Expansion Talk 2021

RonJohn

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Sure would be nice if forward thinking took hold in the ACC. This cost the big boys gate revenue but it helps bring up the bottom of the conference. Plus the TV value of the conference itself more than makes up for the top teams gate losses.

Or maybe GT fans should not be asking on fan message boards why GT has the gall to charge $55 for tickets inside the 30s, and state that the good tickets should only cost $10 or $15. Why would a Clemson fan want to provide extra gate money to GT, when GT's own fans complain that they can't get a 35 yard line seat to an individual game for $15. What does a Clemson fan have to pay per game to get a 35 yard line seat? How much do they have to have donated to IPTAY in order to have the privilege of purchasing season tickets on the 35 yard line at that price? Mutt fans pay hundreds for bad seats to a game. Some mutt fans have paid hundreds for season tickets in lesser seats in our stadium in order to get a ticket to the mutt game. GT's fans are weak. That isn't the ACC's fault.
 

Northeast Stinger

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Or maybe GT fans should not be asking on fan message boards why GT has the gall to charge $55 for tickets inside the 30s, and state that the good tickets should only cost $10 or $15. Why would a Clemson fan want to provide extra gate money to GT, when GT's own fans complain that they can't get a 35 yard line seat to an individual game for $15. What does a Clemson fan have to pay per game to get a 35 yard line seat? How much do they have to have donated to IPTAY in order to have the privilege of purchasing season tickets on the 35 yard line at that price? Mutt fans pay hundreds for bad seats to a game. Some mutt fans have paid hundreds for season tickets in lesser seats in our stadium in order to get a ticket to the mutt game. GT's fans are weak. That isn't the ACC's fault.
Ouch.

As Pogo used to say, “We have met the enemy and he is us.”
 

Technut1990

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960
I can’t speak for others but it is not like “doing nothing” is the preferred choice. The hope is that there is some kind of restructuring deal behind the scenes. Biding time, though not ideal, might be the only option left if we can’t upgrade the conference image with some splashy additions at this time. Several have explained why adding WV adds zero value to the conference and might even be detrimental if it means other teams now get a smaller piece of the pie. Also, several of us have shared that the fact that WV hasn’t landed in a major conference after years of trying may tell you something about the market factors at work.

if my thesis is that building value for The ACC involves bigger fan bases WV makes all the sense in the world. I think y’all are judging this entire deal through SEC lenses, how much does WV write the check for thinking, where the money is creating the value. I don’t care about the current monetary value I care about future fan base value, adding 300,000 more fans via 4-6 schools will generate more money. once I have that I can develop the value Via marketing and product. It’s a larger example of what everyone has agreed on about Tech. Tech gets better with more fans not because of ESPN but because more fans contribute more money.

institute gate/conference sharing and boom Tech, Duke, Wake, BC, Syracuse and the other schools not named Clemson, NC or Fla State has 2 million more a year. Adding schools who are big also gives The ACC a right to renegotiate its ESPN contract which would have to bring more money by default considering it as a package involves more schools who weren’t in the current package. With a gate share alone of just UCF and WV the value equation changes, it’s not the same value share as it’s currently based on. Yes it’s small compared to current TV revenue but 1-3 million more a year ain’t small if you are Tech.

Anyway if I were The ACC commish y’all would hate me no doubt about that.

Tomorrow I would send out back room messages for WV, UCF, USF, Texas Tech, TCU and Baylor to petition to join, I would institute true gate sharing and start soliciting all school presidents to contribute to a marketing fund for the “marketing of their schools”. I didn’t say sports programs I said schools. People would know every member school like the back of their hands, alcohol would be in every stadium and promotions would be an every game event, top tier vendors would be selling food and The conference would be incorporating current and former pro athletes in TV commercials and autograph events at the schools, weekly. My venues would be turned into community centers and concert halls and The ACC a would be the cool place to be everyday not just game day. Spring and Fall fairs, axe throwing, seed spitting, beauty pageants EVERYTHING would be going on at every school. If Texas Tech wants to have Bull riding then they would be doing it. I ain’t taking a backseat to anyone. If ND dosent want to come in then they ain’t playing any of my member teams. In ten years they would want in and ESPN would make us at least the 2nd biggest TV offer. Why ? Because The ACC and million fans would demand it and so would I. I wouldn’t hope and pray ND saves us or that The SEC blesses us with a partnership, matter of fact since they consider themselves bigger and better they would pay us to come to their stadiums. I’ll take 1 million per game.

