Offensive Play-Calling

[MWBATL]

We seem to run A LOT of WR screens. I did not count them last night, but there were a ton of them. It may be my perception but these things bothered me:
(1) we have been doing this all year, and by now every team we play knows they will need ot cheat up and stop that because it seems to be one of our base plays;
(2) we really haven’t then passed over the top of the cheating up DB’s to make them pay with effective mid range passes (15 yards or so). I have no idea why this isn’t a key component of our game plan, but we didn’t do it last night nor can I remember this being a serious part of any of our games this year.
(3) we do try a few deep bombs, and that’s good, but we certainly don’t do it enough (or succeed with it enough) to really force a change in the defenses against us
(4) last night I deistically recall one series where we ran 3 straight WR screens and all 3 failed. This wa sin the 2nd quarter somewhere around midfield and killed our drive, forcing a punt.

We also seem to telegraph a lot of our plays. When we line up empty backfield, it is a QB run (called or delayed) about 90% of the time. When I can lean over and tell my wife what’s coming, it’s a bad sign. I did that repeatedly last night.

I also felt that our running plays were pretty transparent. We seem to either run up the gut or run a WR screen in about 75% of our plays, with an occasional WR sweep thrown in for ’surprise’.

When we do NOT telegraph the play, it more often than not works. (remember the surprise when Pyron went in motion then took the snap under center to get us a key first down?)

My bottom line is I feel we have become too predictable on offense and defenses can prepare for just a few base plays, and once they stop those we are generally stuck. I was hoping to see a bit more innovation last night in our offense, so I was disappointed in this.

The good news is when we are legitimately better than the other team (like last night) we can roll with this conservative offense and do OK. I was happy we won last night, but I was still disturbed by the play-calling. Against a Notre Dame and Georgia (whose strength is their defense) we will suffer mightily.

 

[forensicbuzz]

We seem to run A LOT of WR screens. I did not count them last night, but there were a ton of them. It may be my perception but these things bothered me:
(1) we have been doing this all year, and by now every team we play knows they will need ot cheat up and stop that because it seems to be one of our base plays;
(2) we really haven’t then passed over the top of the cheating up DB’s to make them pay with effective mid range passes (15 yards or so). I have no idea why this isn’t a key component of our game plan, but we didn’t do it last night nor can I remember this being a serious part of any of our games this year.
(3) we do try a few deep bombs, and that’s good, but we certainly don’t do it enough (or succeed with it enough) to really force a change in the defenses against us
(4) last night I deistically recall one series where we ran 3 straight WR screens and all 3 failed. This wa sin the 2nd quarter somewhere around midfield and killed our drive, forcing a punt.

We also seem to telegraph a lot of our plays. When we line up empty backfield, it is a QB run (called or delayed) about 90% of the time. When I can lean over and tell my wife what’s coming, it’s a bad sign. I did that repeatedly last night.

I also felt that our running plays were pretty transparent. We seem to either run up the gut or run a WR screen in about 75% of our plays, with an occasional WR sweep thrown in for ’surprise’.

When we do NOT telegraph the play, it more often than not works. (remember the surprise when Pyron went in motion then took the snap under center to get us a key first down?)

My bottom line is I feel we have become too predictable on offense and defenses can prepare for just a few base plays, and once they stop those we are generally stuck. I was hoping to see a bit more innovation last night in our offense, so I was disappointed in this.

The good news is when we are legitimately better than the other team (like last night) we can roll with this conservative offense and do OK. I was happy we won last night, but I was still disturbed by the play-calling. Against a Notre Dame and Georgia (whose strength is their defense) we will suffer mightily.

I disagree with your characterization about transparency and predictability. I think our offensive coaches are much better at calling plays than we are. As with CPJ, sometimes one play is used to set up something later.

Duke was getting pretty good penetration, so the idea seemed to be to get the ball out quickly. There wasn’t a ton of time and the screens were pretty successful most of the game.

Not necessarily talking about you, but I always find it humorous when we act like we know more about our personnel and what plays we should be calling than the guys getting paid to work with these players everyday.

 

[bobongo]

We seem to run A LOT of WR screens. I did not count them last night, but there were a ton of them. It may be my perception but these things bothered me:
(1) we have been doing this all year, and by now every team we play knows they will need ot cheat up and stop that because it seems to be one of our base plays;
(2) we really haven’t then passed over the top of the cheating up DB’s to make them pay with effective mid range passes (15 yards or so). I have no idea why this isn’t a key component of our game plan, but we didn’t do it last night nor can I remember this being a serious part of any of our games this year.
(3) we do try a few deep bombs, and that’s good, but we certainly don’t do it enough (or succeed with it enough) to really force a change in the defenses against us
(4) last night I deistically recall one series where we ran 3 straight WR screens and all 3 failed. This wa sin the 2nd quarter somewhere around midfield and killed our drive, forcing a punt.

