Note from Juanyeh Thomas

Vespidie

Jolly Good Fellow
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If I didn't know any better, I'd have thought this was a discussion on the merits of social welfare programs, their effects on college football athletes families and the additional safety net needed from the money hungry NCAA. The NCAA has monopolized college athletics and are reaping a HUGE reward for doing so.

This thread has devolved into a discussion regarding society and the responsibilities for the social welfare of those families of athletes most in need. Take this **** to AOC or some other social Democratic web site, because it doesn't belong in a sport's forum.
 

GTZachary

Jolly Good Fellow
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230
It is probably a moot point, but the scholarship that these athletes receive is much, much more than just tuition. (it includes room, board, books, fees, some clothes, etc.) It is still probably only an average of 40-65K, which is not a lot, but still. And, in the case of private schools, it is well into the hundreds of thousands.

This, plus gaining entrance to a school that most wouldn't have had a shot of getting into. Compare the median starting and mid career salaries at a place like the University of Florida to somewhere like UCF for example. Looking at 100s of thousands of dollars of difference in median career earnings. It's a great deal for most.
 

Technut1990

Ramblin' Wreck
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960
So to me the question is simple. Why do we act like a free ride isn’t being paid ?

How much does it cost a regular paying student to attend Tech ?
 

ramblinjacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
752
So to me the question is simple. Why do we act like a free ride isn’t being paid ?

How much does it cost a regular paying student to attend Tech ?
Because it isn't getting paid.
1) you can choose how you spend the money you get paid, you can't choose on a "free ride"
2) when you are paid you are taxed on the pay. You aren't taxed on a "free ride".
 

yellajacket20

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
72
So to me the question is simple. Why do we act like a free ride isn’t being paid ?

How much does it cost a regular paying student to attend Tech ?
But a regular student could have a part time job and send money home to support their family. An athlete doesn't have this ability, isn't that correct?

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Jerry the Jacket

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It gets down to personal responsibility. If your family is struggling you might have to forgo a college football scholarship and get a job to help out at home. I know a lot of folks don't want to hear that, but sometimes the world hands you a crap sandwich and sooner or later you have to learn how to deal with it. My Dad grew up in the depression and had to drop out of school when he was 12 years old to pick crops in the fields so he could help his family have something to eat. He later joined the CCC at 14 and worked out in Oregon building national parks and sent every cent he made back to his parents and siblings so they could eat and pay their rent. I know it's a different time but at the end of the day you have to set your priorities, live with that decision and move on.

Go Jackets!
 

VintageWreck

Jolly Good Fellow
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266
But a regular student could have a part time job and send money home to support their family. An athlete doesn't have this ability, isn't that correct?

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No Yella. It is not correct. Not while in school.
A regular student is not sending home to help his family. Even with a co-op, or internship opportunity.
They are still just getting by. Many with student loan debt.
 

yeti92

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1,595
But a regular student could have a part time job and send money home to support their family. An athlete doesn't have this ability, isn't that correct?

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Athletes have the option to be a regular student instead of an athlete, or not go to college at all if they want to make money and send it home to family. Probably not at the quality of schools where they can be an athlete, but that is the other option.
 

kyle.smith828

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152
Spoken from a place of privilege. You dont think extreme povety might contribute to a mental breakdown? College football is a huge industry that everyone makes money on except the ones putting themselves on the line. I gotta take some time to continue this convo, as I might get hot.

Sure, but the inverse is true as well: mental breakdown can lead to poverty.

From the facts gathered from his family and his mother's video, it appears she confirms she has been/is dealing with mental health issues of her own, which I'd imagine could help push an individual into poverty.
 

LongforDodd

LatinxBreakfastTacos
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2,557
Somewhat of an irrelevant question but when we did our in home visits with Trey I wonder what our recruiters understood of his family situation? This is not meant, in any way, to cast aspersions on anyone.
 

a5ehren

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
421
If I didn't know any better, I'd have thought this was a discussion on the merits of social welfare programs, their effects on college football athletes families and the additional safety net needed from the money hungry NCAA. The NCAA has monopolized college athletics and are reaping a HUGE reward for doing so.