new ideas and new formats would be The ACC business model
 

Technut1990

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
960
Or maybe GT fans should not be asking on fan message boards why GT has the gall to charge $55 for tickets inside the 30s, and state that the good tickets should only cost $10 or $15. Why would a Clemson fan want to provide extra gate money to GT, when GT's own fans complain that they can't get a 35 yard line seat to an individual game for $15. What does a Clemson fan have to pay per game to get a 35 yard line seat? How much do they have to have donated to IPTAY in order to have the privilege of purchasing season tickets on the 35 yard line at that price? Mutt fans pay hundreds for bad seats to a game. Some mutt fans have paid hundreds for season tickets in lesser seats in our stadium in order to get a ticket to the mutt game. GT's fans are weak. That isn't the ACC's fault.

arguments never heard in the Big 10 I’m sure. I don’t care about excuses neither did the Big 10 when they told Ohio State to pay Rutgers. Theres always an excuse NOT to do something, why make parachutes when you can just stay in the plane ?
 

RonJohn

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arguments never heard in the Big 10 I’m sure. I don’t care about excuses neither did the Big 10 when they told Ohio State to pay Rutgers. Theres always an excuse NOT to do something, why make parachutes when you can just stay in the plane ?
I am confused by that analogy. Are you comparing Clemson fans to staying in the plane for not wanting to financially support GT, or are you comparing GT fans to staying in the plane while waiting for Clemson to come and save them?

GT fans should not be waiting for socialism to help the athletic department. Get season tickets. Get extra tickets. Donate to the AT fund. Buy merchandise. If GT fans do those things, there will be no need to wait for sports socialism.
 

okiemon

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1,747
I can: the Apple cup, bedlam, COFH, backyard brawl, golden boot. The Iron Bowl still attracts more eyes than any other rivalries, including the ND USC game. Possibly the Michigan v Ohio St is the only other comparable rivalry in terms of eyes watching. Using AU vs UA as an example for declining rivalry stats is a swing and a miss.

One game wont move the needle for an entire conference. Army & Navy each have minimalist stadiums and any shine for the interesting road trips for fans would soon wear off. Thumbs up for them as a patriot, but thumbs down on them joining the ACC.
I may be wrong, but when Augusta brought up Army-Navy, it was in reference to the list of most-watched rivalries, not a suggestion that they join the ACC.
 
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I am confused by that analogy. Are you comparing Clemson fans to staying in the plane for not wanting to financially support GT, or are you comparing GT fans to staying in the plane while waiting for Clemson to come and save them?

GT fans should not be waiting for socialism to help the athletic department. Get season tickets. Get extra tickets. Donate to the AT fund. Buy merchandise. If GT fans do those things, there will be no need to wait for sports socialism.
Hey, I'd buy some more merchandise if we would come out with a new jersey......prepare for mods to move to swag thread in 3-2-1...
 

bobongo

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7,043
If the Kansas stories are correct, expect Iowa State to join the B1G as well. That would pretty much close the door on ND becoming a member.

These four 16 member conferences (PAC-12 will soon be 16 if this happens) are not going to let a single independent school keep them out of a four team CFP. The pressure on ND will continue to build.

The puzzlement I still have about all this is just wondering how much does the money really control everything. Would a WVU invitation from the ACC entice Penn State to move to the ACC? From a financial POV that makes no sense. But being part of a conference centered around the mid-Atlantic with Pitt, VT, UVa, WVU, and Syracuse (all very close to them) might be very attractive. At some point the university presidents have to ask themselves whether football is really about money or is it a diversion for students and a nice way to stay attached to alums. Does football make Penn State a better school? If not, what about football makes the school a better place to spend four years getting a PSU degree?
That's a good question. I guess the answer is, unfortunately, that it's all about money - the root of all evil (or at least, most of it).
 

Augusta_Jacket

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Augusta, Georgia
I may be wrong, but when Augusta brought up Army-Navy, it was in reference to the list of most-watched rivalries, not a suggestion that they join the ACC.

You are correct. Also, CBS owns the rights to that game, which is almost always played at a neutral field, so getting them to join brings no monetary value to the ACC...