We also seem to telegraph a lot of our plays. When we line up empty backfield, it is a QB run (called or delayed) about 90% of the time. When I can lean over and tell my wife what’s coming, it’s a bad sign. I did that repeatedly last night.

I also felt that our running plays were pretty transparent. We seem to either run up the gut or run a WR screen in about 75% of our plays, with an occasional WR sweep thrown in for ’surprise’.

When we do NOT telegraph the play, it more often than not works. (remember the surprise when Pyron went in motion then took the snap under center to get us a key first down?)

My bottom line is I feel we have become too predictable on offense and defenses can prepare for just a few base plays, and once they stop those we are generally stuck. I was hoping to see a bit more innovation last night in our offense, so I was disappointed in this.

The good news is when we are legitimately better than the other team (like last night) we can roll with this conservative offense and do OK. I was happy we won last night, but I was still disturbed by the play-calling. Against a Notre Dame and Georgia (whose strength is their defense) we will suffer mightily.

Yeah, what worked against Duke well enough to win won't work down the road. What I don't get about the called QB runs is that Haynes King is a much better runner when he sees an opening and takes off. He's great in the open field, very hard to a bead on and get hold of, not so great in traffic. He's a slippery eel, not a power runner. I was relieved when he handed the ball off, because he doesn't need any more wear and tear.
I'd like to see the Jackets mix it up more next week.

 

[roadkill]

KIng's QB runs have been very successful for us in the past, and not in just one game. Duke seemed to have a spy on him or was otherwise ready for it. Also as others have speculated, King may not have been 100%.

 

[GTJake]

We seem to run A LOT of WR screens. I did not count them last night, but there were a ton of them. It may be my perception but these things bothered me:
(1) we have been doing this all year, and by now every team we play knows they will need ot cheat up and stop that because it seems to be one of our base plays;
(2) we really haven’t then passed over the top of the cheating up DB’s to make them pay with effective mid range passes (15 yards or so). I have no idea why this isn’t a key component of our game plan, but we didn’t do it last night nor can I remember this being a serious part of any of our games this year.
(3) we do try a few deep bombs, and that’s good, but we certainly don’t do it enough (or succeed with it enough) to really force a change in the defenses against us
(4) last night I deistically recall one series where we ran 3 straight WR screens and all 3 failed. This wa sin the 2nd quarter somewhere around midfield and killed our drive, forcing a punt.

We also seem to telegraph a lot of our plays. When we line up empty backfield, it is a QB run (called or delayed) about 90% of the time. When I can lean over and tell my wife what’s coming, it’s a bad sign. I did that repeatedly last night.

I also felt that our running plays were pretty transparent. We seem to either run up the gut or run a WR screen in about 75% of our plays, with an occasional WR sweep thrown in for ’surprise’.

When we do NOT telegraph the play, it more often than not works. (remember the surprise when Pyron went in motion then took the snap under center to get us a key first down?)

My bottom line is I feel we have become too predictable on offense and defenses can prepare for just a few base plays, and once they stop those we are generally stuck. I was hoping to see a bit more innovation last night in our offense, so I was disappointed in this.

The good news is when we are legitimately better than the other team (like last night) we can roll with this conservative offense and do OK. I was happy we won last night, but I was still disturbed by the play-calling. Against a Notre Dame and Georgia (whose strength is their defense) we will suffer mightily.

I agree with most of this especially telegraphing our plays. The replay of the Duke DL moving in the direct of the upcoming play at the snap was telling. The WR screens are intended to spread the defense which is needed, but I wish we would use the TE more. Also, the predictability is hurting us, the defensive game plan for our opponents are to take away the run by crowding the LOS, at times we seem not to have an answer for this. More game management experience for our coaching staff will hopefully cure this.

 

[CEB]

Yeah, what worked against Duke well enough to win won't work down the road. What I don't get about the called QB runs is that Haynes King is a much better runner when he sees an opening and takes off. He's great in the open field, very hard to a bead on and get hold of, not so great in traffic. He's a slippery eel, not a power runner. I was relieved when he handed the ball off, because he doesn't need any more wear and tear.
I'd like to see the Jackets mix it up more next week.