This thread has devolved into a discussion regarding society and the responsibilities for the social welfare of those families of athletes most in need. Take this **** to AOC or some other social Democratic web site, because it doesn't belong in a sport's forum.
"Sticking to sports" has not ever been a thing. Especially in college sports.

The inputs and outputs of big-time revenue sports are deeply intertwined with the racial and economic politics of the last 150 years, whether you want to think about it or not.
 

Boaty1

Helluva Engineer
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1,081
"Sticking to sports" has not ever been a thing. Especially in college sports.

The inputs and outputs of big-time revenue sports are deeply intertwined with the racial and economic politics of the last 150 years, whether you want to think about it or not.

True. And the positive affects collegiate athletics have had on minority communities is clear. Let's not do something to remove that.
 

a5ehren

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
421
True. And the positive affects collegiate athletics have had on minority communities is clear. Let's not do something to remove that.
I would strenuously disagree that it has been a clear, unquestionable positive.

A relative handful of kids actually getting useful degrees (as opposed to the do-nothing "factory" degrees a lot of these revenue sports kids get) and an even smaller number getting pro sports money is not a reason to avoid reform.
 

GTZachary

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
230
I would strenuously disagree that it has been a clear, unquestionable positive.

A relative handful of kids actually getting useful degrees (as opposed to the do-nothing "factory" degrees a lot of these revenue sports kids get) and an even smaller number getting pro sports money is not a reason to avoid reform.

It’s more than a handful. It’s one of the few vehicles a kid has to get out of these situations, and it’s an opportunity unique to America.

Edit to say I’m super open to reform, if there’s reform that is a positive.
 
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vadimivich

Georgia Tech Fan
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81
Location
Wien, Österreich
I would strenuously disagree that it has been a clear, unquestionable positive.

A relative handful of kids actually getting useful degrees (as opposed to the do-nothing "factory" degrees a lot of these revenue sports kids get) and an even smaller number getting pro sports money is not a reason to avoid reform.

I think from a societal level it has been a huge positive - especially in terms of particularly changing the perception and profile of African Americans in the deep south. Having black athletes be the unquestioned faces of these major southern institutions (and in many cases, the de facto faces for entire states) has been a massive positive change (and it's why integration of those institutions was so important).

That doesn't mean that college athletics isn't deeply flawed and needs major changes - even flawed institutions can be positive forces - but overall college athletics is a bright spot in the stalled civil rights movement.
 

jojatk

Helluva Engineer
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1,013
It gets down to personal responsibility. If your family is struggling you might have to forgo a college football scholarship and get a job to help out at home. I know a lot of folks don't want to hear that, but sometimes the world hands you a crap sandwich and sooner or later you have to learn how to deal with it. My Dad grew up in the depression and had to drop out of school when he was 12 years old to pick crops in the fields so he could help his family have something to eat. He later joined the CCC at 14 and worked out in Oregon building national parks and sent every cent he made back to his parents and siblings so they could eat and pay their rent. I know it's a different time but at the end of the day you have to set your priorities, live with that decision and move on.

Go Jackets!

First of all much respect to your Dad!!! I wish there were more people like him around these days!!! Personal responsibility should be a timeless concept.

Let me pose a scenario and I promise this is sincere and I'm not going to jump on whatever you say: What if your Dad had had the opportunity to both support his family AND stay in school? Assume for the sake of this discussion that he could have earned enough while still in school to provide adequate support... Of course he didn't have that option back then but I'm sure it would have been nice to have had that choice whether he exercised it or not.

