Expansion Talk 2021

Techster

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and what you think may happen is that The Dukes and Vandys are still in the SEC after all the merging dust settles. This isn’t about fandom, and I’ll take the backseat to none in that category either. It’s about winning. Sure we can jump to the mighty SEC and be the 20th best team out of the 28, that will do all the fans and season ticket sales wonders. WTF let’s fight Vandy for the cellar. IF you think Tech is on the same level as Bama, Georgia, LSU, Texas, Oklahoma, Auburn, Florida, Texas A&M, Clemson, Missouri, North Carolina, Florida State Or Miami financially you would be mistaken. You say we would be part of the center of the college athletics but we wouldn’t. We would be knee deep in the middle of billion dollar sports budgets while spending a third of that on our sports programs. Competitive hope not withstanding we may be on par with South Carolina, Mississippi St, Tenn, Ole Miss, Kentucky and Arkansas but doubtful, they all outspend Tech on football alone. The absolute truth is it does us no good to be in a conference that’s so stacked with money and teams that our future would be that of Vanderbilts. Money does no good when the competition is light years ahead before the bigger pie gets split. Tech may increase it sports budget by 50 million but that won’t touch what these other schools can already spend. They are already rich and they will add the same amount to their budget as Tech does and we will still be behind.

Techs best hope is that The ACC stays together where we can continue our upward course, where recruits see us as the outlier and a up and coming sports school. I love Tech and because of that I don’t wish to see us mired in the lower middle of schools who have been pumping money and recruits into their programs for 20 years as we just start.

If all this shifting is truly gonna hit, and I’ve stated several times i believe it is, The ACC would be better off casing aside the lower tier of member schools and going all out to get ND, Oklahoma St, Texas Tech, Baylor and yes even West Virginia, even UCF and USF

IF it folds into the SEC most of the ACC teams that go will immediately become 2nd tier teams just in it for the money. Most Tech fans want wins. I’m not betraying my team by hoping they can land in a conference that makes money and in which they can actually be contenders to win the championship.

Tech would be stupid to jump in that SEC tidal wave for any other reason than money. If you want a team that’s playing for something every year we are better suited to play in a conference with schools that are in similar situations. In any scenario you can imagine Tech doesn’t improve until the school dedicates more resources to its sports, we can be in the SEC if folks like but our Admin still has to spend the money on itself.

You can keep your negativity about GT. I have more faith in GT than you do. You act like GT can't be competitive when our history has shown we can be competitive and with periods of excellence: GT beat Auburn under Chan Gailey (CHAN GAILEY!!!) when Auburn was predicted to win the National Championship. We won the national title in 1990. We've been to two Orange Bowls in the just the last 12 years. We've gone to 4 ACCCG in since 2006. How many "factory" type programs have we beaten since the modern age of P5 conferences? We've actually only had 4 losing seasons since 2000. Alabama has had 3 losing seasons since 2000, Texas has had 4. The point is, teams you view has unbeatable to GT won't always be that way...but you don't get to find out if you're not on the field.

The fact is, the ACC is not going to be the "ACC" soon. GT fans who think we can remain status quo and be fine are putting their heads in the sand. We gave up fighting on the field by leaving the SEC, and it cost us decades of wandering the desert. We turned away from the B1G, and now we struggle to break even and compete because we barely scrape by with revenue when life would have been MUCH easier with an extra $15-20 million a year from the B1G.


@Northeast Stinger mentioned that leaving the SEC and turning down the B1G was only a mistake in hindsight (which I disagree with...but that's a totally different discussion), but let's talk about the here and now. We're at a point where GT is standing on a rock by the edge of the ocean and everyone can see two giant waves heading towards us. GT can either stand on that rock and do nothing and get destroyed by those waves, or we can be proactive, paddle out to meet those waves, and enjoy the glory that comes with surfing those giant monsters. There will always be risks involved in change. The outcome of GT standing idly by is far more disastrous for our program than joining a more competitive league that helps our bottom line...and also give us the chance of relevancy. Make no mistake, GT is headed the way of UCF, Tulane, Cinncinnatti if we get the opportunity to join a new look SEC or B1G and we turn it down. If you're happy with almost ZERO chance of making the playoffs, and living the life of reduced revenue have nots, then turning down the SEC or B1G is the move GT fans like you should take. Keep in mind, if you think GT attendance is bad now, wait until GT is no longer part of a meaningful conference. That's not a move I would make because that's giving GT zero chance before we even get on the field. No thanks.
 

