DACA, dreamers, juveniles, border wall debate

Discussion in 'The Swarm Lounge' started by A Love Supreme, Jun 16, 2018.

  1. A Love Supreme

    A Love Supreme Helluva Engineer

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    You don't have a problem with Trump claiming it's Democrats fault for his policy on separating immigrant families at the border?
     
  2. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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    You don’t blame Obama for doing the same? For 7 years longer than Trump has?

    Nice change of subject I guess....worthy of its own thread.....but not germane to this discussion.
     
  3. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    Don’t ever ask me to justify anything Trump says or does LOLOLOL.

    Parents get separated every day when they get arrested. I’m not sure it’s good public policy to grant illegal immigrants special rights Americans don’t have. When a single parent here gets arrested, Social Servuces takes the kid and they find a relative or a friend for them to stay or live with. We’re doing the same thing. It’s a hard time for the kid and not their fault.
     
  4. LibertyTurns

    LibertyTurns Helluva Engineer

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    Oh my, a politician making misleading political statements. Where have I seen that before?

    Let’s start with the basics:
    A. Are the people at the border breaking the law? If so, why is this ok?
    B. What happens to anyone else’s kids who break the law and find themselves detained/jailed? Do they allow prisoners to bring their families to jail with them?

    By the way, immigration policy is not really a liberal/conservative issue. We have immigration laws. The government is responsible for enforcing them. If you don’t like the law, change it. There’s a process in the country for doing just that. In the interim, enforcement of the law is the expected and singularly lawful standard.
     
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  5. MWBATL

    MWBATL Helluva Engineer

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    Trump irritates you because he is dishing back at you the same stuff using the same technique that Democrats have used for years...no, decades. Democrats have screamed about Republican attempts to control costs as "cutting budgets" when in fact it has merely been reducing the growth in spending. Democrats have accused Republicans of not caring about people dying when health care changes are discussed. Lying to make a political point has been a hallmark Democrat strategy for a long time. Now Trump has co-opted your approach. See how it feels?
     
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  6. WreckinGT

    WreckinGT Helluva Engineer

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    Obama never enacted any zero tolerance policies that would separate basically any families crossing illegally (and some legally). Both he and President Bush had the option of going this route. Both found it too inhumane to do so. Even Trump refused to do it for some time. We can all thank Steven Miller for this.
     
  7. WreckinGT

    WreckinGT Helluva Engineer

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    On B, at least they can live with other family members and can see their parents on visits. The border kids just never get to see their parents again except maybe a Skype call every two weeks or so. They see no other family, and no one where they stay is allowed to touch them, hug them, or console them in any way, including social workers and pediatricians. In some of these cases no one even speaks the same language as them. All because their parents were so awful for trying to get them to a better life.
     
  8. ramblinwreckguru

    ramblinwreckguru Ramblin' Wreck

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    Too inhumane to take kids away from non citizen criminals? Got it.
     
  9. WreckinGT

    WreckinGT Helluva Engineer

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    If you want to use the word criminals to equate violent murderers with people who are just trying to get themselves and their families out of awful situations then be my guest. They should go through the lawful way of doing things. Nobody is arguing that. Taking their kids away for months (and lying to them when they do it) is a completely inhumane reaction. There are much better ways to handle that.
     
  10. LibertyTurns

    LibertyTurns Helluva Engineer

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    So do a lot of other criminals. What makes these criminals different?

    Secondly, if there’s all these do-gooders in the US that have so much compassion for the illegals and their children, why don’t they adopt them and move them into their houses to provide them with a better life? Why do you expect me & my neighbors to provide for a bunch of criminals?

    Lastly, the US is such an uncompassionate nation so why don’t they all stay in Mexico or elsewhere where they could have a better life since they get treated so much better on the other side of the border? Or maybe you all could go to whever they came from and spend your money down there improving their paradise?

