Fire Geoff Collins

TampaGT

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I've been an open advocate of continuing the triple option, and think Monken is the best man for the job.... But let me break down your questions in what I believe to be a fair way.



Of course Georgia Tech has better talent than NIU. And they would have had better talent than NIU under Monken as well. But Georgia Tech is trying to run with the herd. Harder to do.



Absolutely disagree.... When you run a "herd" offense, in order to be better, you not only have to have equal or better players, but you must also have equal or better coaching.... Also, every team you play against is used to practicing against and competing against a "herd" offense.... Lesser teams are used to playing teams like that. Which again lends to the fact that you must recruit equal to or significantly better than your peers... and must coach equal to or better than your peers. But take "option" recruiting... Tobias Oliver had offers from Army, Mercer, and Troy. However, in the option system he is HIGHLY effective. So Georgia Tech is able to recruit a player that pretty much nobody wanted, and have a really good and impactful player. That is just one example. But it works throughout a lot of the offense.... Jordan Mason had a bunch of offers from nobodies, but is now an effective player and was a darn good BB.

So what I am trying to say is.... Collins is not recruiting nearly good enough for a herd offense to accomplish what Georgia Tech wants to accomplish. The 2021 class was ranked 49th by Rivals. The 2019 class was ranked 43. The 2017 class was ranked 41st by Rivals. And that class brought Tariq Carpenter, Tre Swilling, Jordan Mason, Jerry Howard, Tobias Oliver, and several good lineman that started a lot of games.



At least for me personally, it's a combination of things. First, I love the offense. Second, I think it's the most underused asset in college football today.... So many programs can't even figure out how to snap the ball, and yet, the military academies (and Georgia Tech previously) showed that you will put a good offense on the field with it. It just works.... It worked for Georgia Tech. CPJ's biggest problem was he could never get the defense up to an elite level.

Now.... I think Monken focuses a lot more on ball control and defense than CPJ did. I think he's a more well-rounded coach. I think he prepares better. I think there is a reason why Monken, despite running the triple option, keeps coming up for coaching vacancies around the world of college football. He's in arguably the most challenging job in the nation to produce a consistent winner... and he's winning. I think he would recruit well at Georgia Tech for his system. He's nearly won at Michigan and Oklahoma without ANY players who could play at those schools.... I think he knows how to win regardless of the situation. The dude beat Florida without even attempting a pass.

I think it's a great fit for Georgia Tech... I also think its a great fit for lots of programs.. I think it gives Georgia Tech the best chance at consistent success. I said this years ago on this forum and I will say it again...

1.) Don't join the herd
2.) Schedule for winning
3.) Understand your limitations (and that you have them)
4.) Embrace your strengths
5.) Leave your ego at the door

I believe this with every fiber of my being..... if I was the athletic director at Georgia Tech.... The following scenario is nearly guaranteed to happen.

Decision 1 - Don't join the herd...Hire Jeff Monken.... He will bring in Nate Woody as defensive coordinator and Brent Davis as offensive coordinator.

Decision 2 - Schedule for winning. Every season we will play 4 straight games to get the rotation set, timing right, develop our players, etc. Those 4 games will all be FBS (not FCS), but be heavily in Georgia Techs favor...UMASS - Connecticut - Bowling Green - Tulane.... Next season: Western Kentucky - Troy - Southern Miss - Florida International.... Etc.

Georgia Tech should open every season 4-0. barring a big upset.

If the conference season were this year, I would feel really good about beating:
Pittsburgh at home
Boston College at home
Duke on the road
Virginia Tech at home

That's 8-4..... Maybe they beat UNC at home and get to 9-3.

That's what I would predict for this year under Monken, with a 4-0 start.

Understand your limitations... You think Tech is gonna hire some offensive coordinator from Clemson, Ohio State, or Alabama and run the table? It ain't gonna happen. The goal of the program is to be consistently good, always in a bowl game, and try to strike lightning every now and then and try to squeeze into a playoff. Realistically, how many times in a decade should Georgia Tech expect that? Once? Twice? They haven't played for one in 31 years. 3 decades and a year.