Techster

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WVU just turned into the old guy at the bar buying every girl a drink hoping it impresses someone to go home with them...

 

Augusta_Jacket

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You can keep your negativity about GT. I have more faith in GT than you do. You act like GT can't be competitive when our history has shown we can be competitive and with periods of excellence: GT beat Auburn under Chan Gailey (CHAN GAILEY!!!) when Auburn was predicted to win the National Championship. We won the national title in 1990. We've been to two Orange Bowls in the just the last 12 years. We've gone to 4 ACCCG in since 2006. How many "factory" type programs have we beaten since the modern age of P5 conferences? We've actually only had 4 losing seasons since 2000. Alabama has had 3 losing seasons since 2000, Texas has had 4. The point is, teams you view has unbeatable to GT won't always be that way...but you don't get to find out if you're not on the field.

The fact is, the ACC is not going to be the "ACC" soon. GT fans who think we can remain status quo and be fine are putting their heads in the sand. We gave up fighting on the field by leaving the SEC, and it cost us decades of wandering the desert. We turned away from the B1G, and now we struggle to break even and compete because we barely scrape by with revenue when life would have been MUCH easier with an extra $15-20 million a year from the B1G.


@Northeast Stinger mentioned that leaving the SEC and turning down the B1G was only a mistake in hindsight (which I disagree with...but that's a totally different discussion), but let's talk about the here and now. We're at a point where GT is standing on a rock by the edge of the ocean and everyone can see two giant waves heading towards us. GT can either stand on that rock and do nothing and get destroyed by those waves, or we can be proactive, paddle out to meet those waves, and enjoy the glory that comes with surfing those giant monsters. There will always be risks involved in change. The outcome of GT standing idly by is far more disastrous for our program than joining a more competitive league that helps our bottom line...and also give us the chance of relevancy. Make no mistake, GT is headed the way of UCF, Tulane, Cinncinnatti if we get the opportunity to join a new look SEC or B1G and we turn it down. If you're happy with almost ZERO chance of making the playoffs, and living the life of reduced revenue have nots, then turning down the SEC or B1G is the move GT fans like you should take. Keep in mind, if you think GT attendance is bad now, wait until GT is no longer part of a meaningful conference. That's not a move I would make because that's giving GT zero chance before we even get on the field. No thanks.

Couple of things:

We have 5 losing seasons since 2000.

When you say competitive, do you mean winning 6-7 games most years against a schedule likely to be much tougher than what we usually face?

I love your fervor, but history says we are a 7 win team that with the right coaching and circumstances can occasionally win 10 in a special season. While there is no reason to think we can's improve somewhat, I don't see any way in which an SEC/ACC merger makes us automatically better. Sure, we will get more money to spend on football, but so will everyone involved. The delta between us and the factories will remain. I agree that we would be fools to not attempt to be a part of it if given the choice, but I don't see it as a route for improvement for us. We will most likely be in the same position as now but in a different conference/league.
 

orientalnc

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If you're happy with almost ZERO chance of making the playoffs, and living the life of reduced revenue have nots, then turning down the SEC or B1G is the move GT fans like you should take. Keep in mind, if you think GT attendance is bad now, wait until GT is no longer part of a meaningful conference. That's not a move I would make because that's giving GT zero chance before we even get on the field. No thanks.
With the money dominating college football and basketball I doubt our chances at the playoffs or Final Four are essentially much better than zero now. At the peak of our football history, we had a stadium with 45,000 seats. Our attendance is off now because expectations have been relatively low. I also think ESPN and FSN televising all of our games discourages some grads from devoting all day to a game when 3 hours at home is a decent substitute.

Unless the ACC starts to crumble we are where we will be when the next GOR negotiations begin. The SEC already has the ATL market locked up and Indiana v. Northwestern games are not going to move the needle 1 point.
 

