Fourth and Goal - what went wrong?

LongforDodd

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Here is a three minute Youtube clip of our last four downs at Clemson's goal line. Fast forward please to the overhead camera that replays the fourth down at about the 1 min mark. I'm wanting to know how our pulling guard should have blocked this or if their LB just made a great play. Should our G have sealed off the inside so that our TE could make it to the outside should our G have kicked the LB out so that our TE could have back inside. Should our G have just stood up the LB. Or, again, did their LB just make a super play by cutting back inside as he did and as quickly as he did? I kinda' think our G was indecisive and the LB made a great instinctive play. Granted, with bullets flying I guess decisions like what our G had were difficult to make.

 

Fatmike91

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Haven’t we already beaten this dead horse?

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BCJacket

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I'm not an X&Os expert. But, to me, the LB made a very good and disciplined play to see where the ball goes. He also made a very athletic move to plant his foot and move back in the hole the TE was going in. If the LB kept following the momentum of the play for a 1/4 second longer. The guard would've blocked him dead on.

As it was, the guard overran the block by half a step and the LB gets inside to close the gap. The G has his eyes on the right defender. He just got juked.
 

GT_05

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I wish I knew what the OL assignments were but surely somebody was supposed to look for Skalski.

I’m not a big fan of this play because it takes a little while to develop and you can’t give Clemson time to adjust. I’m old school and I always think of getting your biggest O-linemen to drive low and give your back a chance to get through or over the top. It would’ve been cool to hand our biggest lineman the ball and give them a Refrigerator Perry type play. 😎

Anyway, hindsight is 20/20 and I think the team and coaches did a great job.
 

GCdaJuiceMan

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Here is a three minute Youtube clip of our last four downs at Clemson's goal line. Fast forward please to the overhead camera that replays the fourth down at about the 1 min mark. I'm wanting to know how our pulling guard should have blocked this or if their LB just made a great play. Should our G have sealed off the inside so that our TE could make it to the outside should our G have kicked the LB out so that our TE could have back inside. Should our G have just stood up the LB. Or, again, did their LB just make a super play by cutting back inside as he did and as quickly as he did? I kinda' think our G was indecisive and the LB made a great instinctive play. Granted, with bullets flying I guess decisions like what our G had were difficult to make.

A couple of things. I understand its easy to say these things afterwards*

1. Play 1. I would have liked to see Jordan throw that ball to Dylan(83) who had a significant size advantage on the CB(31) covering him.
2. On the shovel, I really would have liked to have seen Mason 1 on 1 vs clemson LB #0 (some who follow recruiting will remember) Barret Carter. Think Mason is just as fast if not faster than carter and would have had the momentum to bowl over him or beat him to the corner.
 

Northeast Stinger

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I appreciate the other observations here and am not offering a refutation but a gut reaction. The linebacker looks to me like he is cheating/leaning inside the whole play. Had there been a wide pitch the only way he would have caught up to the play is if a cornerback slowed the play down and cut off the outside, which I am fairly confident would have happened given our difficulty running wide. No, he looks to me like he is “sniffing” for something inside from the beginning.

The other thing I question is what would have happened if he had been taken out of the play? Would the other linemen have been able to hold their blocks long enough? The play looks like it is breaking down almost from the beginning but I realize that may just be a function of slow motion viewing.
 

GTHomer

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I’m old school and I always think of getting your biggest O-linemen to drive low and give your back a chance to get through or over the top. It would’ve been cool to hand our biggest lineman the ball and give them a Refrigerator Perry type play. 😎
I'm with you on this. In hindsight, I would like to see the QB under center with either an I or Power I formation in the backfield then run a dive play behind our best guard. There is something to be said about have the QB under center for goal line plays.
 

Skeptic

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I'm not an X&Os expert. But, to me, the LB made a very good and disciplined play to see where the ball goes. He also made a very athletic move to plant his foot and move back in the hole the TE was going in. If the LB kept following the momentum of the play for a 1/4 second longer. The guard would've blocked him dead on.

As it was, the guard overran the block by half a step and the LB gets inside to close the gap. The G has his eyes on the right defender. He just got juked.
Skalski explained it at a Sunday presser. If I get it right it is the result of a very good linebacker in his 6th year (including redshirt) diagnosing the tight end's separation from the WR and beginning to drag into the LOS. He said it is not something GT does and when he saw it on the backend he knew something was going on. Sometimes you throw up your hands and recognize a great individual play. We shouldn't be insulted. Clemson did the same thing to Alabama in one of the NC championship games, from the nine-yard line I think, then used it themselves to score. It is a good play. Sometimes good plays don't work.
 

