Everybody wants to hold the baby. Nobody wants to go through labor.

GTcanWINagain

Banned
Messages
152
Would you care to wager on that? It's a guaranteed loss for you...
Empty as in relatively…not zero fans. It is going to depend on Collins if he is retained. If you are betting on Collins being successful, I am not going to wager against the Jackets to win! However, I do fully believe that more GT fans would be in stands for a new HC in 2022 than Collins - unless (A) he miraculously defeats UGA or (B) somehow takes UGA to OT!
 

smokey_wasp

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,437
Empty as in relatively…not zero fans. It is going to depend on Collins if he is retained. If you are betting on Collins being successful, I am not going to wager against the Jackets to win! However, I do fully believe that more GT fans would be in stands for a new HC in 2022 than Collins - unless (A) he miraculously defeats UGA or (B) somehow takes UGA to OT!

You lose the bet because we open vs Clemson, not Ole Miss. :p
 

Augusta_Jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,172
Location
Augusta, Georgia
Empty as in relatively…not zero fans. It is going to depend on Collins if he is retained. If you are betting on Collins being successful, I am not going to wager against the Jackets to win! However, I do fully believe that more GT fans would be in stands for a new HC in 2022 than Collins - unless (A) he miraculously defeats UGA or (B) somehow takes UGA to OT!


1637640038621.jpeg
 

BleedGoldNWhite21

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
925
Self-proclaimed: means you yourself are stating that you are something. I guess I could have used "self-professed". Nothing weird about it. It's not positive, it's not negative. It just is. You say you're a huge GT fan. That's a self-proclaimed fan. You could have googled it yourself if you really wanted to know. Then you wouldn't have to say you didn't even know what it was.

To the rest, you've been trashing our team all season. Then you turn around and say you wish it weren't true because you're a huge GT fan. I don't doubt you're a huge GT fan; I just think you're a lousy huge GT fan. That's my opinion based on your posting throughout the season.

I'm not living in denial. I see positive things on the field and I see negative things on the field. I see progress and I see lack of progress. I think there will be changes in the off-season, but it's not the off-season, so I'm going to hold my opinion about changes (for the most part) until after the season (which will be a week from yesterday). You've seen fit to poormouth our team all season and I just think that's lousy. I don't always disagree with you, just your timing.

Being critical doesn’t make you a lousy fan.
 

randerto

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
110
Location
Alpharetta
Anyone with a pulse and some common sense can see this will not end well - we may have to collect the data points you are referring to, but I doubt those data points will change what we are seeing from a player development and in-game strategy/discipline standpoint. For someone to improve, they have to do things differently, usually significantly different. They also have to realize there is a need to change, a reason to "fix" something. I could be wrong, but I really don't believe CGC thinks there are actual chronic coaching issues. Yes, he would probably agree there are "acute" issues, but I don't believe he sees them as chronic and ongoing.

My response to your post? Meh. We need a new start asap (change at the top), and the new start needs to excite enough of our recruits to hold as many as possible.
Anyone realistically thinking a change at the top should occur is speaking purely from emotion and doesn't understand the reality of the existing contract and related Athletic budget considerations. It would be completely crazy and impractical to fire CGC after this season - it absolutely won't happen.

Plus, we should give him at least one more year anyway to see how the record looks with his Sophomores and Juniors playing (remember he's only had two of his own recruiting classes so his kids are all Freshman and Sophomores this year). I'm not counting the one-year temporary upper classman portal guys as they are temp gap-fillers - can't build a program with temp gap-fillers. Pastner's mantra of "get old and stay old" also applies here...

A more practical approach has been suggested by many on this board. Gotta make one or more D staff changes as the defensive players have mostly regressed this season from a player development perspective in addition to showing no ability to play as a team. Give our O staff another year to see if they can improve the Oline depth and overall performance. Oline was the clear weakness this season - exacerbated by injuries.

The path seems clear. Gotta keep CGC at least one more year. Replace one or more of our D staff and keep our O staff on a short leash for next year.
 

