CPJ Tweet

[ncjacket79]

It may be whiney and obsessed with stuff like uniforms and such but I would submit that it is nothing like say, Miami's or Tennessee's fan bases. Has anyone seen a plane circling BDS with a banner demanding ANY Tech coach, much less Coach Collins be fired? Has anyone rioted and burned furniture like Tennessee did a few years ago? Apathetic is the most apt description for Tech fans but when you have won 6 games in the last two years, well, there is a remedy for this...its called winning ball games.

Our fans are cheap not necessarily apathetic. They won’t spend money unless they see a “good return”. That why you won’t see banners.

 

[Coloradojacket]

For those that understand offense.... know that friedgen's offense wasn't that far removed from a run and shoot / option. It was mostly around double options or really a spread option from under center using multiple formation looks. Due to Joe's height it was still a lot of 3 step roll and fire, and play action to option routes. Option was still the name of the game and we still utilized the wishbone at times. But hey if you line up in an offset I and run option its different than the flex bone right? If you call a receiver a slot or flanker, and put them in orbit motion then run the option out of singleback with a fake and pitch it off the end its different then flex spread right?

O'leary would have ran whatever scored points. He was a defensive coach. Friedgen tailored his offense to his kids but option was still a heavy part of his offense and the threat of option on every play from any formation froze safeties.

I will add I absolutley love friedgins offense and wish we were running it now.

And you are stating what I think I have posted 100 times. Friedgen's base play was the TO. Go back on You tube and look at the Clemson game 1999. We line up in the flex bone. Or look at the Goose play against UGA 2000. He scored on a TO.

 

[jgtengineer]

And you are stating what I think I have posted 100 times. Friedgen's base play was the TO. Go back on You tube and look at the Clemson game 1999. We line up in the flex bone. Or look at the Goose play against UGA 2000. He scored on a TO.

Yep, we also motioned to broken bone a lot under him. For those of you that don't know what that is. Its basically what we would snap the ball from in that much maligned freeze 4th down play. wishbone with a flank . Under fridge he'd just have a tight end up and then motion a running back form slot to that position in the backfield.

 

[jgtengineer]

This is what we are essentially hoping to happen now. There were certainly signs of life from offense this past season.

This coming season, I feel more confident that if they get a full spring (even if delayed a bit) and fall, CGC can install those defenses he was so good at running, and we can clean stuff up on offense. Could turn out to be surprisingly positive results next year.

Edit: I hope that once this effort to "change perception" to help boost recruiting is over, we can go back to sprinkling in more option stuff since numbers advantage is always a nice thing.

The thing is I am not sold on GC as a defensive mastermind like O'Leary. Look at where he's been to earn that reputation. I could be a defensive mastermind with the level of talent he had at Florida. MISS St had dak prescott. Its easy to be a defensive genius when you have a pro bowl level QB keeping the offense on the field and forcing opponents into being one dimensional. Hell look at what roof did at auburn when cam newton was there. Genius. Collins has had success but not really enough to be heralded as this master class DC.

Collins is a hell of a recruiter though maybe that works. But I'd argue that so far his biggest wins have been on the offensive side of the ball. Which is usually where our best recruiting happened under Johnson as well. We typically could land pretty good offensive players and also landed a lot of high secondary picks because of the option of playing something else before (Jamal Golden was given the oppurtunity ti play QB. If JT had turned out to not be a good fit you cna bet he'd have ended up a CB here but he was given the chance and he excelled. Nesbitt Ironically was projected to flip to Safety because of Renfree, etc.) Collins "position neutral" PR was about this. Grabbing these kids that see themselves as something else. Right now kids don't want to be running backs really. That's not what makes the big money in the NFL. Every kid sees a 500 million dollar contract to patrick mahomes.

 

[Ibeeballin]

The thing is I am not sold on GC as a defensive mastermind like O'Leary. Look at where he's been to earn that reputation. I could be a defensive mastermind with the level of talent he had at Florida. MISS St had dak prescott. Its easy to be a defensive genius when you have a pro bowl level QB keeping the offense on the field and forcing opponents into being one dimensional. Hell look at what roof did at auburn when cam newton was there. Genius. Collins has had success but not really enough to be heralded as this master class DC.

