ESPN: ACC to meet about changing men's hoops narrative

gameface

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It seems to me that if you assume that the other P5 conferences got more teams, and higher rankings than they should have had; and I agree with that premise, than judging if the premise is true based on how they performed in a tournament where they received more spots, and higher spots is in itself faulty.
 

CEB

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Good info. Concerns over who should be the last 4 in vs the first 4 out really are not very important to the overall tournament most years. There are some exceptions of course as Cuse demonstrated a few years ago.

Miami's losses to GT and FSU were major red flags in their seedings and likely dropped them from a 3 seed to a 5 seed. Can't have 2 very bad losses and be a top 16 seeded team.
Agree... and that’s kind of where I arrived too. Just the culmination of what i posted a couple of days ago relative to the notion of ACC being slighted.
The funniest part to me is that the committee claims the BIG should’ve gotten another team (Rutgers) before entertaining Clemson or UNC.
Bottom line... If you don’t want to be slighted, play your way off the bubble, right?
 

leatherneckjacket

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What are people's thoughts about John Ruiz, the billionaire LifeWallet CEO, dumping millions of $$$ into Da U's sports?

Welcome to the new way of buying college sports teams.
 

glandon1960

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What are people's thoughts about John Ruiz, the billionaire LifeWallet CEO, dumping millions of $$$ into Da U's sports?

Welcome to the new way of buying college sports teams.
I said NIL was going to get out of control when they announced it because there are no (next to no) rules and guardrails. Allows exactly what you said - for a deep pocket alum to impact a coach's ability to recruit - sign players that school probably would not have before NIL.

In 3-5 years, you may well end up with a group of 25-30 teams in basketball that have enough funding that they are basically competing amongst themselves for the best players - and if a player develops at another school, they can poach him with $$$. Unlike football, smaller (less money) schools can compete with the big names in basketball - may go deep in NCAA a given year when things go right, but won't consistently be able to - only exception has been Gonzaga and what is status of their NIL these days (I do not know).

Laranaga can coach - but I do not believe he would have the roster he does this year without large NIL $$$ - Pack said wanted X in NIL to sign anywhere. Wong asked for significant NIL, etc.

Supposedly, our AD has money lined up to let GT compete .... CDS referred to a salary cap (which implies he'll have X$ to spend on players through NIL). If they get to at least average $$$ for ACC team - they should be able to compete reasonably well. Largest payroll will not guarantee you win it all, coaching/chemistry/injuries/egos/etc still come into play. Worth nothing CJP has $0 NIL to work with last couple years - no way to know what he would have been able to do with enough NIL $$ - but you have to assume talent coming in would he more highly rated, and he likely lands some more highly regarded transfers. All he had to promise recruits was chance to play in the ACC, great school, and player development.
 

cpf2001

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
778
What are people's thoughts about John Ruiz, the billionaire LifeWallet CEO, dumping millions of $$$ into Da U's sports?

Welcome to the new way of buying college sports teams.
GT loves to talk about graduate salaries, millionaire status, etc. I'm not a graduate so does that mean I get to blame all of y'all for not ponying up or reaching billionaire status? ;)
 

iceeater1969

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8,916
GT loves to talk about graduate salaries, millionaire status, etc. I'm not a graduate so does that mean I get to blame all of y'all for not ponying up or reaching billionaire status? ;)
Yes.
Gt students get shafted, get
out, and as grads get corporate job, get praised, get promoted, survive layoffs, get pay raises, learn to be frugal, retire comfortably. They learn the joy of receiving regular income.

Too few are like other college grads who get shafted at thier job, tell old corporate to stickit, scramble for job, start a comercial business, fail and start again, again then some make it very very big They learned the joy of making spending big money.

Gt s millionaires are the mountain that batt must climb. I have faith that Tech men will rally to the cause.
 

Peacone36

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I said NIL was going to get out of control when they announced it because there are no (next to no) rules and guardrails. Allows exactly what you said - for a deep pocket alum to impact a coach's ability to recruit - sign players that school probably would not have before NIL.

In 3-5 years, you may well end up with a group of 25-30 teams in basketball that have enough funding that they are basically competing amongst themselves for the best players - and if a player develops at another school, they can poach him with $$$. Unlike football, smaller (less money) schools can compete with the big names in basketball - may go deep in NCAA a given year when things go right, but won't consistently be able to - only exception has been Gonzaga and what is status of their NIL these days (I do not know).

Laranaga can coach - but I do not believe he would have the roster he does this year without large NIL $$$ - Pack said wanted X in NIL to sign anywhere. Wong asked for significant NIL, etc.