Techster

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Couple of things:

We have 5 losing seasons since 2000.

When you say competitive, do you mean winning 6-7 games most years against a schedule likely to be much tougher than what we usually face?

I love your fervor, but history says we are a 7 win team that with the right coaching and circumstances can occasionally win 10 in a special season. While there is no reason to think we can's improve somewhat, I don't see any way in which an SEC/ACC merger makes us automatically better. Sure, we will get more money to spend on football, but so will everyone involved. The delta between us and the factories will remain. I agree that we would be fools to not attempt to be a part of it if given the choice, but I don't see it as a route for improvement for us. We will most likely be in the same position as now but in a different conference/league.

Never said GT would become an elite team or a very good team. History shows what you have said, GT will probably come in somewhere between 7-9 wins, with closer to 7 wins being the norm.

My point is, even if that's the best case scenario for GT in the new SEC/B1G, it a much better outcome than being a 7-9 win outside of the new SEC/B1G. Anything outside of the new conference would negatively impact the viability of GT sports (see what happened between GT leaving the SEC and finally getting accepted into the ACC).
 

Techster

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With the money dominating college football and basketball I doubt our chances at the playoffs or Final Four are essentially much better than zero now. At the peak of our football history, we had a stadium with 45,000 seats. Our attendance is off now because expectations have been relatively low. I also think ESPN and FSN televising all of our games discourages some grads from devoting all day to a game when 3 hours at home is a decent substitute.

Unless the ACC starts to crumble we are where we will be when the next GOR negotiations begin. The SEC already has the ATL market locked up and Indiana v. Northwestern games are not going to move the needle 1 point.

In 2014 GT had a chance to make the playoffs with a win against FSU in the ACCCG plus outcomes with other teams around the country. We were #11 heading into the ACCCG. We lost a very close game to FSU who went on to the Finals.

GT doesn't often find ourselves in those positions, but to say it isn't "much better than zero" ignores history. There's a reason why GT is referred to as a "sleeping giant" by some in the media.


If it leverages its advantages and mitigates its limitations, Georgia Tech could emerge as a perennial power and a perpetual problem for the rest of the ACC.

“The resources are there for them,” ESPN national recruiting director and former Tech quarterback Tom Luginbill said. “If North Carolina State can go back to back nine-win seasons in the ACC, there is no reason why Georgia Tech shouldn't be in the Top 4 most competitive programs in the country.


Really, the people most negative about GT are our own fans. It's becoming a self fulfilling prophecy for us at this point with how negative our fanbase is. Remember all the talk about how GT would never be able to recruit and sign multiple elite players each class? "GT has too many hurdles!!!!" We literally heard it for a decade every time someone would say GT should be recruiting a lot better. Well, how do those negative nancies look now?

GT is what we want it to be. Right now, it's harder to convince GT fans that our program should be a much better program than we are than it is to convince 2 elite defensive line recruits to come here....oh, you may want to check out what's currently going on with our recruiting.
 

UgaBlows

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I have a feeling that ND will never play nice and join a conf., It sounds to me like our best hope is for the Big10 and SEC to divy up the B12 and ACC. Personally i would prefer to land in the SEC, it would be cool to play our old rivals regularly again. Yes we will get our brains beat out some but we will get our wins here and there against Bama, UGA, AU, Fl, LSU etc. and there’s truly not much better than that. Our recruiting will improve because kids want to play in the sec, the money will def help, and there are plenty of crappy to mediocre teams in the sec that are very beatable Year in and year out. Give our coaches the money and extra recruiting clout the sec brings and i say we can be very much in the mix.
 

Technut1990

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You can keep your negativity about GT. I have more faith in GT than you do. You act like GT can't be competitive when our history has shown we can be competitive and with periods of excellence: GT beat Auburn under Chan Gailey (CHAN GAILEY!!!) when Auburn was predicted to win the National Championship. We won the national title in 1990. We've been to two Orange Bowls in the just the last 12 years. We've gone to 4 ACCCG in since 2006. How many "factory" type programs have we beaten since the modern age of P5 conferences? We've actually only had 4 losing seasons since 2000. Alabama has had 3 losing seasons since 2000, Texas has had 4. The point is, teams you view has unbeatable to GT won't always be that way...but you don't get to find out if you're not on the field.

