' and 'tweeners'. Searcy was rated as a low 3* CB, because that was his 'best fit' for the prevailing system. Lynch was a 2* WR. If the prevailing system were the Flexbone, those guys would have been high 3 or 4* A-back prospects. JeT and James Graham were both 3-4*s as defense-prospect athletes (even though they played quarterback, they weren't a 'fit' for QB at the next level. IIRC JeT was a 3* Ath, until Bama offered then he was a 4* 'DB'. Graham was unranked until he committed to VT then was a 4* Ath. They're 5* QB material for the Flexbone.)

So, I think you have to take the 'rankings' with a grain of salt. The only way to evaluate apples to apples is the results on the field. If you evaluate recruiting on what our recruits have done on the field, Tech's offensive recruiting has been pretty good under CPJ.

Our offense ratings; total offense, SP+, FEI, whatever you want to look at have been consistently well above our recruiting rank. Often in the top 15. I'm not saying we're a stealth top-15 recruiting powerhouse. But our offensive results have consistently outperformed our "ranking". Defense less so, and that's a fair knock on the head coach. But the question is about changing the offense not the defense. I personally just don't buy the argument that the offense hurts defensive recruiting significantly.

The argument for the accuracy of the ratings is that the top recruiting programs are usually the top performers. Well, we've been a top performer on offense frequently while having mediocre-to-poor rankings. TStan's efforts and the increased resources should raise our ability to find and land undervalued athletes, who are a fit for our system, even more. Hopefully, it can help raise our defensive recruiting to a higher level as well.
 

ibeattetris

Helluva Engineer
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Buddy, I’m not guessing
:ROFLMAO:(y)
I was a Tech fan in 07.
Same
It’s not a guess and for you to try to negatively spin the capabilities of our program
There was no negative spin. I said 2007 was remarkable recruiting, and it certainly helped our 2008 and 2009 success under CPJ. We have zero evidence that 2008 would have been a great class under Gailey because he was not there to complete it. People decommit from schools all the time. I am not saying it was going to be bad. I am saying that it didn't happen, so we will never know.
One was a future first round draft pick.
The one who ended up at UNC? That was a rough one to lose for sure, but you can't say you are 100% positive he doesn't decommit anyways. You *assume* he wouldn't, and you are probably right. It is still just an assumption though. All we have to go off of is what actually happened, not what you think would happen.
 
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