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Next Supreme Court Justice

Discussion in 'The Swarm Lounge' started by LibertyTurns, Jul 1, 2018.

  1. Lotta Juice

    Lotta Juice Helluva Engineer

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    778
    What has she said or done that informs your view that she dislikes or hates those of another race?

    Or...are you equating thinking people of a certain race having privilege with hate/dislike?
     
  2. ramblinwreckguru

    ramblinwreckguru Helluva Engineer

    Messages:
    878
    Yes. It is my opinion that Sotomayor dislikes or hates the white anglo race in general though she may have several token white friends.

    Edit - I'll even take it 1 step further. I believe that the white anglo race is the most hated race in this country.
     
  3. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    16,374
    The whole notion of privilege is so overused and misused (not speaking at you, its just a natural place to reply in with this comment). What many refer to as undeserved privilege is actually called freedom and liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Nobody should feel guilty for having a good life and making something of it. What should instead be the focus is inequities in systems due to socioeconomic disadvantages or prejudice and racism. Living a life without suffering those disadvantages is not a privilege that they are lucky to have or should feel guilty of. It’s simply the way everyone should have it. It reminds me of arguments around how much money people make or have. Its not a bad thing to have a lot of money or make it. We shouldn't be trying to confiscate someone else's property. Rather we should be trying to figure out how to help more people get there instead.
     
  4. Lotta Juice

    Lotta Juice Helluva Engineer

    Messages:
    778
    Yes, I understand that. You've made it abundantly clear that you think that she hates the white anglo race. I'm curious as to what actions or statements informed that opinion, or is it just an opinion?
     
  5. Lotta Juice

    Lotta Juice Helluva Engineer

    Messages:
    778
    I agree to an extent. Privilege does get thrown around a lot, especially on twitter, and can frequently be used as a weapon to silence or attack some people but I don't think that just because some throw it around too much it negates the premise. I think many people, including myself, can get defensive when faced with their "privileges" as if it negates the hard work they've done but it shouldn't necessarily be the case. And a lot of it depends how it's being communicated. One way I look at it now is that "privilege" can often be a synonym for advantages or blessings. I was privileged/blessed to grow up in a household with 2 loving parents who supported my endeavors and helped me get to college by taking out some loans along with the ones I took out. Not everyone has that. And I don't think anyone is trying to confiscate that from me but I do think it's important to be cognizant of those things. Without some of that self-awareness it's similar to a person born on third thinking they hit a triple.
     
    bwelbo likes this.
  6. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    16,374
    Yup. I am a pretty religious person and when I stop and think, saying I was blessed in some way can make me cringe...as that implies God chose to bless me but chose to curse someone else. That may be why some people frame it 'by the Grace of God'...As you can tell, I overthink things a lot LOL.

    The only place I disagree with you is on the notion of being born on third base. There is no home plate. The economic pie is not a fixed size. There is no finish line where you only have to run 2 steps to get there while everyone else has to run 100 steps. Like I said, I overthink things LOL. It is undeniable some people have to work twice as hard as others.
     
    Lotta Juice likes this.
  7. forensicbuzz

    forensicbuzz Helluva Engineer

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    3,226
    No. By definition, racism requires the belief that one race is superior to another. Just dislike or Hate wouldn't necessarily indicate a belief of superiority. However, I think that's a hard distinction. Someone with a racial inferiority complex might be considered racist for believing they are inferior. It's hard to justify hating an entire group of people without thinking you're superior or inferior to that group, but that's not a guarantee.

    Racial bias is not racism.
     
  8. ramblinwreckguru

    ramblinwreckguru Helluva Engineer

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    878
    At a 2001 UC Berkeley symposium, Sotomayor said that the gender and ethnicity of judges does and should affect their judicial decision-making. From her speech:

    "By ignoring our differences as women or men of color we do a disservice both to the law and society. I accept that our experiences as women and people of color affect our decisions. The aspiration to impartiality is just that--it's an aspiration because it denies the fact that we are by our experiences making different choices than others."

