IF THE UNTHINKABLE HAPPENS

SteamWhistle

I just want a Bowl Game
Messages
4,230
Location
Rome, GA
I completely agree and disagree with you!
I think this position is probably pretty popular among today’s college football fans. Before BCS or maybe even the playoff, they don’t care. In that since, I agree.
I’m not sure what segregation has to do with anything.... aside from the fact that when civil rights movement was at the forefront and desegregation was beginning, it was about the same time where people started going to college TO play football as opposed to going to college AND ALSO playing football. Prior to ‘50s / ‘60s there was a lot of talent (white and black) who didn’t see the college game because college wasn’t in the cards and football didn’t pay.
If you really want to talk about a “modern era” of college football, I’d say your mark is the late 60s or early 70s when college football started to draw kids into colleges primarily to play football.
At any rate, I still think it’s incredibly short sighted to put a line in the sand with the BCS. Why discount what teams like Michigan, Notre Dame, USC or even Princeton or Yale achieved just because they haven’t done it in the last 20 years?
I’m just trying to give an example of what people my age and younger think. Mentioning pre-Segregation was just an example to show how long it’s been.
 

augustabuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,323
I'd argue, a title that is now over 100 years old, being used as smack talk is overplayed. That makes us look desperate having to go back that far.

Just my opinion though. I loved rubbing 1990 in their faces for the last 4 decades
Age is not the question as UGA has a legitimate claim to 1942. The question is who recognizes the claim. Tech was named no.1 in 9 different years and recognizes only four.
 

Heisman's Ghost

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,428
Location
Albany Georgia
Age is not the question as UGA has a legitimate claim to 1942. The question is who recognizes the claim. Tech was named no.1 in 9 different years and recognizes only four.
Alabama maintains to this day that they were robbed in 1966 of a national championship by Notre Dame and Michigan State. There was even a book about it entitled "The Missing Ring". As for Tech, my only beef is that the 1952 team with 6 All Americans and an unbeaten team was not given their due even though at least one wire service did name them number one. IIWII
 

augustabuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,323
Alabama maintains to this day that they were robbed in 1966 of a national championship by Notre Dame and Michigan State. There was even a book about it entitled "The Missing Ring". As for Tech, my only beef is that the 1952 team with 6 All Americans and an unbeaten team was not given their due even though at least one wire service did name them number one. IIWII
Alabama's assertion in 1966 holds water. UA had many big wins including a 30+ point win against Nebraska in the Sugar Bowl. ND's claim to fame was a 10-10 tie with Michigan State. 1952 Tech was proclaimed no.1 by many polls. Tech was 12-0 (8-0 sec champs), and MSU was 9-0 Midwest independent who lived at the bakery most of the year. They were also on probation. MSU's closest win was won on a last second FG against one win Oregon. Tech's closest win was against top 10 Alabama, 7-3. ( UF was also close 17-14.)
 

4shotB

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
3,563
Exactly. Alabama claims 18, 12 of which are referred to as “mythical” by most sports writers. But Alabama’s PR department claims anything they can.
In the "everyone gets a trophy" category, some schools like UCF don't even need the approval of an outside party to proclaim themselves national champs! Let's borrow from that and proclaim ourselves the '21 national champs. I would love to get THAT tee-shirt!!
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,665
Alabama's assertion in 1966 holds water. UA had many big wins including a 30+ point win against Nebraska in the Sugar Bowl. ND's claim to fame was a 10-10 tie with Michigan State. 1952 Tech was proclaimed no.1 by many polls. Tech was 12-0 (8-0 sec champs), and MSU was 9-0 Midwest independent who lived at the bakery most of the year. They were also on probation. MSU's closest win was won on a last second FG against one win Oregon. Tech's closest win was against top 10 Alabama, 7-3. ( UF was also close 17-14.)
I saw those teams play and Alabama was not in the same league with Notre Dame and Michigan State in 1966. They were great for a Southern team but not as good as many northern teams at the time, southern regional chauvinism aside.

Michigan State also claims a natty in 1966, more deservedly. Their team was loaded with all conference players, future hall of famers and future NFL stars. Alabama was limited by the color barrier and many of the best players in the south went north. I think MSU had 12 Black players from the south. The team was not only fast but big for its day. The OL and DL averaged 251 lbs a man. By contrast Alabama averaged 201 lbs.