UNLESS, you use Navy as the carrot to get ND to join finally. ND sacrificed the UM rivalry but insisted on keeping their game with Navy. I've always said if we could get ND to join I'd gladly take Navy as their permanent crossover.
 

stech81

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Interesting that Penn State loses over $4 million in gate receipts by being part of the B1G. I think we could make them a better deal. 😊
nice try make up another reason. this is from 2019 looks to me like they are doing fine in the Big 10

Number of home games: 7

Average attendance: 105,678

2018 avg. attendance: 105,485

In a rare scheduling quirk, Penn State started the season with four home contests over the first five games, benefiting from that to start unbeaten and climb inside the Top 15. Fans came out in full force at Beaver Stadium up until the finale vs. Rutgers that saw a season-low 98,895 announced attendance. Failing to reach 100,000 there however didn't cause the Nittany Lions to drop past the No. 2 spot nationally, which is also where Penn State landed during the 2018 campaign. Penn State is one of the few programs nationally not having any issues putting butts in seats every Saturday.
 

Northeast Stinger

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nice try make up another reason. this is from 2019 looks to me like they are doing fine in the Big 10

Number of home games: 7

Average attendance: 105,678

2018 avg. attendance: 105,485

In a rare scheduling quirk, Penn State started the season with four home contests over the first five games, benefiting from that to start unbeaten and climb inside the Top 15. Fans came out in full force at Beaver Stadium up until the finale vs. Rutgers that saw a season-low 98,895 announced attendance. Failing to reach 100,000 there however didn't cause the Nittany Lions to drop past the No. 2 spot nationally, which is also where Penn State landed during the 2018 campaign. Penn State is one of the few programs nationally not having any issues putting butts in seats every Saturday.
What are you talking about!?

I think you are not paying attention to the whole flow of the argument. I was the one that posted previously that Penn State is the third most watched team in the nation. This is why I would love to have them in the ACC. But because they are in the B1G they don’t get to keep all their gate receipts. They bring value to the B1G because of national following, TV attractability and all the rest.

So, yes, they do quite well. But what I was sharing tongue in cheek is that the ACC does not require teams to give up a percentage of their gate receipts. Penn State currently has to give up over 4
$4 million a year back to the B1G, money they could keep as part of the ACC.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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nice try make up another reason. this is from 2019 looks to me like they are doing fine in the Big 10

Number of home games: 7

Average attendance: 105,678

2018 avg. attendance: 105,485

In a rare scheduling quirk, Penn State started the season with four home contests over the first five games, benefiting from that to start unbeaten and climb inside the Top 15. Fans came out in full force at Beaver Stadium up until the finale vs. Rutgers that saw a season-low 98,895 announced attendance. Failing to reach 100,000 there however didn't cause the Nittany Lions to drop past the No. 2 spot nationally, which is also where Penn State landed during the 2018 campaign. Penn State is one of the few programs nationally not having any issues putting butts in seats every Saturday.

Penn State loses $4 million in revenue sharing each year. It was in the article that was linked.
 

bobongo

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Messages
7,043
What are you talking about!?

I think you are not paying attention to the whole flow of the argument. I was the one that posted previously that Penn State is the third most watched team in the nation. This is why I would love to have them in the ACC. But because they are in the B1G they don’t get to keep all their gate receipts. They bring value to the B1G because of national following, TV attractability and all the rest.

So, yes, they do quite well. But what I was sharing tongue in cheek is that the ACC does not require teams to give up a percentage of their gate receipts. Penn State currently has to give up over 4
$4 million a year back to the B1G, money they could keep as part of the ACC.
Yes, but they'd have to give up at least 17 million as a member of the ACC in order for them to keep their 4 million.

Big Ten Daily: Big Ten Led All Conferences in 2020 Revenue - Sports Illustrated Indiana Hoosiers News, Analysis and More

School Payouts​

  • Big Ten: $54.3 million
  • SEC: $45.5 million
  • Big 12: $37 to $40.5 million
  • Pac-12: $33.6 million
  • ACC: $30.9 to $37 million
 

forensicbuzz

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North Shore, Chicago
if my thesis is that building value for The ACC involves bigger fan bases WV makes all the sense in the world. I think y’all are judging this entire deal through SEC lenses, how much does WV write the check for thinking, where the money is creating the value. I don’t care about the current monetary value I care about future fan base value, adding 300,000 more fans via 4-6 schools will generate more money. once I have that I can develop the value Via marketing and product. It’s a larger example of what everyone has agreed on about Tech. Tech gets better with more fans not because of ESPN but because more fans contribute more money. NO.

institute gate/conference sharing and boom Tech, Duke, Wake, BC, Syracuse and the other schools not named Clemson, NC or Fla State has 2 million more a year. Adding schools who are big also gives The ACC a right to renegotiate its ESPN contract which would have to bring more money by default considering it as a package involves more schools who weren’t in the current package. With a gate share alone of just UCF and WV the value equation changes, it’s not the same value share as it’s currently based on. Yes it’s small compared to current TV revenue but 1-3 million more a year ain’t small if you are Tech. No, it wouldn't. Gate sharing doesn't exist, never existed, and will never exist.