Collins is a hell of a recruiter though maybe that works. But I'd argue that so far his biggest wins have been on the offensive side of the ball. Which is usually where our best recruiting happened under Johnson as well. We typically could land pretty good offensive players and also landed a lot of high secondary picks because of the option of playing something else before (Jamal Golden was given the oppurtunity ti play QB. If JT had turned out to not be a good fit you cna bet he'd have ended up a CB here but he was given the chance and he excelled. Nesbitt Ironically was projected to flip to Safety because of Renfree, etc.) Collins "position neutral" PR was about this. Grabbing these kids that see themselves as something else. Right now kids don't want to be running backs really. That's not what makes the big money in the NFL. Every kid sees a 500 million dollar contract to patrick mahomes.

This is such a bad and lazy take.

 

[A Love Supreme]

This is such a bad and lazy take.

Serious question: In terms of in game coaching, what is Collins good at?

 

[swampsting]

The radio guy also suggested that Paul Johnson wasn't successful after Gailey's recruits left. Which is a pretty idiotic thing to say. It's interesting to me that we don't get much love from our own station. The only reason Collins is getting some praise right now is because he is not Paul Johnson and doesn't run a triple option. Our local sports media hated CPJ for some reason. Maybe he hurt some of these sports nerds feelings or something.

to go on a tangent - I have long said that sports talk radio, as a medium, is pretty bad. and its bottom is the Atlanta market's putrid attempts at it.
I have also said just wait, the radio hacks will turn on Collins, because they're front runners.
Listening to them the day after the Georgia loss in 2019, they didn't waste time.

If those guys, who aside from Dimino are loathe to do their own homework, would, well, do their own homework, they could go on 247sports and research Tech's recruiting to see what the offers and prospects and visits were over time.
But, they mix lazy with bad, so they never will. They have their narratives, they flagellate them incessantly and then they get free drinks somewhere.
FWIW, I'm not a Dimino fan, but I respect him because he puts in the work. I like Cellini and Mike Bell on a personal level.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

Serious question: In terms of in game coaching, what is Collins good at?

I haven’t seen much yet, honestly. But, ultimately, I think the head coach has to be the game manager & have high end assistants calling the plays. I also have my doubts about that part as well.

 

[Lotta Booze]

Serious question: In terms of in game coaching, what is Collins good at?

My untrained eye can't comment too much but I do like that he seems to be aggressive (at times) and some of the "trick" plays work out. In 2019 the fake punt dime that Harvin threw and the onside kick against uga come to mind. There are certainly examples of plays NOT working out (fake punt from opp 35ish was bad) but I tend to think that as the whole team is better those plays will work out more often. Would rather have a coach with those wild card plays than one who doesn't.

 

[jgtengineer]

This is such a bad and lazy take.

Aight. I can only go with what I've seen on the field. If you are talking about the last bit that was obviously tongue in cheek but I don't think that came across.

this part "Collins "position neutral" PR was about this. Grabbing these kids that see themselves as something else. Right now kids don't want to be running backs really. That's not what makes the big money in the NFL. Every kid sees a 500 million dollar contract to patrick mahomes."

 

[A Love Supreme]

My untrained eye can't comment too much but I do like that he seems to be aggressive (at times) and some of the "trick" plays work out. In 2019 the fake punt dime that Harvin threw and the onside kick against uga come to mind. There are certainly examples of plays NOT working out (fake punt from opp 35ish was bad) but I tend to think that as the whole team is better those plays will work out more often. Would rather have a coach with those wild card plays than one who doesn't.

I would rather have a coach that has regular plays that work than gimmicky trick plays. I'm not saying Collins only relies on those trick plays. I'm just trying to figure out as a head coach on the field, what is he good at? The Harvin fake punt was a nice play.

 

[Josh H]

I'm not familiar with the story about the PSA. What happened?

As I recall it was a PSA not to drink and drive...

 

[Ibeeballin]

Aight. I can only go with what I've seen on the field. If you are talking about the last bit that was obviously tongue in cheek but I don't think that came across.

this part "Collins "position neutral" PR was about this. Grabbing these kids that see themselves as something else. Right now kids don't want to be running backs really. That's not what makes the big money in the NFL. Every kid sees a 500 million dollar contract to patrick mahomes."

No. It was definitely the 1st part.

 

[jgtengineer]

No. It was definitely the 1st part.

Aight I was being a bit hyperbolic there as well in truth I don't think collins has proven himself an x's and o's coach that is able to overcome a talent gap with scheme. Not yet at least. I had hope he had in his first year, where we'd have flashes of great coverage and the breakdowns were obviously issues with depth or dline depletion, but this last year our safety play regressed pretty badly year 2 in his and thacker's system.