It was an interesting time in which most coaches across the nation had warm relations and helped each other. Bear Bryant would contact his coaching friends up north whenever he heard about a Black prospect in the south. Coaches at Clemson, Tennessee and Oklahoma did the same. The north dominated college football during those years.

Bryant got his friend John McCay at Southern Cal to bring his integrated team to Birmingham in 1970 to break the color barrier. When USC won by 3 touchdowns (it wasn’t that close because starters for USC were gone by second half) Bear was able to go to the President of Alabama and convince him that it was time to integrate the team.
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,586
I saw those teams play and Alabama was not in the same league with Notre Dame and Michigan State in 1966. They were great for a Southern team but not as good as many northern teams at the time, southern regional chauvinism aside.

Michigan State also claims a natty in 1966, more deservedly. Their team was loaded with all conference players, future hall of famers and future NFL stars. Alabama was limited by the color barrier and many of the best players in the south went north. I think MSU had 12 Black players from the south. The team was not only fast but big for its day. The OL and DL averaged 251 lbs a man. By contrast Alabama averaged 201 lbs.

It was an interesting time in which most coaches across the nation had warm relations and helped each other. Bear Bryant would contact his coaching friends up north whenever he heard about a Black prospect in the south. Coaches at Clemson, Tennessee and Oklahoma did the same. The north dominated college football during those years.

Bryant got his friend John McCay at Southern Cal to bring his integrated team to Birmingham in 1970 to break the color barrier. When USC won by 3 touchdowns (it wasn’t that close because starters for USC were gone by second half) Bear was able to go to the President of Alabama and convince him that it was time to integrate the team.
Started recruiting black players and went to the wishbone. Not afraid to make a change when he realized what he had been doing wasn't working that well anymore. Won three more national championships after that. I was in HS in Nashville in early 60's and bear recruited a top RB from there. The kid played guard at Bama probably 200 lbs at most.
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,665
Started recruiting black players and went to the wishbone. Not afraid to make a change when he realized what he had been doing wasn't working that well anymore. Won three more national championships after that. I was in HS in Nashville in early 60's and bear recruited a top RB from there. The kid played guard at Bama probably 200 lbs at most.
Yep.

Cecil Dowdy was a great All American guard and tackle who played for Alabama at around 195 lbs. I loved following him but we never got to see how he would have done going against the Big 10 teams at the time or Notre Dame or Southern Cal.
 

augustabuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,323
I saw those teams play and Alabama was not in the same league with Notre Dame and Michigan State in 1966. They were great for a Southern team but not as good as many northern teams at the time, southern regional chauvinism aside.

Michigan State also claims a natty in 1966, more deservedly. Their team was loaded with all conference players, future hall of famers and future NFL stars. Alabama was limited by the color barrier and many of the best players in the south went north. I think MSU had 12 Black players from the south. The team was not only fast but big for its day. The OL and DL averaged 251 lbs a man. By contrast Alabama averaged 201 lbs.

It was an interesting time in which most coaches across the nation had warm relations and helped each other. Bear Bryant would contact his coaching friends up north whenever he heard about a Black prospect in the south. Coaches at Clemson, Tennessee and Oklahoma did the same. The north dominated college football during those years.

Bryant got his friend John McCay at Southern Cal to bring his integrated team to Birmingham in 1970 to break the color barrier. When USC won by 3 touchdowns (it wasn’t that close because starters for USC were gone by second half) Bear was able to go to the President of Alabama and convince him that it was time to integrate the team.
I watched that 1966 ND-MSU game also and watched ND's qb Terry Hanratty who as usual being the best player in the Midwest was hyped into the Heisman Award. Meanwhile, Bama had Snake Stabler at QB, who was a far superior QB to Hanratty which was later confirmed by the NFL. And you're right that ND and MSU had typical Midwest lines, big and slow, just like Nebraska. The Northern bias dominated game because they couldn't win on the field.
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,665
I watched that 1966 ND-MSU game also and watched ND's qb Terry Hanratty who as usual being the best player in the Midwest was hyped into the Heisman Award. Meanwhile, Bama had Snake Stabler at QB, who was a far superior QB to Hanratty which was later confirmed by the NFL. And you're right that ND and MSU had typical Midwest lines, big and slow, just like Nebraska. The Northern bias dominated game because they couldn't win on the field.
I was a huge Snake Stabler fan but he got better in later years. Michigan State and Notre Dame were not slow like Nebraska. That’s silly talk. Bubba Smith was the number 1 pick in the NFL and proved his size and speed for years after that. That was a dominant defensive line that would have kept Stabler unsettled all game, much like Oklahoma would do a few years later to Heisman trophy winner Pat Sullivan at Auburn.