    Look what’s happening in liberal Euroland now. Socialist Italy’s had enough, Germany’s on the verge of revolt & UK’s reeling in rampant crime from these people. If these criminals were productive members of society instead of the criminals they are, countries would be welcoming them with open arms. Fact of the matter is they do not obey laws & they wreak havoc wherever they go. I’m sure there’s a few that don’t fall into this category but it’s the exception rather than the rule.
     
  11. WreckinGT

    WreckinGT Helluva Engineer

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    Nobody is expecting you you provide for anyone. I am fine with these families being kept in family detention centers and deported when it is appropriate to do so. We aren't doing that anymore. We are taking children away from parents, stripping them of psychological support, and likely ruining them for life, all because Miller is convinced that this will be a great deterrent to others. Over 4600 mental-health professionals have signed a petition asking Trump to stop this. His own Secretary of Homeland Security almost quit when the policy was being moved forward. Everyone knows it is inhumane.

    Also, not all of these people are coming from Mexico. Actually, there are more Mexican immigrants going back to their country right now than coming in.
     
  12. LibertyTurns

    LibertyTurns Helluva Engineer

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    If there was a wall they’d be on the preferred side of the border & the US wouldn’t have a problem. Why doesn’t the benevolent socialist Mexico build housing so these people have a comfortable place to stay waiting for legal entry into the US?
     
  13. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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    Thanks for taking the bait and admitting the laws haven’t been enforced for the past couple decades. Blame the parents for making the choice to break our laws. Blame Congress for enacting the laws. These families rolled the dice and crapped out. Lesson learned. Maybe others will benefit by learning their hard lessons.

    If the families want the kids sent back home. I’m in favor of expediting that. The government of Mexico will have to step up as well though to make it happen.
     
  14. LibertyTurns

    LibertyTurns Helluva Engineer

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    Maybe Mexico can rent the dog cages Obama used for the illegals?
     
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  15. WreckinGT

    WreckinGT Helluva Engineer

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    Thanks for showing again that you don't know what the laws actually are or how they have always been enforced. Also, thanks for showing us that your support for someone having an R next to their name is now greater than basic human empathy. Lesson Learned, give me a break. A lesson that will traumatize thousands of kids for life and will likely create more criminals in the future. A lesson that has already lead to at least one man taking his own life in one of these centers. What a great lesson we are teaching.
     
  16. WreckinGT

    WreckinGT Helluva Engineer

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    They are already putting kids in cages at times. Now they are building tent cities though, because tents in the middle of Texas in the summer are going to be great living conditions.
     
  17. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Helluva Engineer

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    Oh stow it. I support policies not parties. Maybe try that sometime yourself you might find it....liberating.

    Maybe you can rant at Congress to change the laws? Maybe if the left would compromise to secure the borders a compromise more to your liking could be made. But no. You want it your way only and cry a river when you don’t get your way.

    Build a wall, secure the borders, enforce immigration law, shut down illegal “sanctuary cities” and you protect these poor souls from this dire harm you proclaim.

    Better be willing to compromise or pay more dental bills from gnashing your teeth.

    Moderator needs to move the immigration debate to a separate thread....this is a classic derail from a prodigious troll.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2018
  18. ramblinwreckguru

    ramblinwreckguru Ramblin' Wreck

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    I have zero empathy for those who cross our sovereign border illegally. They are criminals just like those who steal with the excuse of providing for their family.
     
  19. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    WreckinGT and others still won’t answer the question. Why is it okay to separate American citizen parents from their kids while being arrested and/or jailed, but not non-citizens? It’s a pathetic double standard. It’s pure trolling and fake outrage.
     
  20. bwelbo

    bwelbo Helluva Engineer

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    Instead of bringing terrorists into the US to face trial, he just murdered them from drones without any trial or due process. He even did this to at least 1 US citizen that I am aware of.

    Also, you do realize that kids aren't just put into tent cities and left to starve right? There is a process by which family and or friends in the US are sought out to take care of the child, or they can join the parents if freed or sent back home. This fake outrage is humorous.
     

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