ALL THAT BEING SAID, that is the path I see. That doesn't mean nobody else can win at Georgia Tech. I don't think Geoff Collins will, but I think a "herd" coach can obviously win at Georgia Tech. That system wins all over the place. I think it will be more difficult, less entertaining, with more risk of failure, more inconsistent, etc... But I could be totally wrong on that.
Well said, I think this should be required reading. That has been my belief since we started down this path. I think some people get all wrapped up in where we are ranked in recruiting. We even saw an uptick when they double the staff by adding 2 people to the recruiting staff.
 

awbuzz

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One other thing to make note of. Even though I have complained about some things, I still plan to attend all of the home games and I still plan to travel to South Bend in November. Just because I am unhappy with the state of the football program does not mean that I am not a fan.
+1
 

Vespidae

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I've calmed down a bit over the last couple of days. Not a lot ... just a bit. My musings ...

TStan said he was playing a long game. Raise money for a new Edge, rebuild recruiting of "quality" 3 stars and use the new Edge and investments in nutrition, strength and conditioning to turn them into 4 or 5 stars. Emphasize a pro-style attack to make playing in the NFL "possible" even if not likely. He spoke of legacy debt being reduced and more running room in the next few years (emphasis). I think that's why we have the assistants we do ... when we have more to spend, we will upgrade.

In other words, TStan may be completely fine with stinking for 4 years before we start to turn the corner. It's a "Bet the Program" wager.

My concern is ... if you do what everyone else does, you simply divide the equity. You MUST have an edge, an advantage doing something. Jim Collins said, "you have to find the one thing you can be the best in the world at and exploit that." I agree.

We should NOT have lost to NIU. I do think we are looking at another 3 win season. And I think we will continue to have 3 win seasons until we return to some kind of a competitive scheme that works for us. I loved the TO, but it's history.

In the meantime, we are Vandy. That's how far we have fallen. I just hope we can get up.
 

bobongo

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Well said, I think this should be required reading. That has been my belief since we started down this path. I think some people get all wrapped up in where we are ranked in recruiting. We even saw an uptick when they double the staff by adding 2 people to the recruiting staff.
The very thin recruiting budget held Paul's recruiting back, but also I didn't get the impression he was personally a very good recruiter. I think his offense was also a factor, but a smaller one than the other two. We should keep in mind that personnel-wise, we were at a nadir when he left.

But I do think that someone who runs his type of offense and is is a better recruiter personally, and with a better recruiting budget, could make a go of it and be very successful as long as he matched Paul's gameday coaching skills. I think too much blame for our recruiting woes was put on his offense, although as I said, I do think it was a factor.

I would like to have seen how much more successful Paul could have been with a good recruiting coordinator and a decent recruiting budget.
 

wvGT11

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I've calmed down a bit over the last couple of days. Not a lot ... just a bit. My musings ...

TStan said he was playing a long game. Raise money for a new Edge, rebuild recruiting of "quality" 3 stars and use the new Edge and investments in nutrition, strength and conditioning to turn them into 4 or 5 stars. Emphasize a pro-style attack to make playing in the NFL "possible" even if not likely. He spoke of legacy debt being reduced and more running room in the next few years (emphasis). I think that's why we have the assistants we do ... when we have more to spend, we will upgrade.

In other words, TStan may be completely fine with stinking for 4 years before we start to turn the corner. It's a "Bet the Program" wager.

My concern is ... if you do what everyone else does, you simply divide the equity. You MUST have an edge, an advantage doing something. Jim Collins said, "you have to find the one thing you can be the best in the world at and exploit that." I agree.

We should NOT have lost to NIU. I do think we are looking at another 3 win season. And I think we will continue to have 3 win seasons until we return to some kind of a competitive scheme that works for us. I loved the TO, but it's history.

In the meantime, we are Vandy. That's how far we have fallen. I just hope we can get up.
I'm perfectly fine with this, as long as we see improvement. The issue for me is losing to schools like the Citadel, Temple and now NIU.
A few bad years, fine but losing to those schools or similar with the kind of recruits we have now, shouldn't be a thing especially in year 3.
 

684Bee

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The very thin recruiting budget held Paul's recruiting back, but also I didn't get the impression he was personally a very good recruiter. I think his offense was also a factor, but a smaller one than the other two. We should keep in mind that personnel-wise, we were at a nadir when he left.

But I do think that someone who runs his type of offense and is is a better recruiter personally, and with a better recruiting budget, could make a go of it and be very successful as long as he matched Paul's gameday coaching skills. I think too much blame for our recruiting woes was put on his offense, although as I said, I do think it was a factor.