The fact is, the ACC is not going to be the "ACC" soon. GT fans who think we can remain status quo and be fine are putting their heads in the sand. We gave up fighting on the field by leaving the SEC, and it cost us decades of wandering the desert. We turned away from the B1G, and now we struggle to break even and compete because we barely scrape by with revenue when life would have been MUCH easier with an extra $15-20 million a year from the B1G.


@Northeast Stinger mentioned that leaving the SEC and turning down the B1G was only a mistake in hindsight (which I disagree with...but that's a totally different discussion), but let's talk about the here and now. We're at a point where GT is standing on a rock by the edge of the ocean and everyone can see two giant waves heading towards us. GT can either stand on that rock and do nothing and get destroyed by those waves, or we can be proactive, paddle out to meet those waves, and enjoy the glory that comes with surfing those giant monsters. There will always be risks involved in change. The outcome of GT standing idly by is far more disastrous for our program than joining a more competitive league that helps our bottom line...and also give us the chance of relevancy. Make no mistake, GT is headed the way of UCF, Tulane, Cinncinnatti if we get the opportunity to join a new look SEC or B1G and we turn it down. If you're happy with almost ZERO chance of making the playoffs, and living the life of reduced revenue have nots, then turning down the SEC or B1G is the move GT fans like you should take. Keep in mind, if you think GT attendance is bad now, wait until GT is no longer part of a meaningful conference. That's not a move I would make because that's giving GT zero chance before we even get on the field. No thanks.

i have been saying Tech has to be aggressive and not stand around since this topic was started.

but aggressive dosent mean aggressively jumping into a schedule in which we face perineal top10 teams every year on every schedule.

most fans look at this years schedule and hold their breath when it has ND, Georgia and Clemson on it yet you want Georgia, Clemson, Alabama, LSU, Texas A&M, Florida, Florida St, Tenn, Texas, Oklahoma and/or others on it ?

im not being “negative” I’m being realistic. I guess you’d consider me negative if I didn’t want to swim with crocs on a hot day.

Until The Admin at Tech shows a willingness to invest in sports at a high level we should stay out of the deep water. If and only if Tech is willing to increase its AD budget significantly should we be playing in the SEC now or when the new version of it is revealed. Yes you are right we did beat Auburn several times when we played them but unfortunately Auburn isn’t a regular opponent, the one we can judge performance against is Georgia, we are 19-46 against them in the last 65 years ? We’ve beaten them 4 times in the last TWO DECADES and Georgia can’t even win more than their division in the SEC, once every 10 years, As it is. We’ve won 10 or more games 5 TIMES since 1955 ! We aren’t ready to play the SEC !

As a lifelong unapologetic Tech fan I’m not negative on them, I just pefer they be where they can win AT THEIR CURRENT level of monetary commitment to themselves that’s all. Like I said it’s one thing to be in the SEC it’s totally another to get The Hill to spend that money on sports AT Tech. Promise me there will be a change in mindset WITHIN the school toward sports and then ok cool let’s go play with all the big boys, until then Tech better evaluate themselves realistically before they declare where they should be.

we currently have folks who are giving CGC time to win, how long will he be allowed to coach if he’s in the SEC losing ? We ain’t gonna just show up and start beating Bama or any of the others Just because we are there. How many years do you give Tech to start consistently being competitive with LSU or Florida ? How many losing seasons will you happily watch until you get pissed at The Hill for taking sports profits and putting it into education over the very profit mechanism ? What you could justifiably say I’m skeptical of is any real and meaningful change of heart by admin towards sports. I’m not talking new turf or uniforms. I’m talking real paid for by Tech change. Sure the school is in the midst of facility improvements but would that had happened without donors ? The reason donors were needed and have been for everything is because The Hill hasn’t really committed wholeheartedly to sports. T Stan is a breath of fresh air but I doubt he is the only one who wants big time commitment. We just came off an AD who didn’t even know where his office was and another relatively recent one who publicly said we would never win more than 7 or 8 consistently. IF anyone in an SEC teams admin said that they would be gone within the week.

im high on Tech, I’m proud it’s a standard of excellence but I recognize that it has never put real resources into sports. Coach after coach has had to beg for everything from facility remodels to coaching pay raises, it’s been a constant negotiation for basic things. The players have to walk 4-5 blocks from their locker room to the practice field which is utterly ridiculous. High school players walk out onto the practice field from their locker ! We can’t even get them Gators so they can ride back after practice ? Tech needs a total revamp of thinking Not just a new conference. If Tech wants to be elite then it needs to think elite !

