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Democrat Primary Debates

Discussion in 'The Swarm Lounge' started by GT_EE78, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. gtg970g

    gtg970g Helluva Engineer

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    Intersex frequency is much lower than the 1.7% frequently cited by LGBTQ activists. Per this paper it is closer to 0.018%. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12476264
    It is a very low occurrence and most transgender individuals are not intersex. It is also emerging that it is best to leave the genitalia of individuals born intersex alone so they can grow and develop and make a decision as a mature adult as to what gender they want to present as. But for some reason it's acceptable to give kids hormones because they feel like their assigned gender does not align with how they feel.
     
    ramblinwreckguru likes this.
  2. Supersizethatorder-mutt

    Supersizethatorder-mutt Helluva Engineer

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    And the American Psychiatric Association used to consider it just that ... a mental disorder. But in recent years, when anyone from that field of science made that claim, they were shunned at the very least, and often attacked.
     
  3. Supersizethatorder-mutt

    Supersizethatorder-mutt Helluva Engineer

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    And as far as I am concerned that is child abuse on the part of the parents who fall for this crap.
     
  4. JacketRacket

    JacketRacket Helluva Engineer

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    The most widely cited research study I've seen quoted by conservative articles (I read a decent amount of conservative media) is the williams institute one: https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf

    I'll quote parts of it's conclusions:
    So there's a significant link between social/family acceptance and suicide, discrimination, as well has how well they 'pass'. So there's a huge link between supporting transgender people and suicide.

    There's a study here (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19473181) that indicates a marked improvement in quality of life with 80% of people post-treatment saying it significantly improved.

    So, support (both medically and personally) and acceptance are heavily linked to reducing suicidal ideation as well as improving quality of life. Yes, the rates are higher in general, but if there are other ways to improve it among people with the affliction, I'd like to know.
     
    armeck likes this.
  5. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    So what - we were talking about people who self identify as transgender anyway.
     
  6. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    Yep, its a real shame. These people are going through life living a fake identity. Imagine how hard that is if you're a man living like a woman and how bad you're treated when you try to go use a public bathroom with a bunch of little girls. Trying to play on a women's sports team when you're a man. Who wants to deal with that. If you admit and know that you have gender dysphoria, live like a woman, but know you're really a man, imagine how much less stressful life will be. When someone knows their truth, embraces and loves themself, the outcome has got to be better.
     
  7. JacketRacket

    JacketRacket Helluva Engineer

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    The APA also considered homosexuality to be a mental disorder, it's not infallible and the reason there are versions are so we can improve on it.

    I'll quote APA's current website on this (https://www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transgender)
    And to note, the ICD-11 did remove it as a mental disorder since this website was made.
     
  8. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    Fake Science. How can you say many transgender people don't find their lives distressing or disabling? 50% attempt suicide. So its a huge overwhelming majority to say the least. Not every person with Autism is distressed or disabled, but most are - its called a disorder too. Silly.
     
  9. gtg970g

    gtg970g Helluva Engineer

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    Clearly many transgender individuals do suffer from a significant distress or disability due to their disability. Their statement that because not everyone suffers to the necessary extent would be like saying anxiety or depression are not real disorders because not every anxious/depressed person experiences significant distress or disability.
     
  10. JacketRacket

    JacketRacket Helluva Engineer

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    Reconciling the two is key, I think we agree on that. But you can't really fix the brain (that's what shock therapy tried to do and it failed miserably), it's easier to adjust the body. I'll ignore the bathroom thing since that's really a straw man (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13178-018-0335-z)
     
  11. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    Well the bathroom illustration is just an example of 1 of a great many things in life that will lead to big distress and anxiety if you don't know the truth of your own identity. If you are biologically a male, identify as a female, and know you are really a male, then you'd know you shouldn't try to compete in women's sports. Bathroom, locker room, sports - whatever - pick your daily life example of things that will impact you negatively.

    My opposition, and that of others, for things like bathrooms is not necessarily related to safety. Although there's always that risk. The more men you put in women's bathrooms, the higher the risk of crime. Maybe its not much. But its also obscene. We don't walk around the streets naked for a reason. We don't share male and female roommates in college for a reason. We don't share bathrooms with the opposite gender for a reason. There are basic decencies and norms in society.
     
  12. JacketRacket

    JacketRacket Helluva Engineer

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    That's why Gender Dysphoria was established as a term, to differentiate between being trans and having clinical distress, to quote the APA:
    Classifying all trans people as having a mental disorder is dimunitve towards people with mental health and really adds nothing productive.
     
  13. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    Transgender people think they're the opposite gender that they really are.

    If I told you I'm 6'6" tall, but I'm really 5'8", and I'm dead serious about how I feel, you're damn right I'd have some sort of mental disorder. It doesn't mean these people need to be shunned from society or discriminated against or made fun of. But if you have a major false sense of reality, that is a mental disorder. At least according to scientific definitions it is.
     
  14. gtg970g

    gtg970g Helluva Engineer

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    Shock therapy, more commonly known as ECT (electroconvulsive therapy), is actually a proven and currently used treatment for major depressive disorder.
     
  15. JacketRacket

    JacketRacket Helluva Engineer

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    I never really understood the argument that the only thing stopping men from raping women was opportunity, and the study I showed doesn't really back that up. I'd like to see empirical evidence (and not a one-off infowars article) or a study showing otherwise. 8% of trans people, on the other hand, have been physically assaulted in public places of accomodation according to this survey: https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/resources/NTDS_Report.pdf with over half saying they've been verbally harassed or disrespected.


    The shock therapy I was referring to was more the aversion type therapies (or conversion therapy), where they would electrocute people as they showed them images of gay acts or feminine things in order to associate pain with those things instead of arousal/comfort. Generally, it's considered barbaric and would often have detrimental effects http://www.drdoughaldeman.com/doc/ScientificExamination.pdf
     
  16. GT_EE78

    GT_EE78 Helluva Engineer

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    upload_2020-1-16_16-46-50.jpeg
     
  17. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    Yea that's why I said my opposition was independent of any crime. A grown man sitting in a stall next to a small girl and both of them have their pants down. I mean, that's just creepy.

    But there is crime, that's undeniable. Bad things happen.
     
  18. MWBATL

    MWBATL Helluva Engineer

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    Really...now we are obsessing over a small fraction of a percent of Americans?

    Wake me up when we get back to relevance...
     
  19. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    Mike Bloomberg is now running a commercial at a high level of repetition here in S.C.

    It states:
    1) Trump is against insuring pre-existing conditions (False). And
    2) Bloomberg will lower the cost of healthcare (Impossible to guarantee).

    Seems like an odd commercial. We learned from Obama that despite anybody’s best intentions, you can’t guarantee what a price of something will do. I can’t imagine his commercials will do anything different than Steyer’s commercials - they just burn money and don’t affect polling levels.
     
  20. armeck

    armeck Ramblin' Wreck

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    Cool, we've moved on from homophobic slurs and have settled into the good ole' welfare queen trope. Was wondering when that would show up (and from a rightwinger with the initials KKK? AWESOME.)

    Hey can you do something about Mexicans next?
     

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