I’d like to see us roll him out a little more for exactly the reason above. The throw to Stockton when he rolled right to avoid pressure was pretty. I feel like some of that needs to be designed to get him to the edge and have throw / run option.
Now, maybe Duke was upfield quickly and designed roll could’ve been disaster, but I’m “feeling” it in theory!

 

[gtee91]

I agree with most of this especially telegraphing our plays. The replay of the Duke DL moving in the direct of the upcoming play at the snap was telling. The WR screens are intended to spread the defense which is needed, but I wish we would use the TE more. Also, the predictability is hurting us, the defensive game plan for our opponents are to take away the run by crowding the LOS, at times we seem not to have an answer for this. More game management experience for our coaching staff will hopefully cure this.

We were shouting what the play was from our section with about 80% accuracy so I am pretty sure the paid coaches on Duke knew too

 

[jeffgt14]

Agree completely about telegraphing our plays.

I am curious who our deep threat really is too. I think we have extremely talented wide receivers but they're also small. Our deep balls have to be on the money with our receivers winning with speed rather than anyone being able to catch a back shoulder throw. King doesn't seem to have an accurate enough deep ball to hit our receivers in stride.

 

[gte447f]

No one has mentioned the play where a Duke db came within a whisker of intercepting a wide receiver screen to the right side. He broke on the ball from about 10 yards away in a full sprint before King even let it go. He knew exactly what was coming and almost got a pick six that would have drastically changed the game.

I don’t think the short horizontal passes will work against better teams if that is all we are capable of. Surely we have to pass downfield at some point. I don’t have the stats handy, but I think King only averaged about 6-7 yards per completion.

 

[slugboy]

Duke was trying to time the snap for most of the game. We're telegraphing multiple things, and it's probably responsible for our two loses.

We're aware of some of it, because King changed his cadence and we pulled them offsides.

It's the snap count, it's the kind of play, and sometimes it's the play, but we have tells. Even if we didn't, first down is usually a run.

 

[stech81]

I disagree with your characterization about transparency and predictability. I think our offensive coaches are much better at calling plays than we are. As with CPJ, sometimes one play is used to set up something later.

Duke was getting pretty good penetration, so the idea seemed to be to get the ball out quickly. There wasn’t a ton of time and the screens were pretty successful most of the game.

Not necessarily talking about you, but I always find it humorous when we act like we know more about our personnel and what plays we should be calling than the guys getting paid to work with these players everyday.

I agree.
Some people don't understand why we can't score on every play.

 

[bke1984]

I was just watching part of the UNC game from last year. We were throwing all over the place in that game. WR screens, TE wheels, medium crossing routes, short outs. I haven’t seen us doing that much this year. I agree with the posts where it seems like just a lot more WR screens and inside zone. Maybe defenses are playing us differently - or maybe the confidence in our OLs ability to hold blocks has vanished.

 

[CEB]

No one has mentioned the play where a Duke db came within a whisker of intercepting a wide receiver screen to the right side. He broke on the ball from about 10 yards away in a full sprint before King even let it go. He knew exactly what was coming and almost got a pick six that would have drastically changed the game.

I don’t think the short horizontal passes will work against better teams if that is all we are capable of. Surely we have to pass downfield at some point. I don’t have the stats handy, but I think King only averaged about 6-7 yards per completion.

We also got away with a blatant hold on that play.
I think it was our TE who just reached out and grabbed a shoulder pad to throw the defender off the ball.
Good for him because the hold wouldn’t have been nearly as catastrophic (if called)

 

[TechPhi97]

We seem to run A LOT of WR screens. I did not count them last night, but there were a ton of them. It may be my perception but these things bothered me:
(1) we have been doing this all year, and by now every team we play knows they will need ot cheat up and stop that because it seems to be one of our base plays;
(2) we really haven’t then passed over the top of the cheating up DB’s to make them pay with effective mid range passes (15 yards or so). I have no idea why this isn’t a key component of our game plan, but we didn’t do it last night nor can I remember this being a serious part of any of our games this year.
(3) we do try a few deep bombs, and that’s good, but we certainly don’t do it enough (or succeed with it enough) to really force a change in the defenses against us
(4) last night I deistically recall one series where we ran 3 straight WR screens and all 3 failed. This wa sin the 2nd quarter somewhere around midfield and killed our drive, forcing a punt.

We also seem to telegraph a lot of our plays. When we line up empty backfield, it is a QB run (called or delayed) about 90% of the time. When I can lean over and tell my wife what’s coming, it’s a bad sign. I did that repeatedly last night.

