Midline Fumble

Longestday

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Well, I want to be fair and post the good and the bad.

This is what appears to be a midline. I say this due to the A-Back heading into the hole.

I believe Laskey is reading the correct read of not give and is most likely not expecting the give. Laskey is looking down the throat of two LB heading right at him... like train lights in a dark tunnel. The keep looks to be well blocked for decent yardage.

 

Longestday

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Help me out here... The midline is a give based on the LB right? The LB gets sucked outside due to the 3TO. If the LB jumps outside for the "normal 3TO", then the BB is free on the midline right (as long as the center hits the other LB)?

The midline seems so important to stop the quick outside pursuit and keep the defense "honest". I know we have the dive, but the midline seems like a better tool and looks more like a 3TO.

There is also the counter option to counter flow to the side of the 3TO. But this is somewhat of a delayed play and has more risk of loss of yards. I would not run a counter option with PJ Davis on the back side... he runs down our A-Backs on the rocket toss from the back side. Now that is something!
 

Longestday

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Is the midline more effective when they have the 1 Mike LB and the other LB line up on the outside?
 

Pj4prez01

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Well, I want to be fair and post the good and the bad.

This is what appears to be a midline. I say this due to the A-Back heading into the hole.

I believe Laskey is reading the correct read of not give and is most likely not expecting the give. Laskey is looking down the throat of two LB heading right at him... like train lights in a dark tunnel. The keep looks to be well blocked for decent yardage.


It is hard to say what play that was. The center missed his block on the backside linebacker. If it was a 3O the tackle blocked the wrong guy and should have blocked down and laskey should have gotten the ball.

Although the way the A back shot up the hole, I think the tackle blocked the right guy and it was a designed qb run, people call it different things. I don't think the bback was an option on this one and the ball just slipped on byerley.

Either way, laskey isn't reading anything. Even on option plays, his only focus is on hitting the hole fast and hard, the qb is telling him if he is getting the ball or not.
 

GTNavyNuke

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......... Either way, laskey isn't reading anything. Even on option plays, his only focus is on hitting the hole fast and hard, the qb is telling him if he is getting the ball or not.

What exactly happens during the mesh? Is the QB the one who decides whether to pull the ball back and the only way the BB knows whether he is going to keep the ball is by how tightly the QB holds onto the ball? Or is there some verbal or other communication?

Thanks for the posts.
 

AE 87

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I can't remember if it was @TVan or someone else, but this is what I took away from a post in one of the other threads

1) I agree with the OP that this is midline lead.

2) Since the handoff key (playside DT) is playing 1tech (attacking the Agap inside the guard), the guard washes him out.

3) At this point, iiuc, the midline dive is no longer an option so the Bback becomes another lead blocker for the QB. That's why z apparently wasn't expecting a mesh.

4) So, Idk if TB was confused or ad libbing, but I think the fumble is on him.
 

Longestday

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Right... The Bback does not read, but he knows what the read is.... AE says it better than me by "expecting".
 

wingsrlevel

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I can't remember if it was @TVan or someone else, but this is what I took away from a post in one of the other threads

1) I agree with the OP that this is midline lead.

2) Since the handoff key (playside DT) is playing 1tech (attacking the Agap inside the guard), the guard washes him out.

3) At this point, iiuc, the midline dive is no longer an option so the Bback becomes another lead blocker for the QB. That's why z apparently wasn't expecting a mesh.

4) So, Idk if TB was confused or ad libbing, but I think the fumble is on him.


You are exactly correct on your thoughts. TB should have followed the BB through the hole. ZL has to see the wash of the guard (shaq). When he sees this he knows he's not getting the ball and becomes a blocker who should pick up a LB. TB should have tucked the ball and ran it behind the BB (Laskey) and the AB (Zenon) who should have picked up the other (LB). This fumble is on the QB. IIRC CPJ ripped TB pretty good after this play.
 

dressedcheeseside

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You are exactly correct on your thoughts. TB should have followed the BB through the hole. ZL has to see the wash of the guard (shaq). When he sees this he knows he's not getting the ball and becomes a blocker who should pick up a LB. TB should have tucked the ball and ran it behind the BB (Laskey) and the AB (Zenon) who should have picked up the other (LB). This fumble is on the QB. IIRC CPJ ripped TB pretty good after this play.
I didn't know the Bback read plays on his own to determine the dive/keep. I thought he either got the handoff or didn't and that it's all up to the qb.
 

wingsrlevel

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No...if the QB/BB aren't reading the same thing it usually gets ugly. That is exactly what made TW a good QB. That's why it is virtually impossible to start as a freshman in this offense and be adequate.
 

gtg936g

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The pre-snap read of the DT should tell TB not to give unless he flips the direction of the play. The DT alignment essentially turns this play into a keep by the QB through the play side B gap.

The QB can usually flip the direction of the play or check to another play based on D alignment. This works until the D shifts after you check the play. This is what happened to Tevin in the OT loss to Miami. The NT lined up head up with the center so he checked to the toss. The D shifted and he tried to run the sneak while everyone else ran the toss.
 

zhavenor

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I didn't know the Bback read plays on his own to determine the dive/keep. I thought he either got the handoff or didn't and that it's all up to the qb.
The dive back is not "reading" anything as you are intending. If the ball is still there when he gets to a point he will take it. He does however read the block of the 1st man on the line of scrimmage inside the dive read for where he is supposed to go, but I don't think that was what you were asking.
 

wingsrlevel

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The dive back is not "reading" anything as you are intending. If the ball is still there when he gets to a point he will take it. He does however read the block of the 1st man on the line of scrimmage inside the dive read for where he is supposed to go, but I don't think that was what you were asking.

You are incorrect. He is reading the tackle just like the QB is suppose to read the tackle on this play. Every player needs to be on the same page. OL, QB and BB or you get a busted play or turnover.
 

TVan

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The dive back is not "reading" anything as you are intending. If the ball is still there when he gets to a point he will take it. He does however read the block of the 1st man on the line of scrimmage inside the dive read for where he is supposed to go, but I don't think that was what you were asking.
The dive back is reading. He knows he is not getting the ball because if the 1 tech. His rule is to slide off the PS guard and pick up linebacker. TB made the mistake. He should of just flashed it and followed him.
 

Pj4prez01

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What exactly happens during the mesh? Is the QB the one who decides whether to pull the ball back and the only way the BB knows whether he is going to keep the ball is by how tightly the QB holds onto the ball? Or is there some verbal or other communication?

Thanks for the posts.

On old school option, there used to just be a loose mesh and the qb would ride the mesh with the bback. the bback would have a loose grip on the ball and the qb would decide to pull or give, and if he gave , the bback would clamp down on the ball, more based on timing than feeling the qb let go. Nowadays the mesh has been sped way up, which makes it harder on the qb, and the qb uses the angle of the ball to signal to the bb if he is getting it or not by brushing the top elbow of the bb with the tip of the ball. This also allows the qb to have a tighter grip throughout the process.
 

LongforDodd

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Well, I want to be fair and post the good and the bad.

This is what appears to be a midline. I say this due to the A-Back heading into the hole.

I believe Laskey is reading the correct read of not give and is most likely not expecting the give. Laskey is looking down the throat of two LB heading right at him... like train lights in a dark tunnel. The keep looks to be well blocked for decent yardage.

To me it looked like Byerly expected to handoff to Laskey.
 
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