If you are asking WHY

[RickStromFan]

I have a different take on this recruiting stuff, especially as it relates to the old regime.

Recruiting - Current

1. When you run the same system that everyone else runs, you have to have equal players to be as good, or better players to be better. Not that complicated.
2. How many players equal to the players in the area can Georgia Tech? That would be against Georgia, Alabama, Clemson, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Florida, Florida State, Central Florida, Miami, South Florida, North Carolina, NC State, etc. Those are the main competition in the region for top recruits.
3. How many elite players in the area can Georgia Tech get? That would be against Georgia, Alabama, Clemson, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Florida, Florida State, Central Florida, Miami, South Florida, North Carolina, NC State, etc. Those are the main competition in the region for top recruits.

Recruiting - Option Regime

1. When you run a system that is designed to make up for size and talent disparities... you don't have to have equal players to be as good. You don't have to have better players to be better than the competition. You just have to run the scheme efficiently and it is proven to work. That is why Army, without a single player who could play for Oklahoma or Michigan, took those schools to overtime in the past year.
2. How many great athletes are out there that Georgia Tech can get that Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, Florida State, etc want to convert to safety or wide receiver, but want to play quarterback?
3. How many power backs are out there that want to play BB?
4. How many great athletes are out there that don't fit in traditional offenses, but would make excellent AB's?
5. How many under recruited wide receivers are out there that make excellent blockers or deep ball threats?

History tells me that is easier to recruit to the Option Regime than the Current Regime... There is always a Justin Thomas, a Tobias Oliver, a Josh Nesbitt, a Tevin Washington, etc who wants to play quarterback....

Paul Johnson was head coach at Georgia Tech for 11 years... 9 of those 11 years were Josh Nesbitt, Tevin Washington, and Justin Thomas... Who all did pretty extraordinary things. Nesbitt broke NCAA records... Tevin Washington is 1st or 2nd in 11 different stat categories at Georgia, set a school and ACC record with 20 rushing touchdowns and career rushing touchdowns with 38... Justin Thomas won a BCS Bowl and was MVP of the Orange Bowl, and is considered one of the better QB's to ever play at Georgia Tech..

Next up, and I truly believe this, was Tobias Oliver... TaQuon Marshall was a great athlete, but I wouldn't consider him a great option quarterback. But Oliver was going to be the next big thing at Georgia Tech. I think he was going to be a 1,000 yard rusher for the next 3 years.

Look at BB.... In the 11 years Paul Johnson was coach... you had Zach Laskey, Synjyn Days, Kirvonte Benson, Jordan Mason, Roddy Jones, etc. These guys aren't terribly difficult to find. That's why Georgia Tech always had them.

Just my two cents on recruiting... Will be interesting to see how the current staff does against the regional powers in recruiting "traditional" players. Can they get players that are just as good? Can they get players that are better?

Good post with interesting points.

I'll counter with this: Our best (re:rated) recruiting class in school history was by a non-Option coach in 2007. So we've shown it possible to attract elite talent on both sides of the ball (It's notable your post only dealt with the Offensive side of the ball). It may be easier to recruit to the Option scheme but I don't agree that we end up any better as a result of it.

There's a bit we could go into there but it ends up comparing and discussing current and former players and their abilities, which I don't think is appropriate but I do think is against the site's Rules!

 

[gthxxxx]

Good post with interesting points.

I'll counter with this: Our best (re:rated) recruiting class in school history was by a non-Option coach in 2007. So we've shown it possible to attract elite talent on both sides of the ball (It's notable your post only dealt with the Offensive side of the ball). It may be easier to recruit to the Option scheme but I don't agree that we end up any better as a result of it.

There's a bit we could go into there but it ends up comparing and discussing current and former players and their abilities, which I don't think is appropriate but I do think is against the site's Rules!

I gathered from past discussion that recruiting services 1) heavily rely on who the football factories are looking at to reduce their workload, and 2) rate recruits from the perspective of how well they would perform in the conventional position. If true, then those recruiting ratings would seem to be ill-fitted for the points that @year_of_the_swarm brings up.

 

[RickStromFan]

I gathered from past discussion that recruiting services 1) heavily rely on who the football factories are looking at to reduce their workload, and 2) rate recruits from the perspective of how well they would perform in the conventional position. If true, then those recruiting ratings would seem to be ill-fitted for the points that @year_of_the_swarm brings up.

so it's OK if CGC can't pull in good recruits? I'm betting the same fans who hate him right now will be relentless if he doesn't recruit well even as they excuse other coaches for that inability.

 

[gthxxxx]

I have a different take on this recruiting stuff, especially as it relates to the old regime.