I have full faith that Tech can join any conference it wishes to, if it dedicates itself monetarily to upscale expectations which in the landscape is required, but when and only when it actually dedicates itself will it be worthwhile. WE are predicted at 3-7 wins this year, most predict around 3, as we slowly improve in football. CGCs is in his third year, what do you think our high mark for wins would be if we were in the SEC as it is now ?

im for Tech aggressively looking at options that improve competition and make money but I’m not for committing to a 15 year strategic improvement plan. If The ACC can improve competition through moderate expansion it gives Tech time to improve and win, Winning is why The SEC wants Texas and Oklahoma otherwise they would have scalped Duke and Wake. I don’t think we can survive as anything other than a doormat right now in the SEC. We better learn how to swim before we jump in, by that I mean we better change our mindset up and down the internal workings of the school not just on the field.

had Tech been willing to put money into their sports programs over the decades we wouldn’t be in this situation, we would be picking which conference offer we wish to take OR we would be in the room when Clemson, NC and Duke are dictating which way The ACC goes. There’s a reason Clemson released a statement of commitment to The ACC the other day and it’s because they run it by virtue of their product, the product is built by admin commitment to sports not because they had Watson or Lawrence. Show a willingness to win and players will come, it’s how CGCs has survived, via his desire.
 
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boger2337

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Rumors of Big 12 and Pac 12 merger leaving out Kansas and Texas Tech....

ACC should merge with SEC and drop Wake and Duke. Duke without coach K will be a disaster, and their football team is about the same. Wake is too small of a school to be moved up. I'd even say drop cuse, but they may want the terrible NE market even though no one up there cares about college ball.
 

Techster

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i have been saying Tech has to be aggressive and not stand around since this topic was started.

but aggressive dosent mean aggressively jumping into a schedule in which we face perineal top10 teams every year on every schedule.

most fans look at this years schedule and hold their breath when it has ND, Georgia and Clemson on it yet you want Georgia, Clemson, Alabama, LSU, Texas A&M, Florida, Florida St, Tenn, Texas, Oklahoma and/or others on it ?

im not being “negative” I’m being realistic. I guess you’d consider me negative if I didn’t want to swim with crocs on a hot day.

Until The Admin at Tech shows a willingness to invest in sports at a high level we should stay out of the deep water. If and only if Tech is willing to increase its AD budget significantly should we be playing in the SEC now or when the new version of it is revealed. Yes you are right we did beat Auburn several times when we played them but unfortunately Auburn isn’t a regular opponent, the one we can judge performance against is Georgia, we are 19-46 against them in the last 65 years ? We’ve beaten them 4 times in the last TWO DECADES and Georgia can’t even win more than their division in the SEC, once every 10 years, As it is. We’ve won 10 or more games 5 TIMES since 1955 ! We aren’t ready to play the SEC !

As a lifelong unapologetic Tech fan I’m not negative on them, I just pefer they be where they can win AT THEIR CURRENT level of monetary commitment to themselves that’s all. Like I said it’s one thing to be in the SEC it’s totally another to get The Hill to spend that money on sports AT Tech. Promise me there will be a change in mindset WITHIN the school toward sports and then ok cool let’s go play with all the big boys, until then Tech better evaluate themselves realistically before they declare where they should be.

