Obstruction of Justice

Whiskey_Clear

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486

collegeballfan

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,694
From Congressional Research Service:
"Summary - Obstruction of justice is the impediment of governmental activities. There are a host of federal criminal laws that prohibit obstructions of justice. The six most general outlaw obstruction of judicial proceedings (18 U.S.C. 1503), witness tampering (18 U.S.C. 1512), witness retaliation (18 U.S.C. 1513), obstruction of congressional or administrative proceedings (18 U.S.C. 1505), conspiracy to defraud the United States (18 U.S.C. 371), and contempt (a creature of statute, rule and common law).
The laws that supplement, and sometimes mirror, the basic six tend to proscribe a particular means of obstruction. Some, like the perjury and false statement statutes, condemn obstruction by lies and deception. Others, like the bribery, mail fraud, and wire fraud statutes, prohibit obstruction by corruption of public employees or officials. Some outlaw the use of violence as a means of obstruction. Still others ban the destruction of evidence. A few simply punish “tipping off” those who are the targets of an investigation. "
 

Deleted member 2897

Guest
Milwaukee said:
Click to expand...


I'd be interested to read how they came up with that. I guess since there are links in the references I'll have to do the reading and find out instead of having someone spoon feed me. :)

My biggest beef with illegal immigration is that its a basic supply/demand issue with labor. We have about 140 million workers in this country. The bottom third of those (about 40 million) are working class and lower working class families. If you flood 20 million mostly working class people into that same group, all of a sudden you have 50% more people vying for the same jobs. It drives wages down. Its the old adage we've heard about for many many years now - the rich keep getting richer and the working class is treading water trying to keep their head above water.
 

smathis30

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
732
bwelbo said:
I'd be interested to read how they came up with that. I guess since there are links in the references I'll have to do the reading and find out instead of having someone spoon feed me. :)

My biggest beef with illegal immigration is that its a basic supply/demand issue with labor. We have about 140 million workers in this country. The bottom third of those (about 40 million) are working class and lower working class families. If you flood 20 million mostly working class people into that same group, all of a sudden you have 50% more people vying for the same jobs. It drives wages down. Its the old adage we've heard about for many many years now - the rich keep getting richer and the working class is treading water trying to keep their head above water.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Likely one of the reasons minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation. Thing with this is that immigration is a federal responsibility and not a state one was it's hard to say they are impeding justice when they aren't doing anything. Had they said they were coming for Tom, Joe, and Lisa, yes it would. But saying you're coming to a city to crack down on a crime and letting people know about it I don't view as obstruction as there is no specific charge (read person and crime) being obstructed. It's too generic IMO. Most illegals come from overstayed visas and from my experience with ICE at an old job, fake or stolen SSN# which makes them hard to trace, which is why I'm against the wall but for better crackdown on visas.
 
ATL1

ATL1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,377
The wall is a simpleton waste of money. I’m for sovereign borders and proper legalization, that said the process needs reform.
 

Deleted member 2897

Guest
smathis30 said:
Agreed. Likely one of the reasons minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation. Thing with this is that immigration is a federal responsibility and not a state one was it's hard to say they are impeding justice when they aren't doing anything. Had they said they were coming for Tom, Joe, and Lisa, yes it would. But saying you're coming to a city to crack down on a crime and letting people know about it I don't view as obstruction as there is no specific charge (read person and crime) being obstructed. It's too generic IMO. Most illegals come from overstayed visas and from my experience with ICE at an old job, fake or stolen SSN# which makes them hard to trace, which is why I'm against the wall but for better crackdown on visas.
Click to expand...

Yep, the whole process down through Visas’s, H1b’s and legal green cards needs reform.
 

grandpa jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
610
Whiskey_Clear said:
Getting government info on a pending raid / raids, and then warning the targets of same it is pending...is far more an act of obstruction of justice than anything Trump has done while in office.
Click to expand...
I think if i were you, i would wait for the Mueller probe to end, there is more smoke than a nuclear explosion
 

MWBATL

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,150
ATL1 said:
The wall is a simpleton waste of money. I’m for sovereign borders and proper legalization, that said the process needs reform.
Click to expand...
(1) Tons of things the government does are colossal wastes of money. The wall is about 10% of the waste that Obama gave to Iran.....
(2) I have always taken "the wall" to be partially symbolic and partially real...that is, in some stretches it would be a real physical wall and in others beefed up security of other types. I believe Trump has said as much. So, not sure I understand the criticism unless you are a MSNBC watcher and think he literally means ONLY a physical wall. If so, you should check other sources.
 