I would like to have seen how much more successful Paul could have been with a good recruiting coordinator and a decent recruiting budget.
We would’ve been in the playoff at least once. Add a decent D coordinator, and we’d have been in it a couple of times.
 

bobongo

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I've calmed down a bit over the last couple of days. Not a lot ... just a bit. My musings ...

TStan said he was playing a long game. Raise money for a new Edge, rebuild recruiting of "quality" 3 stars and use the new Edge and investments in nutrition, strength and conditioning to turn them into 4 or 5 stars. Emphasize a pro-style attack to make playing in the NFL "possible" even if not likely. He spoke of legacy debt being reduced and more running room in the next few years (emphasis). I think that's why we have the assistants we do ... when we have more to spend, we will upgrade.

In other words, TStan may be completely fine with stinking for 4 years before we start to turn the corner. It's a "Bet the Program" wager.

My concern is ... if you do what everyone else does, you simply divide the equity. You MUST have an edge, an advantage doing something. Jim Collins said, "you have to find the one thing you can be the best in the world at and exploit that." I agree.

We should NOT have lost to NIU. I do think we are looking at another 3 win season. And I think we will continue to have 3 win seasons until we return to some kind of a competitive scheme that works for us. I loved the TO, but it's history.

In the meantime, we are Vandy. That's how far we have fallen. I just hope we can get up.
Your post makes a lot of sense, except that I do think we can do better than 3-win seasons running a common offense.
I get the point that there's no path to the top with that, but three win seasons aren't the ceiling. 7 or 8 maybe, but 3 is too low. That is, with the right coach...
 

Vespidae

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I'm perfectly fine with this, as long as we see improvement. The issue for me is losing to schools like the Citadel, Temple and now NIU.
A few bad years, fine but losing to those schools or similar with the kind of recruits we have now, shouldn't be a thing especially in year 3.
I don't disagree. But Geoff is building an "elite program" when he doesn't have "elite program" resources.

I watched the Tennessee game the other night with a buddy of mine who played for them in the glory days. Being aware of the problems on the team from Pruitt's time, he still said ... "Anything less than 35 points is a disaster." I think that's the case here. Geoff did not prepare the team, have a plan or <insert reason>, but we should have beaten a winless team. Probably by 3 TDs minimum.

Unless ... we really are that bad.
 

Vespidae

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Your post makes a lot of sense, except that I do think we can do better than 3-win seasons running a common offense.
I get the point that there's no path to the top with that, but three win seasons aren't the ceiling. 7 or 8 maybe, but 3 is too low. That is, with the right coach...
To be clear, I was referring to this year as a 3 win year. We may do better in the future, but I don't think we will ever be more than an average program ... six or seven wins a year. If you look at the facilities and resources at Alabama, Clemson, UGA, Tennessee, etc ... it is mind-blowing how far from that we are. I'm glad we are playing D1 but the gap is getting wider every minute.
 

AlabamaBuzz

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I haven't seen any issues with that item myself. I did go to GT, so maybe it just rolls right over me, but I haven't seen anyone talk negatively to anybody else regarding being an alumnus or not. I have seen people ask. If the answer is yes, it usually leads to a discussion about departments, classes, profs, Junior's Grill, etc. If the answer is no, it usually leads to a discussion about how the person became a GT fan. I haven't seen anyone being snobby or turn away. Maybe it happens everywhere in the stadium except for the areas I have sat in.
I am also an alum. In general, not referring to them specifically. I used the term “fanbase”.

It was more tongue in cheek based on the gtswarm banter and also what has been reported about our big $$ supporters.
 

stech81

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I've calmed down a bit over the last couple of days. Not a lot ... just a bit. My musings ...

TStan said he was playing a long game. Raise money for a new Edge, rebuild recruiting of "quality" 3 stars and use the new Edge and investments in nutrition, strength and conditioning to turn them into 4 or 5 stars. Emphasize a pro-style attack to make playing in the NFL "possible" even if not likely. He spoke of legacy debt being reduced and more running room in the next few years (emphasis). I think that's why we have the assistants we do ... when we have more to spend, we will upgrade.

In other words, TStan may be completely fine with stinking for 4 years before we start to turn the corner. It's a "Bet the Program" wager.

My concern is ... if you do what everyone else does, you simply divide the equity. You MUST have an edge, an advantage doing something. Jim Collins said, "you have to find the one thing you can be the best in the world at and exploit that." I agree.

