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Here's a copy of the incriminating FISA memo that's just been released

Discussion in 'The Swarm Lounge' started by MikeJackets1967, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. MikeJackets1967

    MikeJackets1967 Helluva Engineer

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  2. UgaBlows

    UgaBlows Helluva Engineer

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    So trump had an actual Russian agent working for his campaign, holy sh!t!
     
  3. MikeJackets1967

    MikeJackets1967 Helluva Engineer

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    The FBI was weaponized by Obama and Hillary to spy on Donald Trump and they used the discredited dirty dossier. This is going to bring down a lot of people. I agree with Flounder that Page wasn't a Russian agent.
     
    GT_05 likes this.
  4. flounder

    flounder Helluva Engineer

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    I don't think Page is an actual Russian agent. He's just an idiot who was trying to make himself look good to a bunch of Russian agents. I don't see what the issue is with keeping him under surveillance is, though. Even if he wasn't passing information on purpose, his Russian affiliations were a huge security risk.
     
    MikeJackets1967 likes this.
  5. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    A few thoughts:
    1) It is truly sad and scandalous that the FBI used uncorroborated opposition research to LIE and get a secret FISA surveillance warrant on an opposing political campaign. I just can't overstate how awful that is.
    2) I am equally surprised in the opposite direction that the entire text of this supposedly huge news only discusses an abuse of 1 single volunteer on Trump's campaign. I'm assuming if more people were surveilled, it would have been referenced in this letter.
    3) This just shows how awful and politicized the top of the FBI and DOJ are/were. They should all be purged. I think we need to relook at who leads those organizations and take it out of Presidential appointments. I am just saying this off the cuff without thought of any downsides of that, but this should never happen again. And if there were ever a bully in the White House whom people would be scared of that might do this, its Trump now.
     
    MikeJackets1967 likes this.
  6. MikeJackets1967

    MikeJackets1967 Helluva Engineer

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    I think FBI Director Wray will wind up resigning over this
     
  7. flounder

    flounder Helluva Engineer

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    Carter Page met on multiple occasions with men who were later arrested as Russian agents. During the investigation, these Russian agents spoke on the phone about trying to recruit him as an agent. He later travels to Russia to give a speech about great Putin is. That seems like probable cause for a warrant to me.
     
  8. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    I mean, this is just amazingly sad it could happen in this day and age. If the FBI and DOJ had gone to the FISA court and openly said that the information came from opposition research from the DNC, paid to people that were anti-Trump, but they had done work and independently corroborated A, B, C, and D, then it might not be that bad. But to intentionally and actively hide key pieces of information to secretly surveil someone in the opposing political campaign is just completely garbage. Even Bernie Sanders the other day said that this is why he and many others are against stuff like the Patriot Act, because they can be so easily abused.
     
    MikeJackets1967 likes this.
  9. MikeJackets1967

    MikeJackets1967 Helluva Engineer

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    I think the FBI and DOJ has been corrupt since the 1960s and this is the first attempt to expose their corruption. A lot of heads are going to roll over this.
     
    Tech93 likes this.
  10. flounder

    flounder Helluva Engineer

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    Well, we don't know for sure if they concealed the source because we haven't been able to see the FISA warrant request. However, the above information about Page and the (as of yet unknown) information they had about Papadopoulos was probably enough on it's own for a warrant.
     
  11. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    This sounds so evil, but the truth is the insinuations here are bull****.

    Carter Page worked for I think Merrill Lynch in Russia for several years. Those firms do business all around the world in finance transactions - loaning money, mergers and acquisitions, etc. In countries like Russia, executives at those companies are frequently government people and worse.

    There is literally no proof anywhere at all - ZERO - that he ever did anything illegal, supplied anything classified or illegal, openly discussed becoming an agent for Russia - NOTHING. I'm glad you're not in the FBI or DOJ.
     
  12. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    Yes we do know, LOLOLOLOL because the committee investigated it and reviewed all the FISA requests and documentation. That's the whole point of this document.
     