Supposedly, our AD has money lined up to let GT compete .... CDS referred to a salary cap (which implies he'll have X$ to spend on players through NIL). If they get to at least average $$$ for ACC team - they should be able to compete reasonably well. Largest payroll will not guarantee you win it all, coaching/chemistry/injuries/egos/etc still come into play. Worth nothing CJP has $0 NIL to work with last couple years - no way to know what he would have been able to do with enough NIL $$ - but you have to assume talent coming in would he more highly rated, and he likely lands some more highly regarded transfers. All he had to promise recruits was chance to play in the ACC, great school, and player development.
When a governing body that can’t effectively enforce the rules they have in place for players receiving money expands and legalizes the avenues in which those players receive money and then tries to effectively enforce what is now basically a free market you can easily predict how that is going to go. The incompetence of the NCAA is utterly astounding.

To me, this tournament is an aberration. As programs figure out how to manipulate NIL you’re going to see the transfer market shift in favor of the power six. The players will start selecting Oregon State and Boston College over high mid majors who likely won’t have resources to pay them.

That’s just my expectation anyways. Again, I am not against players receiving money but I’d rather have an economist design the program than a 19yr old drunken sailor that hasn’t been off the boat in months.
 

AUFC

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To me, this tournament is an aberration. As programs figure out how to manipulate NIL you’re going to see the transfer market shift in favor of the power six. The players will start selecting Oregon State and Boston College over high mid majors who likely won’t have resources to pay them.
I know these guys are all ultra competitive and think they can be the star of the team Freshman year, but it's not realistic for most guys committing to a P6 school. I'm wondering if any Top 150-type prospects will go put up 20ppg at a mid-major their Freshman year so they can cash out in the transfer portal.
 

mstranahan

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One of the things they didn't really consider (I don't think) when they put NIL in place is the new advertising / promotion model of most consumer brands. Influencers now command massive amounts of sponsorship $$ for their online presence on various platforms. One of my daughter's friends is a TikTok personality. She's 16 and she made $400k last year. She isn't alone and I think it's fair to say she's pretty far down the pecking order in terms of earnings. If you look at how many followers these athletes have, it makes sense that Nike, Coke, etc would pay them 6 figures to have their brands featured on their social media presence.

I don't like what NIL and the portal have done to college sports, but I don't think you can put the genie back in the bottle.
 

Peacone36

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One of the things they didn't really consider (I don't think) when they put NIL in place is the new advertising / promotion model of most consumer brands. Influencers now command massive amounts of sponsorship $$ for their online presence on various platforms. One of my daughter's friends is a TikTok personality. She's 16 and she made $400k last year. She isn't alone and I think it's fair to say she's pretty far down the pecking order in terms of earnings. If you look at how many followers these athletes have, it makes sense that Nike, Coke, etc would pay them 6 figures to have their brands featured on their social media presence.

I don't like what NIL and the portal have done to college sports, but I don't think you can put the genie back in the bottle.
That last part is where the NCAA lowered the bar with their incompetence. They were in such a hurry to put a victory on the board following the Northwestern Union talk, prep talent using the G-league as a springboard to the NBA and college basketball personalities railing on how toothless they are when dealing with corruption that they didn’t consider how they were eroding the very fabric of what makes people prefer their product over the NBA.
 

slugboy

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Staff member
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10,755
One of the things they didn't really consider (I don't think) when they put NIL in place is the new advertising / promotion model of most consumer brands. Influencers now command massive amounts of sponsorship $$ for their online presence on various platforms. One of my daughter's friends is a TikTok personality. She's 16 and she made $400k last year. She isn't alone and I think it's fair to say she's pretty far down the pecking order in terms of earnings. If you look at how many followers these athletes have, it makes sense that Nike, Coke, etc would pay them 6 figures to have their brands featured on their social media presence.

I don't like what NIL and the portal have done to college sports, but I don't think you can put the genie back in the bottle.
It’s hard to say they put NIL in place. The NCAA lost a court case, badly. That court case said you can’t have free labor, call it “amateur”, and block outside income.


I’m not sure whether to call what they did in response “malicious compliance”, “laziness”, or “incompetence”. It’s unplanned and unorganized and not thought through. The NCAA could have set up salaries, could have implemented a real shared NIL program with EA Sports and athletic wear, but instead they both said “it can’t be pay for play”, and then that’s exactly what they enabled.

It’s as if they thought that, if they implemented NIL badly enough that they could get rescued by Congress or local legislatures. If so, it’s an interesting strategy and we’ll see how it works out.

As far as influencer income, it’s hard to find good stats. You can find comparisons of average TikTok income vs median US income, but that’s not a fair comparison—it’s apples and oranges.

TikTok payments and views are really murky. Instagram is more transparent in their payments and seems to pay more on average. But from what I can find, your 16-year old neighbor is earning way above average, which is somewhere between $50k and $150k for a sponsored influencer, and most aren’t even sponsored.