I am not saying he can't get there, what I was trying to point out was that complementary football can make a defense look better and if you get up on someone and can pin your ears back and force them to be one dimensional it make the job of the defensive coordinator much easier. Collins never stayed anywhere for even one recruiting cycle except Western Carolina and MISS State. 4 years is a good enough cycle to probably good enough to get a look at talent development. At Miss state he had Dan Mullen's offense and Dak Prescott In the years he was the standalone DC, before that he was the Co-DC which could mean he was coaching on the sidelines or in the booth no idea on the system they used in 2011 and 2012.

People seem to be heralding him as some unequable defensive coach which just doesn't have the data to back it up. I should have been clearer.

 

[Ibeeballin]

You are reaching & reaching badly

You do realize Treon Harris, Austin Appleby, & Luke Del Rio were the QBs at UF when CGC was the DC and they never avg more than 24pt/gm either season he was there and they still won 10 & 9gms, respectively, handing UGA one of its most embarrassing lost of the decades. Cmon man!

Let’s look at your theory for sec. Why did CPJ have such bad defenses then considering they often put up 30pts and held the ball for 35+ min. I mean he had Jet and Vad (who had the exact same rating as Dak)

As for data:

Pts/g (rank nationally)
‘13 23.3ppg (34th)
‘14- 21.7 (23rd)
‘15- 18.3 (11th)
‘16- 16.8 (6th)

Since you said teams like Florida are stockpiled with talent and would be good with anyone

‘20- 30.8 (74th)

Also, look at how many of DBs in the NFL.

There is a great amount you can criticize CGC on, but this is not the hill you should want to die on

 

[jgtengineer]

You are reaching & reaching badly

You do realize Treon Harris, Austin Appleby, & Luke Del Rio were the QBs at UF when CGC was the DC and they never avg more than 24pt/gm either season he was there and they still won 10 & 9gms, respectively, handing UGA one of its most embarrassing lost of the decades. Cmon man!

Let’s look at your theory for sec. Why did CPJ have such bad defenses then considering they often put up 30pts and held the ball for 35+ min. I mean he had Jet and Vad (who had the exact same rating as Dak)

As for data:

Pts/g (rank nationally)
‘13 23.3ppg (34th)
‘14- 21.7 (23rd)
‘15- 18.3 (11th)
‘16- 16.8 (6th)

Since you said teams like Florida are stockpiled with talent and would be good with anyone

‘20- 30.8 (74th)

Also, look at how many of DBs in the NFL.

There is a great amount you can criticize CGC on, but this is not the hill you should want to die on

As for CPJ's defenses I don't think anyone is going to say any of his coordinators did him any favors. Though in 2013 with Vad, Roof was basically the same at 22.2 PPG, in 2014 it was 25 ppg roughly. Both of these teams were teams where i'd say the CPJ offensive style helped keep our defensive numbers down. With 2014 being a turnover generator defense that helped as well.

For thought Florida's team defense ranking in 2013 and 2014 were 15th (in a 4-8 season!) and 19th respectively so yes Muschamp also being a defensive minded coach to a fault pretty much stacked those teams with defensive talent that was right there for Collins to come in and do something with, Muschamp also upset georgia in 2014 running all over them for 428 yards. Florida was admittedly a defensively stacked team when McElwain took over and brought collins in And collins to his credit took what he had, and did well with it.

As for DB's in the NFL. Yeah that part is impressive, gave me hope that we'd be seeing some of that DB whisperer. Can you honestly say you've seen evidence of that here? This year maybe its a covid anomaly who knows.

Some more fun stats.

Temple under Matt Rhule
2015 17th in total defense. 20 PPG
2016 11th In total Defense 18 PPG

Temple under Geoff Collins.
2017 58th Total Defense 25.3 PPG (Saw on Average 70.1 Snaps)
2018 66th Total Defense 27.1 PPG (Saw on average 79.2 Snaps)

So I think after diving into these stats and with your stats Ibe I am willing to concede that maybe Collins the Defensive Coordinator controlling only that aspect of the game and hyper focused on that and recruiting is one of the best defensive coordinators out there but Collins didn't recruit Keanu Neal, or Vernon Hargreaves. They were recruited by Will muschamp. And were juniors when collins came in and took over. So yeah I think having two probowl dbs does make the job a hell of a lot easier, then in 2016 well there was a reason all but one of florida's draft picks were on defense. The same was true the year those two mentioned went out (Brian Poole was even an undrafted free agent and he hasn't been a non contributor in the league) I was specifically referencing how much NFL caliber defensive talent the teams that Collins had the pleasure to coach at florida had not that the school itself was always going to pull that level of talent.