    MikeJackets1967 likes this.
  13. MikeJackets1967

    MikeJackets1967 Helluva Engineer

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    I think this is bigger than Watergate in it's scope using Government Intelligence Agencies to spy on private individuals.
     
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  14. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    Separately, but part of the same theme, Government Intelligence Agencies also conspired to shut down investigations on people that vote the same way as they do.
     
    MikeJackets1967 likes this.
  15. MikeJackets1967

    MikeJackets1967 Helluva Engineer

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    Amen,i agree completely(y)
     
  16. RonJohn

    RonJohn Helluva Engineer

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    So the only thing I saw in the document that would have been classified is that they obtained FISA warrants on a couple of Trump workers. That was already speculated/reported by just about everyone. According to the document the FBI had no evidence to support the warrant. According to Dems and the FBI, the document leaves out a lot of additional information that the Dems reportedly tried to get included. Other than official confirmation that FISA warrants were issued, I don't see anything different than the inane arguments that have been going on between Republicans and Democrats about this. I don't see any new information.
     
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  17. flounder

    flounder Helluva Engineer

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    Only if you believe Nunes. Why don't they release the FISA warrant request so we can see for ourselves?
     
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  18. collegeballfan

    collegeballfan Helluva Engineer

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    Mike I can find nothing that discredits the Steele dossier. Been looking for months. I find where different folks trash it but I find nothing that point by point discredits the contents of the Steele dossier.
    I know that 3 House and 3 Senate committees have each had the dossier for a year and they have yet to issue a finding that point by point refutes the dossier. On the flip side I find nothing that point by point says the report is correct. If you got something post it for me. Thanks.

    The FBI and Carter Page are old friends. The FBI file on Carter Page dates to 2013 when he had meetings/conversations with a suspected Russian spy who was under FBI investigation. (Info in filings in federal court.)

    None of us have any idea what the FISA judge used as the deciding factor in granting the warrant. I would suspect the FBI record and the federal court filings on Page. I mean the FBI is asking for a warrant on a guy who had previously met with Russian spies. Sounds like a no brainer. This is probably one of those we will never know items unless the judge talks.

    I find it strange that all the grumblings about the Nunes memo from the administration involve people President Trump personally nominated to their current position. He is calling a "cover up" by people he personally appointed. Why don't he just clean house? Say fire the top 400 - 500 people in the Justice Dept and FBI. Drain the swamp so to speak.
     
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  19. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    You can find nothing that discredits the dossier? I think you're thinking about this wrong. Prove to me God exists. How do you disprove that Trump and a bunch of hookers didn't pee all over the bed Obama slept in? I mean, if it for real didn't happen, then how do you prove it didn't happen? If someone is going to make crazy allegations like that, they need to show proof - surely someone was taking selfies or there are email communications or something between the people who were there. But there's nothing.

    There are people around the world that meet with spies from other countries all the time. The vast majority of the time they have no idea that those people are spies. So unless our person is actively discussing joining the spy or doing something illegal, you don't wiretap their DOMESTIC communications. And if its someone in the opposing political campaign, you darn well better dot your i's and cross your t's. And they did not. They left out all sorts of key information. So you're right, maybe if they had included all that it wouldn't have mattered and the judge would have still approved the FISA warrant. But we'll never know. You just don't go start surveilling the opposing campaign when you have literally zero proof of any illegal or spy activity.
     
  20. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    Another thought - I am just a small random technology joe. I worked for a cybersecurity company before that did business in Ukraine. I was once at a dinner in the Ukranian Embassy on the edge of DC. I met all kinds of Ukranian government and technology people. I can all but guarantee you I met with and spoke with spies. I mean, I think the number of our people that have done something like that probably numbers in the 1000s every year. If you want to tap any conversations I have with people over there, go for it. But to tap all my domestic conversations?
     
    Whiskey_Clear likes this.

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