FlatsLander

Jolly Good Fellow
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428
A couple of things. I understand its easy to say these things afterwards*

1. Play 1. I would have liked to see Jordan throw that ball to Dylan(83) who had a significant size advantage on the CB(31) covering him.
2. On the shovel, I really would have liked to have seen Mason 1 on 1 vs clemson LB #0 (some who follow recruiting will remember) Barret Carter. Think Mason is just as fast if not faster than carter and would have had the momentum to bowl over him or beat him to the corner.
If 0 was the only guy left between Yates and Mason, then Yates could have forced 0 to commit and then played off of him. I think this was a called shovel the whole way, though. 47 definitely just made a great play watching Yates and reacting faster than we probably planned for. Our G looked like he expected 47 to be a bit wider and flowing towards the option pitch look. Instead 47 takes the quick cut inside once the ball leaves Yates's hands and beats the block.
 

Lotta Juice

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If 0 was the only guy left between Yates and Mason, then Yates could have forced 0 to commit and then played off of him. I think this was a called shovel the whole way, though. 47 definitely just made a great play watching Yates and reacting faster than we probably planned for. Our G looked like he expected 47 to be a bit wider and flowing towards the option pitch look. Instead 47 takes the quick cut inside once the ball leaves Yates's hands and beats the block.

Yates had a defender right in his face in addition to number 0 for Clemson marking Mason. IF the pulling guard makes that block (dashed yellow line) we would have the man advantage so that DD (green) walks in untouched.

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In hindsight it would be interesting to see whether Mason could've beat his man one on one though he would be getting the ball pretty deep so a lot could've happened during that play development. Maybe Skalski sniffs that out too. Who knows
 

jandrews

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258
A couple of things. I understand its easy to say these things afterwards*

1. Play 1. I would have liked to see Jordan throw that ball to Dylan(83) who had a significant size advantage on the CB(31) covering him.
2. On the shovel, I really would have liked to have seen Mason 1 on 1 vs clemson LB #0 (some who follow recruiting will remember) Barret Carter. Think Mason is just as fast if not faster than carter and would have had the momentum to bowl over him or beat him to the corner.
On play 1, it was a pick play it should of gone to 83. Yates was a little late. Ball should of been out right after the pick was done.
 

85Escape

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775
I wish I knew what the OL assignments were but surely somebody was supposed to look for Skalski.

I’m not a big fan of this play because it takes a little while to develop and you can’t give Clemson time to adjust. I’m old school and I always think of getting your biggest O-linemen to drive low and give your back a chance to get through or over the top. It would’ve been cool to hand our biggest lineman the ball and give them a Refrigerator Perry type play. 😎

Anyway, hindsight is 20/20 and I think the team and coaches did a great job.

The "Biggers Goes Bigger" play. I like it!
 

85Escape

Ramblin' Wreck
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775
Looks like the pulling Guard took a half-step outside towards "0" before remembering the assignment...he looks outside as 0 crashes and then belated turns back into the line. If it was an option play then that makes sense. If it was a shovel the whole way (which I suspect) then he just made a super slight mis-step that might have been the difference. No way to know. I certainly don't want to throw anyone under the bus...it was a half-step outside that happened in the blink of an eye.

And man, look at the Clemson D at the moment of the pass. It was very well played on their part. The backside is completely closed off, everyone is keeping their lanes and their speed had them pressuring us early.
 

malak05

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
136
On play 1, it was a pick play it should of gone to 83. Yates was a little late. Ball should of been out right after the pick was done.
Yeah was a small window to float that ball up and to the outside shoulder of TE stretch outward away from defender
 

LongforDodd

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Haven’t we already beaten this dead horse?

View attachment 11246

Haven’t we already beaten this dead horse?

View attachment 11246

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Obviously......that play has been discussed around here since Saturday and obviously to the degree that any further discussions ruffles some feathers but I haven't seen anything that actually answers the specific answers I asked. Escuse me please if I missed those particular discussions.

Thanks anyway.
 

alagold

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Huntsville,Al
Skalski explained it at a Sunday presser. If I get it right it is the result of a very good linebacker in his 6th year (including redshirt) diagnosing the tight end's separation from the WR and beginning to drag into the LOS. He said it is not something GT does and when he saw it on the backend he knew something was going on. Sometimes you throw up your hands and recognize a great individual play. We shouldn't be insulted. Clemson did the same thing to Alabama in one of the NC championship games, from the nine-yard line I think, then used it themselves to score. It is a good play. Sometimes good plays don't work.
I would like to know how IF and many times we ran it in-practice vs the FIRST team defense. Very strange that we run a play for our slowest offensive player with our (statistically, see the other discussion on Swarm) our worst Off lineman making the key block. -- It didn't work in maybe the most important moment of the season,so these questions can be asked.
 
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