As for Collins as a defensive minded head coach the jury is still very far out on that. I honestly think his adherence to the cult of Tempo on offense is slaughtering whatever defensive stylings he is best at calling. Or he is being way too hands off when he really needs to call the defense.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

You do realize Treon Harris, Austin Appleby, & Luke Del Rio were the QBs at UF when CGC was the DC and they never avg more than 24pt/gm either season he was there and they still won 10 & 9gms, respectively, handing UGA one of its most embarrassing lost of the decades. Cmon man!

Are you referring to the game where Bauta made his one and only start as ugas QB?

For the record, I agree with your assessment of CGC. Collins did some good work as DC at UF. Though he had plenty of defensive talent to work with, he was able to overcome UFs shortcomings on O.

The 2015 uga game, however, was as much to do with CMRs pick of QB as anything else.

 

[Ibeeballin]

As for CPJ's defenses I don't think anyone is going to say any of his coordinators did him any favors. Though in 2013 with Vad, Roof was basically the same at 22.2 PPG, in 2014 it was 25 ppg roughly. Both of these teams were teams where i'd say the CPJ offensive style helped keep our defensive numbers down. With 2014 being a turnover generator defense that helped as well.

For thought Florida's team defense ranking in 2013 and 2014 were 15th (in a 4-8 season!) and 19th respectively so yes Muschamp also being a defensive minded coach to a fault pretty much stacked those teams with defensive talent that was right there for Collins to come in and do something with, Muschamp also upset georgia in 2014 running all over them for 428 yards. Florida was admittedly a defensively stacked team when McElwain took over and brought collins in And collins to his credit took what he had, and did well with it.

As for DB's in the NFL. Yeah that part is impressive, gave me hope that we'd be seeing some of that DB whisperer. Can you honestly say you've seen evidence of that here? This year maybe its a covid anomaly who knows.

Some more fun stats.

Temple under Matt Rhule
2015 17th in total defense. 20 PPG
2016 11th In total Defense 18 PPG

Temple under Geoff Collins.
2017 58th Total Defense 25.3 PPG (Saw on Average 70.1 Snaps)
2018 66th Total Defense 27.1 PPG (Saw on average 79.2 Snaps)

So I think after diving into these stats and with your stats Ibe I am willing to concede that maybe Collins the Defensive Coordinator controlling only that aspect of the game and hyper focused on that and recruiting is one of the best defensive coordinators out there but Collins didn't recruit Keanu Neal, or Vernon Hargreaves. They were recruited by Will muschamp. And were juniors when collins came in and took over. So yeah I think having two probowl dbs does make the job a hell of a lot easier, then in 2016 well there was a reason all but one of florida's draft picks were on defense. The same was true the year those two mentioned went out (Brian Poole was even an undrafted free agent and he hasn't been a non contributor in the league) I was specifically referencing how much NFL caliber defensive talent the teams that Collins had the pleasure to coach at florida had not that the school itself was always going to pull that level of talent.

As for Collins as a defensive minded head coach the jury is still very far out on that. I honestly think his adherence to the cult of Tempo on offense is slaughtering whatever defensive stylings he is best at calling. Or he is being way too hands off when he really needs to call the defense.

You’re still digging.

So it was the coordinators who did him no favors? Lol this is gold!


Ima let you do the work:

How many starters returned from that Rhule’s 10 win team and on that defense? Who was drafted? I’ve repeated this too many times for us to have the same debate 3+ years later.

Do this same exercise with CPJ too. Let me know what happened when you lose a lot talent to the league or solid depth

2009 vs. 2010
2014 vs. 2015

Again, this is a bad argument

 

[Ibeeballin]

Are you referring to the game where Bauta made his one and only start as ugas QB?

For the record, I agree with your assessment of CGC. Collins did some good work as DC at UF. Though he had plenty of defensive talent to work with, he was able to overcome UFs shortcomings on O.

The 2015 uga game, however, was as much to do with CMRs pick of QB as anything else.

It’s not as if UF had Tebow. Eason was the guy in 16 with similar results

 

[Ibeeballin]

In today’s episodes, we will hear about how Brent Key is not a good OL coach