Anyway if I were The ACC commish y’all would hate me no doubt about that. No doubt. We'd also be full of also-rans. I'll stick with the current ACC Commissioner. He has a proven track record of building winners in this industry.

Tomorrow I would send out back room messages for WV, UCF, USF, Texas Tech, TCU and Baylor to petition to join, I would institute true gate sharing and start soliciting all school presidents to contribute to a marketing fund for the “marketing of their schools”. I didn’t say sports programs I said schools. People would know every member school like the back of their hands, alcohol would be in every stadium and promotions would be an every game event, top tier vendors would be selling food and The conference would be incorporating current and former pro athletes in TV commercials and autograph events at the schools, weekly. My venues would be turned into community centers and concert halls and The ACC a would be the cool place to be everyday not just game day. Spring and Fall fairs, axe throwing, seed spitting, beauty pageants EVERYTHING would be going on at every school. If Texas Tech wants to have Bull riding then they would be doing it. I ain’t taking a backseat to anyone. If ND dosent want to come in then they ain’t playing any of my member teams. In ten years they would want in and ESPN would make us at least the 2nd biggest TV offer. Why ? Because The ACC and million fans would demand it and so would I. I wouldn’t hope and pray ND saves us or that The SEC blesses us with a partnership, matter of fact since they consider themselves bigger and better they would pay us to come to their stadiums. I’ll take 1 million per game. This just isn't based in reality.

new ideas and new formats would be The ACC business model I hope you're having fun, because none of this is actually going to happen.
 

Northeast Stinger

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stech81

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What are you talking about!?

I think you are not paying attention to the whole flow of the argument. I was the one that posted previously that Penn State is the third most watched team in the nation. This is why I would love to have them in the ACC. But because they are in the B1G they don’t get to keep all their gate receipts. They bring value to the B1G because of national following, TV attractability and all the rest.

So, yes, they do quite well. But what I was sharing tongue in cheek is that the ACC does not require teams to give up a percentage of their gate receipts. Penn State currently has to give up over 4
$4 million a year back to the B1G, money they could keep as part of the ACC.
Sorry I made a mistake read the stuff before that again sorry

Hence why I had to go to Southern Tech cause I don't read well. :)
 

Northeast Stinger

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Sorry I made a mistake read the stuff before that again sorry

Hence why I had to go to Southern Tech cause I don't read well. :)
My best friend in high school went to Southern Tech. Always admired him for that 😊

Didn’t mean to act like I was yelling. This expansion thing has got me jumpy 🤪
 

stech81

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Woodstock Georgia
My best friend in high school went to Southern Tech. Always admired him for that 😊

Didn’t mean to act like I was yelling. This expansion thing has got me jumpy 🤪
The good thing about being old It may not matter to me in a few years. One thing I did learn no need to worry about something I have no control ,and I'm sure they won't ask me what to do or we would still be in the SEC.
 

Techster

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Yes, but they'd have to give up at least 17 million as a member of the ACC in order for them to keep their 4 million.

Big Ten Daily: Big Ten Led All Conferences in 2020 Revenue - Sports Illustrated Indiana Hoosiers News, Analysis and More

School Payouts​

  • Big Ten: $54.3 million
  • SEC: $45.5 million
  • Big 12: $37 to $40.5 million
  • Pac-12: $33.6 million
  • ACC: $30.9 to $37 million

This is why it's LOL funny that anyone would think a B1G team would leave for the ACC. That disparity is only going to get bigger in the coming years/decades.

What's sad to think about is how much money GT turned down. Over the next 15 years of the ACC's remaining GOR lifespan, GT will have lost at minimum $255 MILLION. Look at that number...that's most likely going to be a MUCH larger number in 15 years.

If those are the kind of strategic decisions we're going to make, GT can not complain about revenue issues because that's the bed we made for ourselves.
 
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