Techster

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
17,815
ATL1 said:
The wall is a simpleton waste of money.
Click to expand...

Irony of the wall? Anyone...?

So, anyone work in construction, or been around a construction site in the last...oh, 30+/- years? The main laborers/workers on construction sites are usually not...um, caucasian. Seeing as how the wall will be built in cities literally next to Mexico, and the population of those cities are heavily, um, not caucasian....venture to guess who will actually "build" that wall? C'mon, the irony there is going to be pretty funny. Dudes/and or females will literally wake up, cross the border into America to work on the wall, then re-cross the border when the work day ends to go home.

BTW...what's the point of walls these days when there are drones? I'm not getting into a political argument about if we should or should not build a wall, I'm just being practical. Why even bother with walls?

Better investment would be drones that detect heat from humans, and then either shoot at them, or have border patrol intercept them. You only need to shoot a few people before word gets out that those big things flying around the border will turn you into Swiss cheese or ground beef.

Plus, drones will give our local law enforcement practice defending our country for the inevitable Russian and Chinese invasion...
 
Last edited:
B Lifsey

B Lifsey

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,379
Location
Barnesville, Georgia
Techster said:
Irony of the wall? Anyone...?

So, anyone work in construction, or been around a construction site in the last...oh, 30+/- years? The main laborers/workers on construction sites are usually not...um, caucasian. Seeing as how the wall will be built in cities literally next to Mexico, and the population of those cities are heavily, um, not caucasian....venture to guess who will actually "build" that wall? C'mon, the irony there is going to be pretty funny. Dudes/and or females will literally wake up, cross the border into America to work on the wall, then re-cross the border when the work day ends to go home.

BTW...what's the point of walls these days when there are drones? I'm not getting into a political argument about if we should or should not build a wall, I'm just being practical. Why even bother with walls?

Better investment would be drones that detect heat from humans, and then either shoot at them, or have border patrol intercept them. You only need to shoot a few people before word gets out that those big things flying around the border will turn you into Swiss cheese.

Plus, drones will give our local law enforcement practice defending our country for the inevitable Russian and Chinese invasion...
Click to expand...

And, create some pretty cool YouTube footage!
 

Deleted member 2897

Guest
Techster said:
Irony of the wall? Anyone...?

So, anyone work in construction, or been around a construction site in the last...oh, 30+/- years? The main laborers/workers on construction sites are usually not...um, caucasian. Seeing as how the wall will be built in cities literally next to Mexico, and the population of those cities are heavily, um, not caucasian....venture to guess who will actually "build" that wall? C'mon, the irony there is going to be pretty funny. Dudes/and or females will literally wake up, cross the border into America to work on the wall, then re-cross the border when the work day ends to go home.

BTW...what's the point of walls these days when there are drones? I'm not getting into a political argument about if we should or should not build a wall, I'm just being practical. Why even bother with walls?

Better investment would be drones that detect heat from humans, and then either shoot at them, or have border patrol intercept them. You only need to shoot a few people before word gets out that those big things flying around the border will turn you into Swiss cheese.

Plus, drones will give our local law enforcement practice defending our country for the inevitable Russian and Chinese invasion...
Click to expand...

Reminds me of when someone found out the Border Patrol uniforms were made from some other country.

Just because someone hires illegal workers somewhere doesn't mean everyone does. And doesn't mean it has to be done that way here. Construction and infrastructure should be a fiscal stimulus by helping put unemployed people back to work in well paying jobs - which should be in high need all along the southern border. People moved from all over the country to the upper midwest for $75k+ fracking jobs. Offer high paying jobs and people will come.

In terms of drones and surveillance, that's exactly the plan. I don't know what amount of the border is planned to be walled versus not, but there is a massive amount of space that won't have a wall for a variety of reasons. I would imagine in highly populated areas versus wide open places you'd absolutely need different forms of surveillance and border security.

Something like 40% of illegal immigrants are visa overstays. We need to sharpen the penalty on those people too and be deporting them.

And we need to get control over legal immigration. There are so many well meaning, well intending people from all over the world wanting to come here legally that there is no reason to let people at random come in from who knows where. By stemming the flow of illegal immigrants, we should only be able to have more legally, the right way. Conceptually of course. :D
 
ATL1

ATL1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,377
Visas
Strong patrol
Drones
But how about a better more up to date immigration policy.

A “Wall” is absolutely silly bigoted pandering to other simple as hell bigots who use boogeyman tactics to make something so dumb sound rational.

What happened to Mexico paying for it btw? more stupidity.
 
Top