LibertyTurns

Banned
Messages
6,216
He must like O’Leary!
Most of us look favorably on that period. I missed the B* L* years and returned to O’Leary and Fridge tearing it up. Did not even really know we had an implosion until Chan arrived and people started talking about it. We overlook the fact he ditched us, then there’s the rest of his history now. I wouldn’t say I defend him, but his football record was pretty damn decent by GT standards and we were entertaining. On top of that he had the good fortune of taking on Donnnan, one of the mutts dumbest coaches ever. IIWII.
 

GTcanWINagain

Banned
Messages
152
Anyone realistically thinking a change at the top should occur is speaking purely from emotion and doesn't understand the reality of the existing contract and related Athletic budget considerations. It would be completely crazy and impractical to fire CGC after this season - it absolutely won't happen.

Plus, we should give him at least one more year anyway to see how the record looks with his Sophomores and Juniors playing (remember he's only had two of his own recruiting classes so his kids are all Freshman and Sophomores this year). I'm not counting the one-year temporary upper classman portal guys as they are temp gap-fillers - can't build a program with temp gap-fillers. Pastner's mantra of "get old and stay old" also applies here...

A more practical approach has been suggested by many on this board. Gotta make one or more D staff changes as the defensive players have mostly regressed this season from a player development perspective in addition to showing no ability to play as a team. Give our O staff another year to see if they can improve the Oline depth and overall performance. Oline was the clear weakness this season - exacerbated by injuries.

The path seems clear. Gotta keep CGC at least one more year. Replace one or more of our D staff and keep our O staff on a short leash for next year.
Awesome! I am happy to see Collins is on this website!
Collins, do you have an explanation for all of these record-setting losses that you continue to compile? Also, I wanted to point out that you make more money per win than Nick Saban!
 

smokey_wasp

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,437
Anyone realistically thinking a change at the top should occur is speaking purely from emotion and doesn't understand the reality of the existing contract and related Athletic budget considerations. It would be completely crazy and impractical to fire CGC after this season - it absolutely won't happen.

Plus, we should give him at least one more year anyway to see how the record looks with his Sophomores and Juniors playing (remember he's only had two of his own recruiting classes so his kids are all Freshman and Sophomores this year). I'm not counting the one-year temporary upper classman portal guys as they are temp gap-fillers - can't build a program with temp gap-fillers. Pastner's mantra of "get old and stay old" also applies here...

A more practical approach has been suggested by many on this board. Gotta make one or more D staff changes as the defensive players have mostly regressed this season from a player development perspective in addition to showing no ability to play as a team. Give our O staff another year to see if they can improve the Oline depth and overall performance. Oline was the clear weakness this season - exacerbated by injuries.

The path seems clear. Gotta keep CGC at least one more year. Replace one or more of our D staff and keep our O staff on a short leash for next year.

I think this is right.
 

BCJacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
525
I don't realistically expect us to fire CGC this year. Unless some big donors get mad enough to stroke a 7 figure check and Tech isn't usually that fanbase.

But I don't agree with this 'his players are underclassmen' argument. The problem isn't a lack of talent. It's not like watching a good G5 or FCS program play against a P5 school. We're a bad football team. We clearly had more 'talent' than NIU. But we play piss poor fundamental football. Neither coordinator being able to get a play call made and in without a timeout or delay of game is unacceptable for middle school level football. Inexplicable play calls when they do get in. Complete lack of clock or game management. Completely blown assignments play after play isn't talent, it's lack of coaching. I was willing to excuse 'year 0' and 'covid year'. But there's no more excuses, this is a terribly run program.

We have some good players, but they're being positioned for failure. CGC needs to take a real hard long look in the mirror and make some changes in his staff and his personal approach if he wants the results to change. If he's not willing, then TStan needs to step in, one way or another.
 

UgaBlows

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,860
I don't realistically expect us to fire CGC this year. Unless some big donors get mad enough to stroke a 7 figure check and Tech isn't usually that fanbase.