    "Our gender and national origins may and will make a difference in our judging. Justice O'Connor has often been cited as saying that a wise old man and wise old woman will reach the same conclusion in deciding cases. I am not so sure that I agree with the statement. First, there can never be a universal definition of wise. Second, I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experience would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life."



    Could you imagine the uproar is Judge Roberts made the statement "I would hope that a wise white man with the richness of his experience would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a Latina woman who hasn't lived that life."?
     
  9. Technut1990

    Technut1990 Helluva Engineer

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    2,143
    perceived systemic bias
     
  10. ramblinwreckguru

    ramblinwreckguru Helluva Engineer

    Messages:
    878
    Below are the (3) definitions given by Merriam Webster. I would say that definition #3 fits my statement.

    racism
    noun
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    rac·ism | \ ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi- \
    Definition of racism


    1: a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
    2a: a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles
    b: a political or social system founded on racism
    3: racial prejudice or discrimination
     
  11. Lotta Juice

    Lotta Juice Helluva Engineer

    Messages:
    778
    The third base analogy wasn't intended to imply there's a finish line or fixed pie. I agree with you on that point. And the "bases" of the analogy will be relative to each individual. But I referred to that analogy because there are plenty of people who have their university completely paid for and get a job at their daddy's firm and will be oblivious to the advantages that helped them get where they are when compared to others. e.g. "What? You haven't been to Europe before? You gotta go."
     
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  12. Lotta Juice

    Lotta Juice Helluva Engineer

    Messages:
    778
    So....you think she's a racist and hates white people because 18 years ago she said, "I would hope that a wise Latina woman with the richness of her experience would more often than not reach a better conclusion than a white male who hasn't lived that life."

    Seems like a bit of a reach but you do you.
     
  13. forensicbuzz

    forensicbuzz Helluva Engineer

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    3,226
    Dictionaries are descriptive, not proscriptive. Definition #3 exists because people too often misuse to word to represent something that it was never intended to represent. Over time, additional inferences are added to the dictionary. I hate the misuse of the term "racism." The word suposably and irregardless are also in the dictionary. That doesn't make them proper.
     
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  14. ramblinwreckguru

    ramblinwreckguru Helluva Engineer

    Messages:
    878
    Would dislikes white people make you feel better?
     
  15. ramblinwreckguru

    ramblinwreckguru Helluva Engineer

    Messages:
    878
    What is a word if not what most people think it means?
     
  16. forensicbuzz

    forensicbuzz Helluva Engineer

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    3,226
    There in lies the problem. You can make words mean whatever you want just by setting a narrative and getting people to parrot it.

    For someone to be racist, they need to express a sentiment of superiority due to racial differences. It actually doesn't even need to be expressed in a negative sense to be racism.

    Roger Banister was called a racist because he stated the black runners had an inherent advantage as sprinters because they tended to have larger muscle mass in their legs. He spent his entire career researching how to go faster, and was the first man to break the 4 minute mile.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
  17. Lotta Juice

    Lotta Juice Helluva Engineer

    Messages:
    778
    Not really. I'm not seeing that she dislikes anyone in the quote you posted.
     
  18. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    16,374
    She has big political differences with people. The only defective thing about her is her pancreas.
     
  19. Technut1990

    Technut1990 Helluva Engineer

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    when I feel blessed i'm expressing a fortunate feeling that I ascribe to God watching out for or over me I am not thinking that God thinks i'm better than anyone else but that I am fortunate. We all can be blessed through hard work, inheritance or whatever. Usually when someone else uses the word privileged toward another it is condescending and the result of a judgement which is often wrong.

    A white man working at his fathers firm may look privileged until you learn that the white man sent himself through school because the firm is in debt and dad was tied up in bankruptcy and the white man is working at half pay, trying to help his father generate money to relieve the debt on the family business that they are about to lose. Privilege is as much in the mind of the judging party as the person being judged.

    That's the problem with the privileged label, nobody knows the real circumstances
     
  20. ramblinwreckguru

    ramblinwreckguru Helluva Engineer

    Messages:
    878
    And if you flip the words "white male" and "Latina woman" and have it spoken by a white male judge, do you not think that many would consider that man a sexist and a racist?
     

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