we currently have folks who are giving CGC time to win, how long will he be allowed to coach if he’s in the SEC losing ? We ain’t gonna just show up and start beating Bama or any of the others Just because we are there. How many years do you give Tech to start consistently being competitive with LSU or Florida ? How many losing seasons will you happily watch until you get pissed at The Hill for taking sports profits and putting it into education over the very profit mechanism ? What you could justifiably say I’m skeptical of is any real and meaningful change of heart by admin towards sports. I’m not talking new turf or uniforms. I’m talking real paid for by Tech change. Sure the school is in the midst of facility improvements but would that had happened without donors ? The reason donors were needed and have been for everything is because The Hill hasn’t really committed wholeheartedly to sports. T Stan is a breath of fresh air but I doubt he is the only one who wants big time commitment. We just came off an AD who didn’t even know where his office was and another relatively recent one who publicly said we would never win more than 7 or 8 consistently. IF anyone in an SEC teams admin said that they would be gone within the week.

im high on Tech, I’m proud it’s a standard of excellence but I recognize that it has never put real resources into sports. Coach after coach has had to beg for everything from facility remodels to coaching pay raises, it’s been a constant negotiation for basic things. The players have to walk 4-5 blocks from their locker room to the practice field which is utterly ridiculous. High school players walk out onto the practice field from their locker ! We can’t even get them Gators so they can ride back after practice ? Tech needs a total revamp of thinking Not just a new conference. If Tech wants to be elite then it needs to think elite !

I have full faith that Tech can join any conference it wishes to, if it dedicates itself monetarily to upscale expectations which in the landscape is required, but when and only when it actually dedicates itself will it be worthwhile. WE are predicted at 3-7 wins this year, most predict around 3, as we slowly improve in football. CGCs is in his third year, what do you think our high mark for wins would be if we were in the SEC as it is now ?

im for Tech aggressively looking at options that improve competition and make money but I’m not for committing to a 15 year strategic improvement plan. If The ACC can improve competition through moderate expansion it gives Tech time to improve and win, Winning is why The SEC wants Texas and Oklahoma otherwise they would have scalped Duke and Wake. I don’t think we can survive as anything other than a doormat right now in the SEC. We better learn how to swim before we jump in, by that I mean we better change our mindset up and down the internal workings of the school not just on the field.

had Tech been willing to put money into their sports programs over the decades we wouldn’t be in this situation, we would be picking which conference offer we wish to take OR we would be in the room when Clemson, NC and Duke are dictating which way The ACC goes. There’s a reason Clemson released a statement of commitment to The ACC the other day and it’s because they run it by virtue of their product, the product is built by admin commitment to sports not because they had Watson or Lawrence. Show a willingness to win and players will come, it’s how CGCs has survived, via his desire.

Couple of things here:

1. Scheduling doesn't work the way you're suggesting it does. GT isn't going to face a murderer's row of Georgia, Clemson, Alabama, LSU, Texas A&M, Florida, Florida St, Tenn, Texas, Oklahoma every year. Not even 'Bama and Clemson survives that unscathed.

2. The reason why GT hasn't been able to afford putting money into our programs is the poor decisions of leaving the SEC and turning down the B1G. Our program has lost HUNDREDS of millions of dollars due to the decision of leaving the SEC, and we are losing 15-20+ million each year since we turned down the B1G. When the new SEC and B1G come to fruition, the already big gap between the SEC/B1G and everyone else will get even bigger. It doesn't matter how much better GT or the ACC gets, that gap will not close...Texas, OU, and ND are NOT joining the ACC. If you don't see that, and if you don't see the tectonic shift in college sports coming where GT could be on the outside looking in by not joining the B1G or SEC (most likely not going to happen given the UGA issue) then I don't think you need to worry about anything. A change is coming regardless if you think it is or not...GT can either be a part of winners, or we can become of the losers living off table scraps like teams outside of the P5 are now. We've already made 2 poor decisions that hurt our program, let's not let the 3rd poor decision doom it.
 

Oakland

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Techster, Georgia Tech is not going to join the SEC because the SEC does not want or need us. Tech cannot leave the ACC to join the B1G because the Grant of Rights money that we would owe would be too much to over come. Clemson or FSU would have to pay the Grant of Rights money if they wanted to leave too. The ACC is still strong even if Texas and Oklahoma decide to leave the Big 12 for the SEC. Texas is no longer a great football program, but they do bring viewers. I think the ACC should have discussions with UCF before someone else gets them into their conference. They bring fans.
 

