Crazy World We Live In

ramblinwreckguru

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
808
Location
Savannah, GA
My own general, overall opinion of cops is positive and respectful, but it doesn't negate the fact that a few bad apples need to be held accountable and culled from the basket.
I don't know why this has to be an all-or-nothing issue for so many people.

I don't think the "all-or-nothing" applies to the majority of us (me and you) but to the media and the police hate groups out there. If the good that police do was reported with the same passion and vigor as the bad apples are, we're not having this conversation. If you ask anyone on the street, the current liberal narrative is "cops are bad". The overall view of the police is bad right now even though the vast majority of what they do is good, and that is what may drive many of the "good ones" out of the business.
 

SnidelyWhiplash

Helluva Engineer
Messages
15,477
I don't think the "all-or-nothing" applies to the majority of us (me and you) but to the media and the police hate groups out there. If the good that police do was reported with the same passion and vigor as the bad apples are, we're not having this conversation. If you ask anyone on the street, the current liberal narrative is "cops are bad". The overall view of the police is bad right now even though the vast majority of what they do is good, and that is what may drive many of the "good ones" out of the business.

Love you as a swarm member, but I really wish you would stop the 'liberal' this and that. For one, it increases the ability of threads and comments getting nuked. But two, it probably turns off the people on that side of the aisle from actively participating in these conversations.
 

Milwaukee

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,093
Location
Milwaukee, WI
My own general, overall opinion of cops is positive and respectful, but it doesn't negate the fact that a few bad apples need to be held accountable and culled from the basket.
I don't know why this has to be an all-or-nothing issue for so many people.
It doesn’t. So why do people like you only post the negative cop stories? Don’t answer that.
 

SnidelyWhiplash

Helluva Engineer
Messages
15,477
Kermit and Miss Piggy are no more.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,642
It doesn’t. So why do people like you only post the negative cop stories? Don’t answer that.
I'll answer it by pointing out it isn't true. Here is what I posted some pages back. You'll note I stuck up for cops in both the recent Chicago and Ohio shootings:

"In reporting of the police shooting in Ohio, the outlets I've seen (CNN, MSNBC) made clear that the girl had a knife, and was prepared to use it. They had freeze frames of her apparently preparing to plunge the knife into someone just before she was shot. They showed pictures of the knife lying on the ground. I thought the reporting of this incident was very fair. Also, they made it clear that the boy who was shot by police in Chicago had a gun in his hand a split second before he was shot. They had experts on who made clear that the officer did not have time to process the fact that he tossed the gun before he pulled the trigger."

Here's another case where I pointed out two good cops intervening to stop another cop's excessive force:

"Saw on TMZ tonight (my wife watches it) three cops subduing a suspect on the ground. When one of them starts punching the woman (yes, a woman) on the ground who is clearly under control, the other two intervene to stop him. That's what we need more of - good cops stepping up."

I've also stated that I have respect for our local cops here in my town. Many cops have exhibited heroism, and officers save people's lives every day. I've also stated they have a tough job. But amidst the avalanche of blanket praise for all cops I see on these pages, yes I do try to balance it with the reality that we do have a problem in that the bad ones have been protected for far too long, and unfairly mar the reputations of the vast number of cops who are doing the job right. And you, yourself have pointed out the same thing.
 

MWBATL

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,840
My own general, overall opinion of cops is positive and respectful, but it doesn't negate the fact that a few bad apples need to be held accountable and culled from the basket.
I don't know why this has to be an all-or-nothing issue for so many people.
I completely agree with you. I do think many people react to what they perceive as an "all-or-nothing" reaction from the "other side" (as in both sides do this...)
 

Milwaukee

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,093
Location
Milwaukee, WI
I'll answer it by pointing out it isn't true. Here is what I posted some pages back. You'll note I stuck up for cops in both the recent Chicago and Ohio shootings:

"In reporting of the police shooting in Ohio, the outlets I've seen (CNN, MSNBC) made clear that the girl had a knife, and was prepared to use it. They had freeze frames of her apparently preparing to plunge the knife into someone just before she was shot. They showed pictures of the knife lying on the ground. I thought the reporting of this incident was very fair. Also, they made it clear that the boy who was shot by police in Chicago had a gun in his hand a split second before he was shot. They had experts on who made clear that the officer did not have time to process the fact that he tossed the gun before he pulled the trigger."

Here's another case where I pointed out two good cops intervening to stop another cop's excessive force:

"Saw on TMZ tonight (my wife watches it) three cops subduing a suspect on the ground. When one of them starts punching the woman (yes, a woman) on the ground who is clearly under control, the other two intervene to stop him. That's what we need more of - good cops stepping up."