Recruiting - Current

1. When you run the same system that everyone else runs, you have to have equal players to be as good, or better players to be better. Not that complicated.
2. How many players equal to the players in the area can Georgia Tech? That would be against Georgia, Alabama, Clemson, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Florida, Florida State, Central Florida, Miami, South Florida, North Carolina, NC State, etc. Those are the main competition in the region for top recruits.
3. How many elite players in the area can Georgia Tech get? That would be against Georgia, Alabama, Clemson, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi, Mississippi State, South Carolina, Florida, Florida State, Central Florida, Miami, South Florida, North Carolina, NC State, etc. Those are the main competition in the region for top recruits.

Recruiting - Option Regime

1. When you run a system that is designed to make up for size and talent disparities... you don't have to have equal players to be as good. You don't have to have better players to be better than the competition. You just have to run the scheme efficiently and it is proven to work. That is why Army, without a single player who could play for Oklahoma or Michigan, took those schools to overtime in the past year.
2. How many great athletes are out there that Georgia Tech can get that Alabama, Clemson, Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, Florida State, etc want to convert to safety or wide receiver, but want to play quarterback?
3. How many power backs are out there that want to play BB?
4. How many great athletes are out there that don't fit in traditional offenses, but would make excellent AB's?
5. How many under recruited wide receivers are out there that make excellent blockers or deep ball threats?

History tells me that is easier to recruit to the Option Regime than the Current Regime... There is always a Justin Thomas, a Tobias Oliver, a Josh Nesbitt, a Tevin Washington, etc who wants to play quarterback....

Paul Johnson was head coach at Georgia Tech for 11 years... 9 of those 11 years were Josh Nesbitt, Tevin Washington, and Justin Thomas... Who all did pretty extraordinary things. Nesbitt broke NCAA records... Tevin Washington is 1st or 2nd in 11 different stat categories at Georgia, set a school and ACC record with 20 rushing touchdowns and career rushing touchdowns with 38... Justin Thomas won a BCS Bowl and was MVP of the Orange Bowl, and is considered one of the better QB's to ever play at Georgia Tech..

Next up, and I truly believe this, was Tobias Oliver... TaQuon Marshall was a great athlete, but I wouldn't consider him a great option quarterback. But Oliver was going to be the next big thing at Georgia Tech. I think he was going to be a 1,000 yard rusher for the next 3 years.

Look at BB.... In the 11 years Paul Johnson was coach... you had Zach Laskey, Synjyn Days, Kirvonte Benson, Jordan Mason, Roddy Jones, etc. These guys aren't terribly difficult to find. That's why Georgia Tech always had them.

Just my two cents on recruiting... Will be interesting to see how the current staff does against the regional powers in recruiting "traditional" players. Can they get players that are just as good? Can they get players that are better?

Good post with interesting points.

I'll counter with this: Our best (re:rated) recruiting class in school history was by a non-Option coach in 2007. So we've shown it possible to attract elite talent on both sides of the ball (It's notable your post only dealt with the Offensive side of the ball). It may be easier to recruit to the Option scheme but I don't agree that we end up any better as a result of it.

There's a bit we could go into there but it ends up comparing and discussing current and former players and their abilities, which I don't think is appropriate but I do think is against the site's Rules!

I gathered from past discussion that recruiting services 1) heavily rely on who the football factories are looking at to reduce their workload, and 2) rate recruits from the perspective of how well they would perform in the conventional position. If true, then those recruiting ratings would seem to be ill-fitted for the points that @year_of_the_swarm brings up.

so it's OK if CGC can't pull in good recruits? I'm betting the same fans who hate him right now will be relentless if he doesn't recruit well even as they excuse other coaches for that inability.

Just re-posting above to make sure I'm following the conservation correctly. Based on OP's (@year_of_the_swarm) points, particularly #1 under "Recruiting - Current", it would not be OK from a W/L perspective if CGC can't pull in good recruits, but would be expected based off the subsequent points #2 and #3.

 

[RickStromFan]

Just re-posting above to make sure I'm following the conservation correctly. Based on OP's (@year_of_the_swarm) points, particularly #1 under "Recruiting - Current", it would not be OK from a W/L perspective if CGC can't pull in good recruits, but would be expected based off the subsequent points #2 and #3.

ultimately, we had almost identical records with 2 differing schemes of 2 different HCs (PJ, CG). We'll see if consistent better recruiting is possible and if so, what effect it will have on us. Gotta get the "if possible" part right first!

 

[Sidewalking]

Here's a tip back for you. I never said he was a good recruiter. You projected that and many other things into my post that you brought with you to the conversation. I said he would have been better than he was with more support. Better is a relative term.

I have an idea. Lets freeze any athletic funding and building improvements to remain static compared with the last 4 years of the last staff. Then we can more accurately compare the recruiting abilities of the last staff to the new one. It would certainly help determine any disparities between the two. And anyone who thinks that's a good idea should have their head examined.

Reduce funding of any staff and you should see a downward trend in results. Increase funding and you should see the opposite occur. I bet Collins isn't telling TStan he has all he needs to succeed at the highest level just as things are.