FLEXBONE

IronJacket7

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,393
I just wanted to get this off my mind...

Despite our current record and floating opinions, I still love our offense. Both the Flexbone and Pistol sets. I will forever be thankful that CPJ brought this to GT.

That being said...

1-Our offense is dangerous when "executed" correctly.

2-CPJ play calling has befuddled me for the last 2 seasons.

3-The athletes it is going to take to put our offense on the next level to win a BCS Title, "may" never come here.

4-CPJ and his offense are perfect for GT and yet it presents negatives in both offense and defense recruiting and negatives in public eye and media. Its an ironic tragedy imo.
 

bat_082994

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
986
Location
Athens, GA
I just wanted to get this off my mind...

Despite our current record and floating opinions, I still love our offense. Both the Flexbone and Pistol sets. I will forever be thankful that CPJ brought this to GT.

That being said...

1-Our offense is dangerous when "executed" correctly.

2-CPJ play calling has befuddled me for the last 2 seasons.

3-The athletes it is going to take to put our offense on the next level to win a BCS Title, "may" never come here.

4-CPJ and his offense are perfect for GT and yet it presents negatives in both offense and defense recruiting and negatives in public eye and media. Its an ironic tragedy imo.
Number 4 basically sums up CPJ's tenure at GT. that "ironic tragedy"
 

John

Peacekeeper
Staff member
Messages
2,192
#5 - I'm adding this one. :) Whatever happened to those A-back crossing routes and dump off passes that Tevin was decent with last year? Remember that go-ahead TD pass to Deon Hill against VT last year in the fourth quarter? It seemed like it was our go-to "3rd-and-too-long-to-run" play. Vad is doing the same thing that Tevin did when he was younger; get the snap then stare down a wide receiver and wait/hope that the WR will get open. There are no progressions even in the rare times Vad actually has time in the pocket.
 

Leonard Larramore

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
213
#5 - I'm adding this one. :) Whatever happened to those A-back crossing routes and dump off passes that Tevin was decent with last year? Remember that go-ahead TD pass to Deon Hill against VT last year in the fourth quarter? It seemed like it was our go-to "3rd-and-too-long-to-run" play. Vad is doing the same thing that Tevin did when he was younger; get the snap then stare down a wide receiver and wait/hope that the WR will get open. There are no progressions even in the rare times Vad actually has time in the pocket.
I agree with you. We need a short yard passing game. Something that develops a little quicker. I think Vad is only doing what he is taught. Vad does it and so does Justin. They wait until the primary receiver runs his route and then try to force a throw. Can every quarterback have the same issues or could it be the training? Just a question.
 

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
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TW did start to "read his progressions" when he had time.

VL seems to make up his mind at the line of scrimmage or before lining up as was brough up yesterday on the 4th and 7 play were he threw the interception a nd never looked at the open receiver to his left.
 

johncu

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
209
+1 to the OP.

I think the formation and playcalling is still very good and obviously works extremely well, but without a talented team that is able to execute it and fully buys into it, it doesn't work (just like any other system).

IMO PJ has through the end of next year to either adapt or move on. I'm not one of those idiots who thinks he should overhaul his entire system, but we have to expand what we can do, both for recruiting and so that we can change courses in game if we need to.
 

johncu

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
209
TW did start to "read his progressions" when he had time.

VL seems to make up his mind at the line of scrimmage or before lining up as was brough up yesterday on the 4th and 7 play were he threw the interception a nd never looked at the open receiver to his left.

Exactly. We are doing way too much of that as a team. That's not a playcalling mistake - there was a clearly open receiver, as there often is. Vad was just freaked out and made a poor throw without reading the D. In his defense, he had almost zero time to throw basically every time he dropped back. Hard to function that way.

Still doesn't absolve PJ at all, though. He is ultimately responsible for recruiting and coaching players to his system, so if they fail to do it then it falls on him. Still, it does leave room for hope that the players will improve with experience. I think we can all agree that the senior and RS senior classes are pretty awful for us offensively. That has really handicapped us over the last couple years, especially against very good teams.
 

awbuzz

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Marietta, GA
+1 to the OP.

I think the formation and playcalling is still very good and obviously works extremely well, but without a talented team that is able to execute it and fully buys into it, it doesn't work (just like any other system).


IMO PJ has through the end of next year to either adapt or move on. I'm not one of those idiots who thinks he should overhaul his entire system, but we have to expand what we can do, both for recruiting and so that we can change courses in game if we need to.

+1
 

awbuzz

Helluva Manager
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Marietta, GA
Exactly. We are doing way too much of that as a team. That's not a playcalling mistake - there was a clearly open receiver, as there often is. Vad was just freaked out and made a poor throw without reading the D. In his defense, he had almost zero time to throw basically every time he dropped back. Hard to function that way.

Still doesn't absolve PJ at all, though. He is ultimately responsible for recruiting and coaching players to his system, so if they fail to do it then it falls on him. Still, it does leave room for hope that the players will improve with experience. I think we can all agree that the senior and RS senior classes are pretty awful for us offensively. That has really handicapped us over the last couple years, especially against very good teams.

True... kind of scary when one of your "best"/star seniors was a preferred walkon (credit gthe coaching staff for extending the offer).
 