But I don't agree with this 'his players are underclassmen' argument. The problem isn't a lack of talent. It's not like watching a good G5 or FCS program play against a P5 school. We're a bad football team. We clearly had more 'talent' than NIU. But we play piss poor fundamental football. Neither coordinator being able to get a play call made and in without a timeout or delay of game is unacceptable for middle school level football. Inexplicable play calls when they do get in. Complete lack of clock or game management. Completely blown assignments play after play isn't talent, it's lack of coaching. I was willing to excuse 'year 0' and 'covid year'. But there's no more excuses, this is a terribly run program.

We have some good players, but they're being positioned for failure. CGC needs to take a real hard long look in the mirror and make some changes in his staff and his personal approach if he wants the results to change. If he's not willing, then TStan needs to step in, one way or another.
I think a lot of our inadequacies have got to be coming from the unusual practice routines that Collins has implemented, and all the player love he gives. the AD Really needs to put his foot down on all this BS ”fun” football program that CGC is trying to do and get back to hardnosed practices. Football is not supposed to be fun, at all.....except after a win.
 

BCJacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
525
I think a lot of our inadequacies have got to be coming from the unusual practice routines that Collins has implemented, and all the player love he gives. the AD Really needs to put his foot down on all this BS ”fun” football program that CGC is trying to do and get back to hardnosed practices. Football is not supposed to be fun, at all.....except after a win.

I agree. Although, I do think there's a way it could work, CGC as cheerleader in chief. If the assistants were laying down the law. Fast, positive and high energy aren't bad things. But discipline and teamwork are essential in football.

I get the impression Dabo is mostly a good cop at Clemson. But they definitely hold players accountable.

I know Coach Choice is hard on his guys and that may be the one group that's performing. I get the impression Thacker is fully bought into the clown juice and that flows down to the players.
 

UgaBlows

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,860
I agree. Although, I do think there's a way it could work, CGC as cheerleader in chief. If the assistants were laying down the law. Fast, positive and high energy aren't bad things. But discipline and teamwork are essential in football.

I get the impression Dabo is mostly a good cop at Clemson. But they definitely hold players accountable.

I know Coach Choice is hard on his guys and that may be the one group that's performing. I get the impression Thacker is fully bought into the clown juice and that flows down to the players.
I have seen Dabo chew player’s *** out on the sideline before, Collins needs assistants that will do that, but on really big FU’s he needs to show who’s the boss and i’m not sure he has that in himself
 

iopjacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
438
I just finished reading this thread. Josh H's post of the CEO and The Three Envelope pegs Collins’ plight and the board’s feelings pretty well. A slim consensus appears to be that Collins should immediately open envelope No.2 (reorganize) with a growing group wanting him to skip a step to envelope No. 3.

The CEO and the Three Envelopes
 

LawTalkin Jacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
216
I agree that we need a new DC for sure. Manny Diaz available? I also think that the criticism of Brent Key may be valid, as our Oline is our biggest issue IMO. Brent Key hasn't seemed to recruit stud Oline guys and the guys we have don't seem to be performing over expectations. I am sure Key is doing good stuff and I am not saying fire him, but criticism may be valid. if Key were to leave for another job to be replaced by Dan Mullen as "asst. Head Coach" that might be a good deal. Mullin can rehab here instead of Alabama and if Collins gets fired, Mullen could step in. Or, if Key stays, I think a new OC might be in order regardless, but I don't have any other great ideas. THWG
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
6,688
There’s the science part of the experiment, and the engineering part of the experiment. There’s also a question whether there is more than one hypothesis going:
1. Recruiting is the largest component of NCAA football success, and GT has underemphasized it
2. There is a new wave of players today, and they respond to training differently. Practices need to be updated to fit a new culture

1 and 2 are correlated in Collins’ mind—you have to update what training is to attract the next generation of stars. We should think about how correlated they are.

Let’s look at the first hypothesis. For the science part, the question might be “how big a percentage of team success is occupied recruiting success?”

THESE ARE NUMBERS, AND THEY’RE FAKE, but I’m just breaking down the ideas. I also just wrote down some numbers and saw what I got—there wasn’t a plan.

