Crazy World We Live In

ScGold

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
342
What irritates me is the HUGE. number of people who rush to judgment EVERY time there are incidents like this one....Kamala Harris' sister (iirc) went on a twitter rampage about how white men are domestic terrorists....until she found out the shooter was Syrian (oops!). But beyond that, apparently tons of people on social media leaped into judgement without facts!
Ur surprised?
 

4shotB

Moderator
Staff member
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2,523
I’ve seen people who grew up “on the wrong side of the tracks” with a single Mom, but they didn’t wallow in victim hood. They slowly and steadily made choices to improve themselves.

As I said, it's not impossible. Just that the odds are long if you start out life without parents who made appropriate choices. I used to think it was a matter of just "sucking it up" at one point in my life too. Having observed this first hand, I am relatively certain I didn't have the strength and fortitude as well. I made bad choices as a teen/young adult even with a stable and disciplined upbringing.

A lot of the issue is that there are NO ONE that these kids know or see who serve as positive role models. Most people (again based on my observations) tend to rise (or sink) to the level of their family/peers/friends. while on mission trips to Appalachia regions, I have met young people in the now defunct coal mining or manufacturing communities whose life ambition is to "get on the draw" (i.e. welfare) as that is how 90% of their community subsists. It is almost a third world region as is many of our inner city areas although many of these areas are being "reclaimed" through gentrification, though the locals are just being pushed out and not part of the reclamation.

Let me say I do agree that IT IS possible. Just that the odds are low. My hat is off to those who overcome.
 

LibertyTurns

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,577
@4shotB You’re right nothing is impossible, but there’s a handful of key components that measurably alter chances of success. Stable family (2 parents), access to education, safe environment to live in, opportunity to prosper & morality/ethics. Each element missing just makes it that much harder.
 

684Bee

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,257
A lot of the issue is that there are NO ONE that these kids know or see who serve as positive role models. Most people (again based on my observations) tend to rise (or sink) to the level of their family/peers/friends. while on mission trips to Appalachia regions, I have met young people in the now defunct coal mining or manufacturing communities whose life ambition is to "get on the draw" (i.e. welfare) as that is how 90% of their community subsists. It is almost a third world region as is many of our inner city areas although many of these areas are being "reclaimed" through gentrification, though the locals are just being pushed out and not part of the reclamation.

Let me say I do agree that IT IS possible. Just that the odds are low. My hat is off to those who overcome.
You’re right. For some, they haven’t seen any positive examples to model their behavior after. So, who breaks the cycle?

This isn’t the old caste system, where your fate was determined at birth. There is a lot of upward mobility in America.

I’ve also seen it go the other way. People that were born into wealth, created by their father, but then they squandered their life with bad choices.

We are on a GT message board mainly because of sports. So, let’s use sports as an example. What do coaches (at least good ones, anyway) preach to players after making a bad play/mistake? Forget about it. Put that play behind you. Move on to the next play and do better. Right? Essentially, it’s a message of don’t let your past ruin your today or tomorrow. I believe that’s a great message....for sports and for life.
 

4shotB

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2,523
Move on to the next play and do better. Right? Essentially, it’s a message of don’t let your past ruin your today or tomorrow. I believe that’s a great message....for sports and for life.
All salient points and I think we probably see eye to eye on most things. However, while we might say the Appalachian mom with two illegitimate kids and on pills and welfare or the inner city kid in a gang maybe living "ruined" lives....they don't. When you are the same as nearly everybody you are likely to encounter in the next day/week/year, you don't see your life as ruined. Perhaps you think you are "living your best life" along with all the others in your community. I don't see people or kids who say that their lives are ruined.

I do see (and to your point) people who don't think or understand that there is a way out. As the great philosopher(s) Pink Floyd said years ago, people spend their lives "kicking around on a piece of ground in their hometown, waiting for someone or something to show them the way."
 

4shotB

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2,523
Until our society ceases to incentivize bad parental decisions, I just don't see where children born in poverty here will ever want to do better as a whole.