We should NOT have lost to NIU. I do think we are looking at another 3 win season. And I think we will continue to have 3 win seasons until we return to some kind of a competitive scheme that works for us. I loved the TO, but it's history.

In the meantime, we are Vandy. That's how far we have fallen. I just hope we can get up.
Glad you calmed down a little. and if I do then something else pops up ( GCG interview the man can't answer a question) I sorry the man has no clue and point blank can't coach. Right now I'm trying to see if I can find 3 win Kenn State , Duke maybe 50% but you know Cut will out coach CGC and that is all I see.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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I am also an alum. In general, not referring to them specifically. I used the term “fanbase”.

It was more tongue in cheek based on the gtswarm banter and also what has been reported about our big $$ supporters.

Our big $$ supporters are getting older and are somewhat out of touch with modern college football. We need some former NFL guys to come back and invest in the program the way Texiera is doing with the baseball program.
 

swampsting

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One other thing to make note of. Even though I have complained about some things, I still plan to attend all of the home games and I still plan to travel to South Bend in November. Just because I am unhappy with the state of the football program does not mean that I am not a fan.
Had been planning to go this Saturday but may not now. Not out of apathy or antipathy. May have some 9/11 events to be at. For those, I'll miss a Tech game. Even one against a coach I know pretty well and like a lot.
Talked about going to South Bend. Haven't really nailed that trip down one way or the other, tho.
 

swampsting

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The very thin recruiting budget held Paul's recruiting back, but also I didn't get the impression he was personally a very good recruiter. I think his offense was also a factor, but a smaller one than the other two. We should keep in mind that personnel-wise, we were at a nadir when he left.

But I do think that someone who runs his type of offense and is is a better recruiter personally, and with a better recruiting budget, could make a go of it and be very successful as long as he matched Paul's gameday coaching skills. I think too much blame for our recruiting woes was put on his offense, although as I said, I do think it was a factor.

I would like to have seen how much more successful Paul could have been with a good recruiting coordinator and a decent recruiting budget.
somewhere buried deep in the records of this site is the story of Tobias Oliver's recruiting.
His main recruiter wasn't a position coach or the coach who has that area of Georgia.
It was PJ.
He also tried to close the deal with a 4 star CB, Corn Elder, by having him sit with him at a Tech basketball game.
The current staff has done a better job on social media and getting everyone on staff to invest in social media and in recruiting.
 

swampsting

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Um, someone wanna tell Cunningham that Collins has yet to beat a team that finished with a winning record? That the FSU that was such a heavy favorite last year was a 3-win team too when it was said and done? And that 14 of the 17 losses have been by double digits?
Man, the premise Collins' teams have punched above their weight is just absurdly flawed.
All it does is make me think this is what happens:

"Ok, guys, so Bradley threw Collins under the bus with his post game column. Who wants to do one supporting him? Hummer, you got time? Tour Championship is done."
"Nah, I'm going to (expletive) do (expletive) something on (expletive) Kennesaw State. Expletive! Anybody seen my (expletive) keys?"
"Mike?"
"I was gonna do something on the Falcons and then maybe the Clint Capela signing..."
"Too bad. Tag, you're it. Hey the desk would like it by 3:30 today, if you can."

And yes, Hummer does cuss that much. Seriously.
 

bobongo

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Um, someone wanna tell Cunningham that Collins has yet to beat a team that finished with a winning record? That the FSU that was such a heavy favorite last year was a 3-win team too when it was said and done? And that 14 of the 17 losses have been by double digits?
Man, the premise Collins' teams have punched above their weight is just absurdly flawed.
All it does is make me think this is what happens:

"Ok, guys, so Bradley threw Collins under the bus with his post game column. Who wants to do one supporting him? Hummer, you got time? Tour Championship is done."
"Nah, I'm going to (expletive) do (expletive) something on (expletive) Kennesaw State. Expletive! Anybody seen my (expletive) keys?"
"Mike?"
"I was gonna do something on the Falcons and then maybe the Clint Capela signing..."
"Too bad. Tag, you're it. Hey the desk would like it by 3:30 today, if you can."

And yes, Hummer does cuss that much. Seriously.
Just click bait. And I'm sick and tired of the salesman schtick. Less selling and more winning, please.
The time has passed for the hype, the "404", the "ATL", the "Money Down". The time for tangible results on the scoreboard has arrived.

Right now.
 
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