What I'm honestly wondering (which means I don't have an answer) at this point is whether it's possible to provide that type of option to the student-athletes because what they do is bringing in so much money to the industry. I don't have the answer to that question in my own mind. There are so many other points to consider and I absolutely recognize it's not that simple. There are so many things to consider not the least of which is how would you police it and would there be a difference between what an athlete could get at Alabama which makes TONS of money vs GT which doesn't and how do you reconcile that some sports make money and others don't... And let me also make it clear that what happened to Bryce is NOT the NCAA's fault and I'm in no way, shape, or form putting ANY of the blame there. I think that smarter people than me should be able to figure it out.
 

TechPhi97

Jolly Good Fellow
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276
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Davidson, NC
I understand there are concerns about “abuse” when it comes to allowing players to profit off their likeness and I don’t know the solution to prevent all of that but I think they should err to the side of allowing these adults to make money off of who they are and their talents.

If the NCAA wants to claim that the scholarship is the entirety of the compensation that the player can receive then I’d really like to see them hold the schools more accountable for educating and supporting the athletes as they enter the working world. But I haven’t seen them do that and they seem to give schools hand slaps for pushing the kids through paper classes and then come down hard if a kid accepts a sweatshirt.

It just feels a bit exploitative to have these coaches making millions going into some of these poor communities to recruit kids and then NCAA tells them and their family to wait several years before they can monetize their talents. And in some cases the kid could then be pushed through the system or processed out.

Bolded above is the real problem. UNC pushed kids through for a decade and got nothing. Our football players are given clothes and we vacate a championship.
 

Vespidae

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Auburn, AL
This topic has many passionate voices, but my question is ... What problem are we trying to solve here?

World peace? Hunger? Poverty? Domestic relations? Mental health?

If the State of Georgia wants to create an organization to deal with these topics, great! But a college athletic program has a limited ability to address these issues effectively.
 

Vespidie

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
158
Location
Albuquerque
This topic has many passionate voices, but my question is ... What problem are we trying to solve here?

World peace? Hunger? Poverty? Domestic relations? Mental health?

If the State of Georgia wants to create an organization to deal with these topics, great! But a college athletic program has a limited ability to address these issues effectively.

Agreed and Jerry the Jacket hit the nail on the head with his assessment. Each and every scholarship athlete has a personal responsibility. First and foremost to himself, and in many cases his family, to excel on the playing field, but especially in the classroom if family dependence is a requirement. 4-5 years is a moment in time to be 'exploited" by a big time college athletic program, if the end game is the ability to financially support ones self as well as providing support to family. The idea that colleges, universities, or even the big bad NCAA should dole out "welfare" benefits to those deemed in need of such aid is absolutely ludicrous. If you don't like the system, then don't play their game, and do what others that don't have the athletic or intellectual ability to go to a university or college do.....learn a trade or get a job. Hard work isn't such a bad thing, and has many benefits associated with it..
 

jojatk

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,013
Agreed and Jerry the Jacket hit the nail on the head with his assessment. Each and every scholarship athlete has a personal responsibility. First and foremost to himself, and in many cases his family, to excel on the playing field, but especially in the classroom if family dependence is a requirement. 4-5 years is a moment in time to be 'exploited" by a big time college athletic program, if the end game is the ability to financially support ones self as well as providing support to family. The idea that colleges, universities, or even the big bad NCAA should dole out "welfare" benefits to those deemed in need of such aid is absolutely ludicrous. If you don't like the system, then don't play their game, and do what others that don't have the athletic or intellectual ability to go to a university or college do.....learn a trade or get a job. Hard work isn't such a bad thing, and has many benefits associated with it..

Except the concept isn't "welfare." Welfare is when financial aid is GIVEN to people who need it. I think the point that's being missed is that those who would like to see the players get some money feel that the athletes are EARNING it and aren't being remunerated fairly. At one time it was likely true that the scholarship and room and board were a fair wage but that might not be the case anymore. Sometimes the problem is that the system is broken and needs to be fixed and if the means are available to do so then why not do it in order to offer those who deserve it something more?
 
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