I am astonished as to how much our definition of poverty has stretched over the years. I see a lot of students who consider themselves from poor families who have cell phones?! Our the "homeless" people with the signs at their usual locations who you can see talking or texting on their cell phone. I have a hard time accepting a cell phone user as living in poverty. I had grandparents who lived on a small farm with no plumbing or indoor running water until i was about 10-12. No central heat and air. I don't believe they saw themselves as poor nor did I consider them to be. in fact, we ate pretty well there as they gardened, raised chickens and pigs, had apple trees, canned vegetables, etc.
 

ramblinwreckguru

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
740
Location
Savannah, GA
I am astonished as to how much our definition of poverty has stretched over the years. I see a lot of students who consider themselves from poor families who have cell phones?! Our the "homeless" people with the signs at their usual locations who you can see talking or texting on their cell phone. I have a hard time accepting a cell phone user as living in poverty. I had grandparents who lived on a small farm with no plumbing or indoor running water until i was about 10-12. No central heat and air. I don't believe they saw themselves as poor nor did I consider them to be. in fact, we ate pretty well there as they gardened, raised chickens and pigs, had apple trees, canned vegetables, etc.

I believe the main difference between then and now is that single parent households weren't celebrated back then as they are now. Fathers weren't demonized and considered disposable back then either.
 

684Bee

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,257
I am astonished as to how much our definition of poverty has stretched over the years. I see a lot of students who consider themselves from poor families who have cell phones?! Our the "homeless" people with the signs at their usual locations who you can see talking or texting on their cell phone. I have a hard time accepting a cell phone user as living in poverty. I had grandparents who lived on a small farm with no plumbing or indoor running water until i was about 10-12. No central heat and air. I don't believe they saw themselves as poor nor did I consider them to be. in fact, we ate pretty well there as they gardened, raised chickens and pigs, had apple trees, canned vegetables, etc.
We’ve gotten so soft. Royals on TV playing victim. Lebron James playing victim.
 

Dress2Jacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
103
Location
Marietta
So here is where the rubber meets the road - the vast majority of the time, according to the law these people should not have guns. The shooter in Colorado was convicted of a violent crime and had a history of mental illness. Both are disqualifying factors in the ability to purchase a gun, yet he passed background checks. They even have a more stringent red flag law there. So clearly law enforcement either failed the background check, or they never entered the conviction and other information into the system so the background check would catch it. At some point law enforcement and the judicial system needs to be held accountable for being the root cause for why these people who shouldn't be able buy guns continue to be able to. Second to that, they prosecute hardly anybody (its a miniscule fraction of a percent) that lies on their background check form. All of this should be probable cause for a search of premises for guns. But they never do any of this. Its utterly ridiculous.
Late to the party here, but HIPAA laws create a disconnect between the law and what happens in the real world. Those in the medical profession are not going to reach out to Law enforcement and proactively put people on the "mentally ill" list and disqualify them from firearm ownership. I had a relative who was on and off suicidal for several years, and spent time at one of the metro-Atlanta mental facilities. We requested that the doctors use whatever system they had to put this relative on "the list" and the answer was basically "Hipaa. No can do."
 

SnidelyWhiplash

Helluva Engineer
Messages
15,135
Late to the party here, but HIPAA laws create a disconnect between the law and what happens in the real world. Those in the medical profession are not going to reach out to Law enforcement and proactively put people on the "mentally ill" list and disqualify them from firearm ownership. I had a relative who was on and off suicidal for several years, and spent time at one of the metro-Atlanta mental facilities. We requested that the doctors use whatever system they had to put this relative on "the list" and the answer was basically "Hipaa. No can do."

Colorado has a red flag law that allows for a pathway for people like that or family and friends to initiate a process. Also, this guy was convicted of a violent crime but apparently his conviction wasn’t put into the system since he passed the background check. Everything was in place to prevent him from legally having guns.
 

Dress2Jacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
103
Location
Marietta
Colorado has a red flag law that allows for a pathway for people like that or family and friends to initiate a process. Also, this guy was convicted of a violent crime but apparently his conviction wasn’t put into the system since he passed the background check. Everything was in place to prevent him from legally having guns.
There are lots of holes in that system that need to be fixed. Seems to me we could legislatively fix the Hipaa issue. Also, Law Enforcement needs to dot its i's and cross its t's on this. We don't need mentally ill people to have firearm access.
 
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