Dustman

Helluva Engineer
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1,163
It's unfortunate that a nice run from Perkins gets lost in this crap storm. The offense came out just like I thought they would for this game after the VT disaster. We went for the jugular after turnovers and should have stuck with what was working
 

GTonTop88

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Gibson, GA
One thing I have learned over the past couple of weeks, TW was a lot better than I thought. Vad has a much higher ceiling, but I think Tevin woulda won us the Miami game. This offense needs an executor first, then athlete second. I wanted Vad in all year last year. Tevin wasn't a threat with his arm and not much with his legs, but he could run the option to perfection and didn't turn the ball over. Vad has had a couple of costly fumbles and ints. He is losing confidence in hisself, we need to give him some easier throws to complete. Not 40 yard bombs on 1st down and passes on 3rd and long. Low completion rate on both of those for anybody.
 

IronJacket7

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Messages
2,393
Personally, I thought Vad did a great job with the majority of his reads Saturday at Miami. Especially in comparison to other games. And, imo we had the game in hand when it was 17-7 and we were driving. When Vad fumbled the momentum swing dictated the remainder of that game, imo. Vad is a special and rare talent. He just needs to take more time critiquing the intricacies of this offense and becoming more comfortable in that. I think this season is becoming a case of on the job training for him and once he fully grasps this offense we are going to hit a streak of wins imo.
 

ToddM

Guest
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Locust Grove Ga
I know the detractors will say its bull but CPJ explained what's happening in our passing game, on his radio show Monday.

I can't quote him so he essentially said that Vad is panicking and just heaving the ball down field. If someone can help me, I believe the topic at that point was pass protection. Coach was talking about how the backs aren't picking up the blitz and or the line is missing blocks. He pointed out that on one particular play Vad did not read the hot route, on a blitz, which would have been good for 7-8 yards, and instead threw it deep to a covered guy.

The point I am making is that we really have no idea where the ball is suppose to go on any given play. When plays break down young QBs don't make their reads, they sling it or take off running.
 

OldJacketFan

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As physically gifted as Vad is he's still a young, learning QB. It is still funny to me how many folks that do not grasp how hard this offense is to learn and run. I know some state "well it's only 6 running plays and and 2, maybe 3 passing plays" which ignores the reality of the offense. If you really, really believe this is a simple, high school offense nothing I can say or suggest is going to make one bit of difference in your opinion. But if you really want to learn what the offense is capable of take a little time and do the research. It's all out there for you to find, you might find out just how diversifies and flexible the offense truly it. The timing, the ball handling, the reads in the run/pass game that exist in this offense when it's run to it's full measure are as complex, if not more, than any other offensive scheme. Historically CPJ has had a jr QB with time in the system to run it for two years. Realistically Vad is just beginning his 2nd year in the offense despite being a RS sophomore and he's having some growing pains. There are times that he is also not getting a lot of help from his O line as well. When you combine the two it truly impacts how efficient the offense is. I love the offensive scheme and look forward to Vad growing as a QB in it.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
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12,981
There are complexities in the offense that ask more than HS, but I don't think it's as complex as all that. CPJ says simplify too much for that to be the issue.
 

GTonTop88

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Nesbitt and company had 1/2 year to learn it and went 9-3 beating Clemson, fla st, Miami, Uga. I know we had a better defense then, but we averaged 34.5 points a game against those 4. Then went 11-2 the next year. Nesbitt wasn't a very effective passer and he did turn the ball over some, but he had that X factor when it came down to making a play. Vad should atleast be running the offense as good as Nesbitt did his first year.
 

poodleface

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
208
Location
Atlanta, GA
After finally getting a chance to look at the Miami game via this link, the execution of the option was night and day better.
Nesbitt and company had 1/2 year to learn it and went 9-3 beating Clemson, fla st, Miami, Uga. I know we had a better defense then, but we averaged 34.5 points a game against those 4.

How much of this was ACC defenses not knowing how to scheme against the triple option, I wonder... I'm not doubting the talent that was around, but surely that contributed to some degree.
 

GTonTop88

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After finally getting a chance to look at the Miami game via this link, the execution of the option was night and day better.


How much of this was ACC defenses not knowing how to scheme against the triple option, I wonder... I'm not doubting the talent that was around, but surely that contributed to some degree.
I'm sure schemes have evolved to slow it down some, but we did put up 31 on Miami last year. I believe it's more execution, and play calling to mismatch overly aggressive defenses. We have to think outside the box against teams that stack it.
 

IronJacket7

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2,393
There are complexities in the offense that ask more than HS, but I don't think it's as complex as all that. CPJ says simplify too much for that to be the issue.

Yes, but simplify to him might still be complex in general terms or to the average joe.
 

IronJacket7

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2,393
Nesbitt and company had 1/2 year to learn it and went 9-3 beating Clemson, fla st, Miami, Uga. I know we had a better defense then, but we averaged 34.5 points a game against those 4. Then went 11-2 the next year. Nesbitt wasn't a very effective passer and he did turn the ball over some, but he had that X factor when it came down to making a play. Vad should atleast be running the offense as good as Nesbitt did his first year.

You have to remember, Nesbitt also had a Jon Dwyer to had the ball to as well as pitch to an Anthony Allen and Roddy Jones. That is a great supporting cast. Not trying to take away from any of our current abs and bbs but it is a bit of difference imo.
 
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