Techster

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Techster, Georgia Tech is not going to join the SEC because the SEC does not want or need us. Tech cannot leave the ACC to join the B1G because the Grant of Rights money that we would owe would be too much to over come. Clemson or FSU would have to pay the Grant of Rights money if they wanted to leave too. The ACC is still strong even if Texas and Oklahoma decide to leave the Big 12 for the SEC. Texas is no longer a great football program, but they do bring viewers. I think the ACC should have discussions with UCF before someone else gets them into their conference. They bring fans.

I've already said GT wouldn't be able to join the SEC (due to UGA) unless the ACC merges with the SEC (also most likely not happening). GOR is not in perpetuity, and there are always ways out of it though most likely the only feasible way monetarily would be to let it expire in 2036....15 years from now. 15 years comes fast...TX A&M has been in the SEC almost 10 years now!

If the dominos start falling the way it looks, does anyone think the ACC won't get poached in 2036...or sooner if the economics makes it feasible to buy out of the GOR (B1G or SEC can still help another school buy out the rights)? There's already a big gap between the ACC and SEC/B1G. It's only going to get bigger. Do you think Clemson or FSU want to play catchup to Alabama/Ohio State/LSU/Michigan in resources every year when they could have the chance to get on equal footing? It's not personal towards the ACC, it's just survival.
 

GTRanj2

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Rumors of Big 12 and Pac 12 merger leaving out Kansas and Texas Tech....

ACC should merge with SEC and drop Wake and Duke. Duke without coach K will be a disaster, and their football team is about the same. Wake is too small of a school to be moved up. I'd even say drop cuse, but they may want the terrible NE market even though no one up there cares about college ball.
I hate this, but honestly in the grand scheme of things it doesn't change much. Even if conferences merge, your still only playing a limited percentage of that conference in a year. Schedules for the most part (keyword most) wouldn't change all that much unless pods are implemented.

Then to the Kansas and Dukes of the world, they would be like really good mid major basketball programs, which is basically what they are now. I'm willing to bet most Duke and Kansas fans don't care about football.
 

WreckinGT

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Couple of things here:

1. Scheduling doesn't work the way you're suggesting it does. GT isn't going to face a murderer's row of Georgia, Clemson, Alabama, LSU, Texas A&M, Florida, Florida St, Tenn, Texas, Oklahoma every year. Not even 'Bama and Clemson survives that unscathed.

2. The reason why GT hasn't been able to afford putting money into our programs is the poor decisions of leaving the SEC and turning down the B1G. Our program has lost HUNDREDS of millions of dollars due to the decision of leaving the SEC, and we are losing 15-20+ million each year since we turned down the B1G. When the new SEC and B1G come to fruition, the already big gap between the SEC/B1G and everyone else will get even bigger. It doesn't matter how much better GT or the ACC gets, that gap will not close...Texas, OU, and ND are NOT joining the ACC. If you don't see that, and if you don't see the tectonic shift in college sports coming where GT could be on the outside looking in by not joining the B1G or SEC (most likely not going to happen given the UGA issue) then I don't think you need to worry about anything. A change is coming regardless if you think it is or not...GT can either be a part of winners, or we can become of the losers living off table scraps like teams outside of the P5 are now. We've already made 2 poor decisions that hurt our program, let's not let the 3rd poor decision doom it.
Even if we were making 20 million more a year we would barely be in the top 40 in revenue, and that is assuming others didn't start making that money as well. Our money problems are beyond TV contracts. I tend to agree with you that we need to find as way to join the haves in the new college football world, but its hard to imagine we won't be a bottom feeder unless something drastically changes.
 

GTRanj2

Helluva Engineer
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1,209
Couple of things here:

1. Scheduling doesn't work the way you're suggesting it does. GT isn't going to face a murderer's row of Georgia, Clemson, Alabama, LSU, Texas A&M, Florida, Florida St, Tenn, Texas, Oklahoma every year. Not even 'Bama and Clemson survives that unscathed.