I've also stated that I have respect for our local cops here in my town. Many cops have exhibited heroism, and officers save people's lives every day. I've also stated they have a tough job. But amidst the avalanche of blanket praise for all cops I see on these pages, yes I do try to balance it with the reality that we do have a problem in that the bad ones have been protected for far too long, and unfairly mar the reputations of the vast number of cops who are doing the job right. And you, yourself have pointed out the same thing.
I can respect that.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,992
If 90+ % of police interactions are positive, shouldn't 90+ % of the press be positive too? Not seeing it.
Do you see apartment buildings on the news that have friendly neighbor gatherings, or do you see apartment fires? There is no reason for news programs to show routine things. They will show weather and stock results, but that is because it impacts people and people pay attention. I have seen the occasional report on local news about an officer who does a good job, or who is stopping residential speeders to protect the neighborhood children, or who stopped a lady for an expired tag and ended up giving her homeless family a meal and guiding them to a local shelter. Those types of stories are very rare, but it is because those human interest types of stories are filmed and cataloged for nights when there isn't enough blood and guts to satisfy the length of the news program.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,642
If 90+ % of police interactions are positive, shouldn't 90+ % of the press be positive too? Not seeing it.
Not in that ratio, but ABC and NBC evening news have with regularity run stories about police heroism and community service beyond the call of duty.

But generally speaking, the news isn't about what goes on regularly every day - it's about aberrations in the fabric of normality. You don't read about planes that don't crash.

It's like the old saw - If a dog bites a man it isn't news, but if a man bites a dog, it is.
 

ramblinwreckguru

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
808
Location
Savannah, GA
Not in that ratio, but ABC and NBC evening news have with regularity run stories about police heroism and community service beyond the call of duty.

But generally speaking, the news isn't about what goes on regularly every day - it's about aberrations in the fabric of normality. You don't read about planes that don't crash.

It's like the old saw - If a dog bites a man it isn't news, but if a man bites a dog, it is.

I think the biggest difference between your examples and what is going on with the police hate is that people don't believe planes crash every day or that a lot of men are biting dogs. However, there are a lot of people in this country that have been convinced by the media that most police officers are bad.
 

bobongo

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,642
I think the biggest difference between your examples and what is going on with the police hate is that people don't believe planes crash every day or that a lot of men are biting dogs. However, there are a lot of people in this country that have been convinced by the media that most police officers are bad.
That's true, and the biggest reason is that in the past, when police abuse has occurred, it has been swept under the rug too many times - by police departments, prosecutors, and juries. It just went on too long with scarcely any accountability at all.

I do not agree with those who despise police in general, but I do understand where their animus came from. And it's a shame that instances of police abuse were allowed to fester until we've gotten to this point. The problem isn't that there are a few bad cops - there are some bad people in every profession and we can't expect police to be any different. The problem is that too little was done to hold them accountable or weed them out. I hope that's going to change now. And I don't want it to go too far in the other direction, which is why I'm for maintaining qualified immunity.
 

ramblinwreckguru

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
808
Location
Savannah, GA
That's true, and the biggest reason is that in the past, when police abuse has occurred, it has been swept under the rug too many times - by police departments, prosecutors, and juries. It just went on too long with scarcely any accountability at all.

I do not agree with those who despise police in general, but I do understand where their animus came from. And it's a shame that instances of police abuse were allowed to fester until we've gotten to this point. The problem isn't that there are a few bad cops - there are some bad people in every profession and we can't expect police to be any different. The problem is that too little was done to hold them accountable or weed them out. I hope that's going to change now. And I don't want it to go too far in the other direction, which is why I'm for maintaining qualified immunity.

Unfortunately, qualified immunity or not, the media is fueling the rage in criminalizing the police force as a whole and good people aren't likely to want to step into that when they can make a good living doing something else.
 

SnidelyWhiplash

Helluva Engineer
Messages
15,477
Unfortunately, qualified immunity or not, the media is fueling the rage in criminalizing the police force as a whole and good people aren't likely to want to step into that when they can make a good living doing something else.

The Seattle police force is down 30%. It’s happening everywhere. Who can blame them.

Here’s your butthurt clickbait 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 of the day:

People would want to know if a police officer coming to their window is protected." 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 They aren’t getting in peoples faces or making out with them. They don’t want anything from you either. This is hilarious.
 

GT_B

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
531
They had freeze frames of her apparently preparing to plunge the knife into someone just before she was shot. They showed pictures of the knife lying on the ground. I thought the reporting of this incident was very fair.
I thought your post was fine except the last line of this. I saw way more coverage and headlines that was ridiculous and not fair.

Anyone with common sense knows that the officer did what he had to do in that situation. Saving someone’s live from someone trying to take another life. Majority of the media/social media pushing a narrative are going to make their judgment without any facts. Which is what I saw predominantly across all media platforms.

I never tend to join the political discussion here, but it doesn’t matter if “majority of people” feel most cops are good people. if networks, celebrities, social media, etc are pushing the narrative that cops are evil in general, that’s what a lot people are going to believe, because sadly that’s what tons of people see everyday, who they follow, etc and begin to believe this idea. Now your seeing cops targeted on the street because of this narrative and that is extremely infuriating to me.

we are going to end “police brutality” by brutally attacking innocent cops on the street? Just like we are going to end racism and discrimination by discriminating against the race you claim to be racist. Makes a ton of sense.
 