I shared your southern bias in my youth but I realize now that was my regional pride blocking out reason. That Michigan State team helped usher in the modern era of football. Bear Bryant admitted as much. Years later Alabama would play Notre Dame in a televised night game for all the marbles. In an on field interview before the game Bear said, “This is the most important game for southern football in history. Alabama ran a gimmick play late in the game to keep it close but, alas, Notre Dame won. I hated Notre Dame and was stricken by the loss but the game was considered the best in college football since Notre Dame and Michigan State. It helped usher southern football into the modern era and the rest is history.
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,665
I watched that 1966 ND-MSU game also and watched ND's qb Terry Hanratty who as usual being the best player in the Midwest was hyped into the Heisman Award. Meanwhile, Bama had Snake Stabler at QB, who was a far superior QB to Hanratty which was later confirmed by the NFL. And you're right that ND and MSU had typical Midwest lines, big and slow, just like Nebraska. The Northern bias dominated game because they couldn't win on the field.
Forgot to mention that Hanratty never won the Heisman. So there was no “midwest” hyping. Steve Spurior from Florida actually won.
 

Heisman's Ghost

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,428
Location
Albany Georgia
I saw those teams play and Alabama was not in the same league with Notre Dame and Michigan State in 1966. They were great for a Southern team but not as good as many northern teams at the time, southern regional chauvinism aside.

Michigan State also claims a natty in 1966, more deservedly. Their team was loaded with all conference players, future hall of famers and future NFL stars. Alabama was limited by the color barrier and many of the best players in the south went north. I think MSU had 12 Black players from the south. The team was not only fast but big for its day. The OL and DL averaged 251 lbs a man. By contrast Alabama averaged 201 lbs.

It was an interesting time in which most coaches across the nation had warm relations and helped each other. Bear Bryant would contact his coaching friends up north whenever he heard about a Black prospect in the south. Coaches at Clemson, Tennessee and Oklahoma did the same. The north dominated college football during those years.

Bryant got his friend John McCay at Southern Cal to bring his integrated team to Birmingham in 1970 to break the color barrier. When USC won by 3 touchdowns (it wasn’t that close because starters for USC were gone by second half) Bear was able to go to the President of Alabama and convince him that it was time to integrate the team.
Disagree. Alabama would have whipped either one of them. That team was loaded with speed.
 

augustabuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,323
Forgot to mention that Hanratty never won the Heisman. So there was no “midwest” hyping. Steve Spurior from Florida actually won.
Thanks. I got confused. I must've been thinking about Woodson winning over Peyton Manning and Dane winning over Joe Hamilton. Also. ND's one win team producing Hornung over Johnny Majors. Hornung later recalled a chance meeting with Majors in an airport. He said as they were departing that he asked Majors, "Who should've won the Heisman in '56? With no hesitation Majors answered, 'Jim Browm' ". They laughed in agreement and went their own ways.
 

augustabuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,323
It was hyperbole but seriously, look up how many they claim and in what years. I was shocked. More than half are because some wire service poll no one has ever heard of claimed they were number one.
I know UA won 6 under Bear and you can add one for Stallings and however many for Saban. And I know they won some before Bear. How many Rose Bowls did Bama win when that game was labeled as the best in the East vs the best in the West?
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,665
Disagree. Alabama would have whipped either one of them. That team was loaded with speed.
Ordinarily I think you have to separate college careers from pro careers because they are two different games and many times the best college players have been flops in the pros but, having said that, out of the first 8 players drafted in 1967, half played for Michigan State including the number one pick. I don’t think this was a team easily whipped.
 
Top