2. The reason why GT hasn't been able to afford putting money into our programs is the poor decisions of leaving the SEC and turning down the B1G. Our program has lost HUNDREDS of millions of dollars due to the decision of leaving the SEC, and we are losing 15-20+ million each year since we turned down the B1G. When the new SEC and B1G come to fruition, the already big gap between the SEC/B1G and everyone else will get even bigger. It doesn't matter how much better GT or the ACC gets, that gap will not close...Texas, OU, and ND are NOT joining the ACC. If you don't see that, and if you don't see the tectonic shift in college sports coming where GT could be on the outside looking in by not joining the B1G or SEC (most likely not going to happen given the UGA issue) then I don't think you need to worry about anything. A change is coming regardless if you think it is or not...GT can either be a part of winners, or we can become of the losers living off table scraps like teams outside of the P5 are now. We've already made 2 poor decisions that hurt our program, let's not let the 3rd poor decision doom it.
Another reason Tech hasn't faired well over the last decade is that even some of our own fan base bought into the negative angles given by outsiders to bring the program down. This led to a dramatic reduction in program funding internally over that time span in relation to the rest of CFB. It's sad but in 08 Tech had one of the largest football budgets, by the end of CPJ's tenure, Duke had more "assistants" on the football sideline then we did.
It was an arms race and GT bought into the external negativities and stigma when we should have embraced what we were. WE DROPPED THE BALL FUNDING WISE.
CGC would have had a much easier time now as well had we done that.

Like one poster above said, getting into a mega conference isn't the solution, it's a life raft, it's on Tech to fund more into the program in addition to that if we want to improve our chances of returning to the elite.
 

bobongo

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3,049
WVU just turned into the old guy at the bar buying every girl a drink hoping it impresses someone to go home with them...

I think they belong in the ACC, even if the academics are lacking. They're right in our footprint, and they're a fish out of water in the Big 12.
 

Techster

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14,131
Even if we were making 20 million more a year we would barely be in the top 40 in revenue, and that is assuming others didn't start making that money as well. Our money problems are beyond TV contracts. I tend to agree with you that we need to find as way to join the haves in the new college football world, but its hard to imagine we won't be a bottom feeder unless something drastically changes.

So now imagine a world where GT makes even less money. When 2036 comes around, and ACC teams are leaving for other conferences, the ACC won't be worth what it is now to media companies. If you think we have revenue problems now, just wait until the college sports world moves on while GT has our head stuck in the sand.

What happens when GT is with the "haves" is up to us. GT has never raked in revenue like the factories...relatively speaking, it was the same way when we won a national title in 1990. Just look at Clemson's historical record before Dabo Swinney:


You could say GT was every big as good at Clemson (if not better) before 2011. What changed? Good leadership, a good HC that recruited well, and confluence of events that worked in Clemson's favor. There's no reason, with the extra $20 million that we can't hire another Bobby Ross/Friedgen/O'Leary team or find another coach with an equivalent system like Paul Johnson's. GT just needs to make good decisions and stop getting in our own way.
 

Techster

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Messages
14,131
Another reason Tech hasn't faired well over the last decade is that even some of our own fan base bought into the negative angles given by outsiders to bring the program down. This led to a dramatic reduction in program funding internally over that time span in relation to the rest of CFB. It's sad but in 08 Tech had one of the largest football budgets, by the end of CPJ's tenure, Duke had more "assistants" on the football sideline then we did.
It was an arms race and GT bought into the external negativities and stigma when we should have embraced what we were. WE DROPPED THE BALL FUNDING WISE.
CGC would have had a much easier time now as well had we done that.

Like one poster above said, getting into a mega conference isn't the solution, it's a life raft, it's on Tech to fund more into the program in addition to that if we want to improve our chances of returning to the elite.

100%
 

GTRanj2

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,209
..
I think we are at an inflection point program wise.

We have been rid of that program killer in MBOB. We have a replacement AD who loves this place and is fully committed to the success of the program.

HC wise, we have a guy who really also loves this place and wants to be here. He's struggles the first couple seasons, but he's also done something many didn't think possible (myself included) which is recruit. He's got two factory level DT's committed at the moment which, again, few believe possible and the hardest position to get. Whatever misgivings I have about him as a HC, he's shown it is possible to still recruit at a high level here (and hopefully sustainably).

Now it's on Tech to fund, without it, all these efforts are in vain.
 
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