I also felt that our running plays were pretty transparent. We seem to either run up the gut or run a WR screen in about 75% of our plays, with an occasional WR sweep thrown in for ’surprise’.

When we do NOT telegraph the play, it more often than not works. (remember the surprise when Pyron went in motion then took the snap under center to get us a key first down?)

My bottom line is I feel we have become too predictable on offense and defenses can prepare for just a few base plays, and once they stop those we are generally stuck. I was hoping to see a bit more innovation last night in our offense, so I was disappointed in this.

The good news is when we are legitimately better than the other team (like last night) we can roll with this conservative offense and do OK. I was happy we won last night, but I was still disturbed by the play-calling. Against a Notre Dame and Georgia (whose strength is their defense) we will suffer mightily.

We do call a lot of screens, but we also throw the intermediate routes. The throw to Bailey Stockton is a good example - 15 yards downfield to convert. Given the speed we have with Singleton and Rutherford, it’s typically a very good option - see Singleton’s TD (BTW-that was pretty sick).

All that said, it does feel like the play calling has stagnated a bit, or that we’ve created all of these tendencies but haven’t really countered the other teams counters effectively.

 

[ramblineck]

I was just watching part of the UNC game from last year. We were throwing all over the place in that game. WR screens, TE wheels, medium crossing routes, short outs. I haven’t seen us doing that much this year. I agree with the posts where it seems like just a lot more WR screens and inside zone. Maybe defenses are playing us differently - or maybe the confidence in our OLs ability to hold blocks has vanished.

This is my concern as well. We seemed to have closed up the playbook a lot more this year. We had a variety of plays especially in the 2nd half of last year so the potential is there but we aren’t unleashing it?

 

[jojatk]

I like that our coaches called the “score a TD” play more than the Duke coaches did

 

[WrongShadeOfGold]

I disagree with your characterization about transparency and predictability. I think our offensive coaches are much better at calling plays than we are. As with CPJ, sometimes one play is used to set up something later.

Duke was getting pretty good penetration, so the idea seemed to be to get the ball out quickly. There wasn’t a ton of time and the screens were pretty successful most of the game.

Not necessarily talking about you, but I always find it humorous when we act like we know more about our personnel and what plays we should be calling than the guys getting paid to work with these players everyday.

Geoff Collins is getting paid to coach football. Do you honestly think there aren't people out there who aren't paid coaches that know more than him?

 

[Bogey]

We have had a very vanilla offense this season and I am not sure why. Injuries, OL performance, defensive schemes against us, who really knows other than our staff. I will venture to say this, if we dont start playing a more diversfied offense, no way we will look good against ND, Miami, or UGA.

 

[cpf2001]

We mixed it up more last night. Short well-designed passing TD to Haynes and another good opportunities for an inside-the-ten pass TD earlier with a drop and a throw that got away. Run some of those against Louisville on that four down fail situation and maybe we win that game.

Still seems to be some telegraphing though.

It’s not that we think we’d be better at calling plays than our coaches. It’s that the D coaches seem good at knowing what we’re gonna call, and often even us fans are aware of what’s gonna be called in what situation.

We don’t have the personnel to tell most other teams exactly what we’re gonna do frequently and win anyway.

 

[GTBandit22]

Everyone, including myself, were calling for Buster to change it up. FSU inflated our sense of the strength of our front 5 to pound the ball.
I thought we did a good job mixing in screens. Looking back, they were some of our most successful plays, and made Duke pay for putting 8 in the box and some of the run blitzes. We couldn’t cash in as much as we should have, but you have to give credit to Dukes defense as well.
As others have said, it will be tougher to use this against faster teams with more speed, but more speed means running in the wrong direction faster as well. We will have to get more vertical, even if mid range.

Glad to see the TE more involved, but still not nearly enough. It will pay dividends in the run game if one of those guys can be a consistent target. Losing Seither hurts here, because he was always a red zone target and at the very least drew coverage.

A couple of my continued nits to pick:

Buster loves to repeatedly call numbers. King will have a tough run for 9, getting multiple hits, then we run him the next play. Jamal rips off a 40 yarder, then we give it the very next play. We have enough players at RB where we don’t need to do this. King is a man, but need to save him some wear and tear. It won’t kill us to hand it off after a tough run or throw a screen.

Our deep passing game is not very good. It is not Kings forte and we just can’t hit them with enough consistency. I think late last year we did a lot more mid range passing: 10-20 yards down the field. That is Kings sweet spot and our OL doesn’t need to sustain blocks too long.