Onside Kick

SecretAgentBuzz

SecretAgentBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
784
Location
ends of the earth
I am really proud of my Yellow Jackets and their effort and play throughout last night's game was tremendous. I can't help playing the "what if" game, though. What if we had gotten that onside kick? I have every confidence in our offense and we would have had about 1:30 to get into field position for a game-winning FG. Now, I understand that onside kicks are low-percentage plays, but our execution (or maybe our plan?) seemed poor. I kept thinking, "There has GOT to be a better way to recover a kick."

I'm no coach, but here are some ideas:
-Hit it hard...right at a defender. If you can nail one of those first-row guys, it will likely ricochet back towards your team.
-Hit it just over the heads of the 2nd row of guys. FSU came out with 2 rows of 5 guys along the front and then one guy back. If you can pop it over that 2nd row, it will likely bounce for a while and your guys will be running full steam towards whereas the receiving team would be turning to follow the ball.
-Kick it as high as you possible can. If it has enough airtime, our guys would have a chance to get under as well.

I know we can't change the outcome, and its silly to play the "what if" game too much, but I thought this might prompt a good discussion on the onside kick. Anybody got numbers for the percentage of onside kicks recovered by the kicking team? GTNavyNuke?

Go Jackets!
 
GT_B

GT_B

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
643
I will say, it was a great game by our guys and they played really hard. But that onside kick was terrible...we didn't even give ourselves a chance to recover it. I'm not sure if that was called or Butker just did that on his own but it was pretty awful.
 

BigDaddyBuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,189
It was one of the worst onside attempts I've ever seen. I blame the special teams coach though. In late game onside situations you always kick it towards your sideline. Bad decision and worse execution.
 
DC Bee

DC Bee

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
604
Location
Springfield, VA
GT_B said:
..that onside kick was terrible...we didn't even give ourselves a chance to recover it. I'm not sure if that was called or Butker just did that on his own
Click to expand...

There is no way that wasn't the called play. Everyone knew it was coming, because it was the right call in that situation to win the game. Butker just didn't kick it right to get the big bounce that was necessary. I doubt the pooch kick used against UGA would've worked in this situation. That call against UGA was just pure brilliance...
 
Js-showman

Js-showman

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
340
The Onside kick at UGA was the best one I've seen from butker. You have ti make it a jump ball. That little trickle he kicked yesterday was ugly.
 
RamblinCharger

RamblinCharger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,484
Location
Alabama
We needed a 10-15 yard jump ball. Put Waller and a few other athletes that can jump and tell them to go get it. Awful call to kick it like we did, but our defense gave our offense chances in the second half before that and we didn't score. It just wasn't meant to be last night.
 

Jay Alexander

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
271
SecretAgentBuzz said:
-Hit it hard...right at a defender. If you can nail one of those first-row guys, it will likely ricochet back towards your team.
-Hit it just over the heads of the 2nd row of guys. FSU came out with 2 rows of 5 guys along the front and then one guy back. If you can pop it over that 2nd row, it will likely bounce for a while and your guys will be running full steam towards whereas the receiving team would be turning to follow the ball.
-Kick it as high as you possible can. If it has enough airtime, our guys would have a chance to get under as well.
Click to expand...

A good ideas, but here's a few problems:

Kicking the ball real hard at a player is quite easy to defend. Players are coached to get out of the way. Having a player dodge a football is easier than trying to field a bouncing football.

Also, if you kick the ball real high the receiving team can signal for a fair catch, just like on a punt.

Love the ideas though, maybe us Tech guys can come up with something that's more successful.
 
Stonewall

Stonewall

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
206
Location
Statesboro, GA
Js-showman said:
The Onside kick at UGA was the best one I've seen from butker. You have ti make it a jump ball. That little trickle he kicked yesterday was ugly.
Click to expand...

actually, the worm burner onside kick to the the middle of the field can be very effective if executed correctly. but, you've gotta have just the right speed and touch on the ball for your kicker to basically run right next to the ball and every one else has their sights on knocking the other team's guys on their asses to keep them away from the ball. of course, that didn't happen yesterday, unfortunately.

here's a version as i describe executed properly.

 
GTNavyNuke

GTNavyNuke

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
9,886
Location
Williamsburg Virginia
Stonewall said:
actually, the worm burner onside kick to the the middle of the field can be very effective if executed correctly. but, you've gotta have just the right speed and touch on the ball for your kicker to basically run right next to the ball and every one else has their sights on knocking the other team's guys on their asses to keep them away from the ball. of course, that didn't happen yesterday, unfortunately.......
Click to expand...

I think this was the concept too. The ball was actually kicked a little too fast so that our "gunners" couldn't get to the FSU player before the ball did.

There are a bunch of different ways to try the on-sides and we have tired them all it seems. Kick hard and straight, kick hard and into the ground to get a big bounce, kick medium depth (UGAg is poorly coached so it worked and was the first time we tried that this year) or kick it slow and neutralize with prejudice the defensive players. Just have to get to the defensive player before the ball does.

The last football play my son ever had was an on side kick. He was junior HS and on the kick return team. The on side kick came to his area and he was totally lit up by two other KO team players. The ball was easily recovered since it was normal spacing on the return team, unlike what we saw last night.

Overall I think on expected on-sides kick success rate is about 18-25% and it depends a lot on how much of surprise it is. This article has the success rate at 25% in CFB which I think is high. It also has a proposal to replace the KO with a 4th and 15 on your own 30 where you have the choice to punt or go for it. Not a bad idea ....... http://www.footballoutsiders.com/varsity-numbers/2011/varsity-numbers-fourth-and-15
 
awbuzz

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
Staff member
Messages
11,482
Location
Marietta, GA
BTW the UGA pooch kick was not an onside kick AND was Butker was actually ''short" on that kick.

Sometimes the kicking team just gets lucky with the way the ball comes off the foot and the way the ball bounces.
 
Chas_Jacket

Chas_Jacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
326
the wet field probably had an impact on the way it was kicked. The best way is to pound the ball down into a hard ground and have it bounce up high - negating the fair catch possibility and giving guys time to jump/scrum for the ball.
 
GT_B

GT_B

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
643
DC Bee said:
There is no way that wasn't the called play. Everyone knew it was coming, because it was the right call in that situation to win the game. Butker just didn't kick it right to get the big bounce that was necessary. I doubt the pooch kick used against UGA would've worked in this situation. That call against UGA was just pure brilliance...
Click to expand...

I wasn't meaning if it was a called onside kick, everyone knew it was coming, we had to onside to try and win the game. I meant was butker told to do the baby onside kick instead of a normal kick it hard and get the big bounce. I would have rather done a tradional onside getting the big bounce but I wonder if butker changed it on his own.
 
Top