The income isn’t a nice bell curve—it’s a power distribution where almost all the money goes to a few. That’s why the average income doesn’t tell you much—it’s like the average income with 9 of us and Warren Buffet—you can take 5 people out or add 20 in and the average hardly moves, unless one of the people is Buffet.

Your neighbor worked herself into the right spot.

Also (and I think you would agree), these athletes aren’t actually working as influencers; they’re posing as influencers to get paid for playing ball. In contrast, for the female gymnasts making money as influencers, no one cares how they do in gymnastics—their main gig is selling tight clothes and cosmetics.

Here’s some information about the income distribution of influencers where someone could get data:


If I can dig it up, there’s an article where most of the women on OnlyFans are making very little money (one version is here, but there’s a better article out there: https://au.finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/how-much-only-fans-creators-really-make-001225631.html)

TL;DR: the athletes aren’t even really doing NIL; it’s pay for play.
 

orientalnc

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I have never understood why the NCAA didn't simply alter the Grant in Aid agreement to include a clause that stated the grant was the sole revenue source for the SA. If the SA agrees to that, he/she doesn't have a claim for more revenue.
 

Peacone36

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I think as it progresses it could die a little as local businesses aren’t going to see much or any ROI.

There was an instance in CBB this season where a dealership provided a vehicle for a player, the player wrecked the vehicle and asked for a replacement. The dealership declined and the kid immediately entered the portal. He then rescinded, and entered again later.

Eventually it’s just going to be boosters with envelopes again. Not sure if there are tax advantages provided through NIL but IMO the only money changing hands should go through the schools and they provide an increased flat stipend for the players from the school. You could then possibly include royalties from the NCAA that would be some sort of profit sharing from tournament titles and NCAA appearances.

Of course I have no idea if any of that is actually feasible. I certainly don’t think you’re putting an end to the bag man.
 

Root4GT

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I have never understood why the NCAA didn't simply alter the Grant in Aid agreement to include a clause that stated the grant was the sole revenue source for the SA. If the SA agrees to that, he/she doesn't have a claim for more revenue.
Scholarships are not considered revenue. Also any one college could have done away with your proposed contract and they would have a gigantic recruiting advantage. Other colleges would immediately follow. Now we are back to the NCAA trying to regulate all colleges and we know how that ended in court.
 

orientalnc

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Scholarships are not considered revenue. Also any one college could have done away with your proposed contract and they would have a gigantic recruiting advantage. Other colleges would immediately follow. Now we are back to the NCAA trying to regulate all colleges and we know how that ended in court.
The NCAA is a voluntary membership organization. Colleges agree to follow the rules to which the membership writes.
 

Root4GT

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The NCAA is a voluntary membership organization. Colleges agree to follow the rules to which the membership writes.
And if several schools don't agree then what? Why would those on top agree with rules that hurt their current position? The big revenue schools have a big advantage now. They are not going to forfeit that advantage to be nice guys. A rule like that could work at Division 2 level but not at high end Division 1. The NCAA isn't going to try and operate without the SEC, B1G and other P5 big boys.
 

g0lftime

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When a governing body that can’t effectively enforce the rules they have in place for players receiving money expands and legalizes the avenues in which those players receive money and then tries to effectively enforce what is now basically a free market you can easily predict how that is going to go. The incompetence of the NCAA is utterly astounding.

To me, this tournament is an aberration. As programs figure out how to manipulate NIL you’re going to see the transfer market shift in favor of the power six. The players will start selecting Oregon State and Boston College over high mid majors who likely won’t have resources to pay them.

That’s just my expectation anyways. Again, I am not against players receiving money but I’d rather have an economist design the program than a 19yr old drunken sailor that hasn’t been off the boat in months.
Some of the schools ( Georgetown, Creighton, Villanova, etc) that focus on basketball have alums with very deep pockets. It's a lot easier to pay NIL to a basketball team of maybe 10 kids than a FB team of 85. Those can compete in a NIL world for BB.
 

MWBATL

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One of the things they didn't really consider (I don't think) when they put NIL in place is the new advertising / promotion model of most consumer brands. Influencers now command massive amounts of sponsorship $$ for their online presence on various platforms. One of my daughter's friends is a TikTok personality. She's 16 and she made $400k last year. She isn't alone and I think it's fair to say she's pretty far down the pecking order in terms of earnings. If you look at how many followers these athletes have, it makes sense that Nike, Coke, etc would pay them 6 figures to have their brands featured on their social media presence.

I don't like what NIL and the portal have done to college sports, but I don't think you can put the genie back in the bottle.
no wonder fast food joints can’t find workers!
 
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