Let’s say we have the following breakdown of components

ComponentWeight
Recruiting0.4
S&C0.2
Practice0.2
Gameday coaching0.1
Scheme0.1

Recruiting isn’t the majority in this breakdown, but it’s the biggest single component. How much can you skimp on the other components to build up recruiting?

Let’s plug in some numbers and see what happens. Let’s say this is Collins over the last three years

ComponentWeightScoreWeighted Grade
Recruiting0.40.80.32
S&C0.20.750.15
Practice0.20.50.1
Gameday coaching0.10.10.01
Scheme0.10.50.05
Total0.63

Let’s say this is Johnson (we could do Gailey too):


ComponentWeightScoreWeighted Grade
Recruiting0.40.60.24
S&C0.20.50.1
Practice0.20.750.15
Gameday coaching0.110.1
Scheme0.10.90.09
Total0.68

In this one, Scheme comes out ahead. I rated recruiting an 0.6 for Johnson because “he recruited to his scheme”. I could have moved it lower. I also think the low grade in recruiting isn’t a zero. I gave Collins an 80% because he’s recruited really well for GT, but he’s not getting us in the top 20-top 15 range, and that’s where the 90’s are.

Anyway, from a science perspective, we can simultaneously prove that recruiting matters more than anything.
From an engineering perspective, we need to boost recruiting at Tech, while also we can’t neglect the other components.

If you look at the same idea, the “throw all your weight behind scheme” can turn out even worse.

=================

The second hypothesis—have a flashy practice and an cool culture, and players will come—hasn’t been proven out yet. For that, I’d say we need to get the top 20 classes. We’ve gotten close, but no cigar.
Even if I count the transfers, we’ve gotten a 5* transfer, but we haven’t gotten gamechangers on the field. (I like McGowan, but Athens got a game changing CB and a game changing TE just last year. We’re not in the big leagues in the transfer portal, either)

=================

This doesn’t even mean it’s a bad experiment. It can also mean that Collins hasn’t set it up as well as he needed to. He had a level to hit in recruiting—but did he hit it?

Also, if he were to bring his "low grades" up, he'd be ahead, even without scheme.
 
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LibertyTurns

Banned
Messages
6,216
I just finished reading this thread. Josh H's post of the CEO and The Three Envelope pegs Collins’ plight and the board’s feelings pretty well. A slim consensus appears to be that Collins should immediately open envelope No.2 (reorganize) with a growing group wanting him to skip a step to envelope No. 3.

The CEO and the Three Envelopes
CGC should have known he had a potential problem with his assistants half way thru Year 1. Maybe he felt at that point time was needed to mature the staff, ok I could buy that. At end of year 1 it was gut check time. Year 2 needed to show the staff could manage the team capably, there would be talent gaps obviously but staff competence should have been guaranteed after a year in the seat. Half way thru Year 2 there were more warning signs. Ok, he deludes himself by blaming Covid as if GT was the only one dealing with it. Maybe he thinks we’re special and that excused Year 2? Onto year 3 and we’re all wanting the question marks to disappear. Game 1 we got whipped. If the alarm bells weren’t ringing loud and clear, that should have been the wake up call. No more staff incompetence. It looked like maybe that was the case after Clemp and UNC. Hey some goodwill. Then the thumping by Pitt. They are a solid team but we got spanked. We pull off a miracle at Dook and that should have been year another warning sign. The Vag teams were close games but let’s be real, we we lucky to get 3 huge breaks late in the first game but the second was just a demoralizing loss. We had no chance to win. da U and BC, more moral almost victories but losing seemed to be not very upsetting to the staff. ND just demolished us and this weekend may not be pretty.

I can understand those who want him to jettison the staff, give him another year. I’m in favor of getting rid HC & all of them except the keepers. How would we know CGC picked decent assistants, he failed first time? How can we tell he can run this team and organize his staff when he’s shown no capability of doing so?

How can Tstan stand by and act like all is well?

In my line of work if you watch your organization implode and do not act, you are the problem. we got this at multiple levels- AD, HC, OC/DC, etc.
 
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