Technut1990

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
820
I completely understand what you're saying and what the police as a whole must be feeling and thinking right now with the constant negative media barrage towards them, but I do hope like hell that there is not a mass exodus of the good cops out there as you predict. The main problem I see here is that the constant negative media frenzy as well as certain (police) hate groups do not actually represent the overwhelming majority (I hope) of American citizens.

I'd be willing to bet that if you polled everyone in the US that you would find that the overall opinion by far of cops is actually very positive and respectful. Unfortunately, the hateful and disrespectful minority is a lot more vocal and radical than the majority of us who respect and appreciate our boys (and girls) in blue. I am as guilty of this as much as anyone for not making my voice heard more in defense of the overall police organization, and I along with all the others who truly respect and appreciate our police men and women must do a much better job of supporting our local police with both our words and deeds.

12 of my friends, who I know are good people and in LE have taken their retirements in the last 2 months, 2 of them early. All of us pessimistically agree it’s just not worth it anymore. 9 of them took lower paying jobs.

there are a number of reforms that would help but overall people just don’t care until it effects them. The public cannot ignore police/crime/social issues and just pop up when the headlines hit. I firmly believe that because of the nature of the job, I could save a baby today and be persecuted as a murderer tomorrow. ( If I still did it ). Second guessing is the way of the world now.

within the job we use to talk about the guys who stayed in Crimes against kids units to long, you can tell it effects them mentally. Cops get jaded, worn down and disillusioned and the good ones struggle with the amount of cruelty, pain and death they see and deal with. No way they should have to do it 32-35 years to earn a good retirement. PTSD isn’t just a war product, most cops come out changed, some cops go bad. Yes, Some shouldn't have never been hired.

I don’t know the answer, I do think the public has to be more involved in the process but to do that they have to walk a mile in the shoes. it will never happen but everyone should have to serve in some capacity with a local emergency service agency for a year or two, just like a draft. criminal law in some form should be taught in high school, first responder liability should be taught so people understand why some of the stupid stuff is done, everyone should have to physically handcuff someone whose non compliant, and People need to see dead babies and drugged out mothers, beaten wives and shot husbands. They should know what someone looks like when they decide they ain’t going to jail and they should experience the stark thought that they may not get home tonight. Yeah I know sounds drastic but I’ll bet your butt one thing, it would change not only how cops are perceived but it would change the world.

when I was growing up I use to hear politicians say that citizens had to sacrifice in bad times in order to understand what’s at stake. We need to get back to that. Our country is losing its touch with reality. While most go shopping, play video games, chat on Facebook or dance on Tik Tok there is real cruelty going on out there, if you are blind to it or insulated from it you won’t understand it, be it bad cops or good ones fighting bad things.
 

684Bee

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,296
12 of my friends, who I know are good people and in LE have taken their retirements in the last 2 months, 2 of them early. All of us pessimistically agree it’s just not worth it anymore. 9 of them took lower paying jobs.

there are a number of reforms that would help but overall people just don’t care until it effects them. The public cannot ignore police/crime/social issues and just pop up when the headlines hit. I firmly believe that because of the nature of the job, I could save a baby today and be persecuted as a murderer tomorrow. ( If I still did it ). Second guessing is the way of the world now.

within the job we use to talk about the guys who stayed in Crimes against kids units to long, you can tell it effects them mentally. Cops get jaded, worn down and disillusioned and the good ones struggle with the amount of cruelty, pain and death they see and deal with. No way they should have to do it 32-35 years to earn a good retirement. PTSD isn’t just a war product, most cops come out changed, some cops go bad. Yes, Some shouldn't have never been hired.

I don’t know the answer, I do think the public has to be more involved in the process but to do that they have to walk a mile in the shoes. it will never happen but everyone should have to serve in some capacity with a local emergency service agency for a year or two, just like a draft. criminal law in some form should be taught in high school, first responder liability should be taught so people understand why some of the stupid stuff is done, everyone should have to physically handcuff someone whose non compliant, and People need to see dead babies and drugged out mothers, beaten wives and shot husbands. They should know what someone looks like when they decide they ain’t going to jail and they should experience the stark thought that they may not get home tonight. Yeah I know sounds drastic but I’ll bet your butt one thing, it would change not only how cops are perceived but it would change the world.

when I was growing up I use to hear politicians say that citizens had to sacrifice in bad times in order to understand what’s at stake. We need to get back to that. Our country is losing its touch with reality. While most go shopping, play video games, chat on Facebook or dance on Tik Tok there is real cruelty going on out there, if you are blind to it or insulated from it you won’t understand it, be it bad cops or good ones fighting bad things.
Again, thank you for your perspective on this.
 
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