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Cops

Discussion in 'The Swarm Lounge' started by Whiskey_Clear, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. Milwaukee

    Milwaukee Helluva Engineer

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    I hope that pos is dead already.
     
  2. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Banned

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    No he got a plea deal. Life without parole.
     
  3. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Banned

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    Terrible officer safety tactics utilized in that encounter. Very sad.
     
  4. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Banned

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    Came across this one randomly. It’s a good example of some of the problems we are having in society today with regards to law enforcement. And there is some criticism from me for both sides on this one.

    First. The driver’s attitude was prettt nasty from jump. But she’s just a dumb citizen and entitled to be stupid and nasty. I think she had one valid argument in this stop though.

    Imo the officer should always start their interaction with a driver by first identifying themselves and then advising the driver for the reason for the stop. The officer’s department apparently does not train to that and I think that’s a big fail that creates more problems than it resolves.

    Now to the officer. I get that it can be frustrating to deal with confrontational drivers and false accusations of profiling. However....the officer is the professional here and should behave accordingly. He said some things that were more likely to escalate the driver than de-escalate her. Just handle your business and be done. There is no point in telling someone repeatedly to calm down if they are simply pissed and mouthing off...that ain’t a crime so don’t feed into the pissing match needlessly.

    I don’t know what the state laws are where this department is. But.....in Georgia signing the ticket isn’t an admission of guilt it simply acknowledges receipt of the citation and obligation to appear for court. Refusing to sign necessitates the driver to post cash bond and is reasonable cause to believe the driver won’t show for court. In other words...refuse to sign and you will be fitted for metal bracelets roadside and immediately be given free transport to jail to post bond. Choose wisely people and fight the citation in court rather than roadside.

    I don’t think she was profiled at all in this stop but the department should change their training on traffic stops imo. Being clear and upfront initially can help dispel confusion and suspicion imo. Too often law enforcement seems to operate under the assumption drivers know exactly what they are being stopped for and imo the opposite should be presumed.
     
  5. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Banned

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    This one doesn’t look good.
     
  6. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Banned

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  7. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Banned

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    Just to counter some of the continuing anti-cop bias out there.
     
  8. Technut1990

    Technut1990 Helluva Engineer

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    After all the stuff the folks walking up to the perp show one thing, The public has absolutely no idea whats going on when the see the police running around like crazy people. They just walked up to this guy - im sure to try to help him, butt Jezz. This also points out how "witnesses" can tell different versions of the same event. Those two would say that the police just shot him as he ran away --- guarantee it
     
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  9. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Banned

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  10. Technut1990

    Technut1990 Helluva Engineer

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    Wow, wonder how they know there isn't a weapon involved ? I would say that most domestic related police shootings result from an unexpected brandishing of a weapon that wasn't involved until it was brandished. Id like to see the liability insurance the city is going to pay -- no way to protect the civilian responders and in my experience med teams wait until police secure the scene before they come into a domestic matter of any type
     
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  11. Peacone36

    Peacone36 ACCBasketballReport.com Contributing Writer

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    Being a citizen doesnt entitle you to be dumb and nasty.
     
  12. Technut1990

    Technut1990 Helluva Engineer

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    But it does allow you to be presumptuous and bias without being judged, again Odd given the BLM concerns of Racial bias in policing. Trust me now that cops wear body cams there are 10 million videoed incidents of the public's being race bias toward cops.

    About 20 years ago they dispatched two officers to a domestic in my jurisdiction. about 3 mins after the dispatch the dispatcher came over the radio and notified the Sgt that the caller was requesting Black officers, the Sgt. called the complainant and after talking to her cancelled the call b/c she refused to allow white officers in her home --- again she hadn't even met the responding officers, she simply didn't want them in her home if they were white, but I guess thats Ok
     
  13. Peacone36

    Peacone36 ACCBasketballReport.com Contributing Writer

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    I dont know what your post has to do with mine, but no, thats not ok either.
     
  14. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Banned

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    That was one of my first thoughts. I can almost guarantee you the Fire Chief in Denver was not consulted about using his paramedics in this manner. I can think of no jurisdiction in Ga. that would consider such a plan....maybe City of Atlanta but I bet there would be significant pushback there also.

    People don’t understand how dangerous a mentally deranged person is. Ditto for those suffering other mental health disorders.

    It’s far safer and imo smarter to have police secure such scenes initially and let paramedics and any other assets do their thing once that is accomplished.

    Denver may forge new ground and find a good solution. They might also get responders killed needlessly in the pursuit of social justice / disdain for criminal justice.
     
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  15. Technut1990

    Technut1990 Helluva Engineer

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    You said being a citizen doesn’t entitle you to be dumb and nasty.

    She is dumb and nasty because of her assumption that she was only stopped b/c the cop is racist. That’s a bias she has against white cops. A bias that white cops often run into from the minority community. I’m agreeing with you that it’s not right but I’m saying society certainly doesn’t account for it in citizen police interactions. The only bias that it seems is ever considered is that of cops.
     
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  16. RonJohn

    RonJohn Helluva Engineer

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    It is an interesting idea. As you said in a later post, they might forge new ground or they might get people hurt. Something missing in that article is a description of exactly what types of calls these people might respond to instead of police. In documentation from the Eugene, OR system is says:
    The "dispute resolution" is labeled elsewhere in the documentation as "Conflict Resolution and Mediation". I don't think I would want such people being the first responders to that. I also don't think I would want them being to first responders to public intoxication.

    Assisting homeless people is something that many people and organizations do separate from government. Assisting a disoriented person wouldn't necessarily need a police officer. Talking with families about substance abuse and mental illness issues is something that social workers do already. In a case of depression it might be better if a medic and social worker are first to respond. I think the biggest issue is how it is set up for the 911 operator to understand if the situation is dangerous or not. Is it a disoriented person who doesn't know where they are, or is it a disoriented person who is a danger. A 911 caller could be afraid of a disoriented person who is suffering from Alzeimer's or unafraid of a mentally deranged person. How can the operator understand the situation when the description of the situation varies wildly with different callers?
     
  17. Whiskey_Clear

    Whiskey_Clear Banned

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    Some of your questions point to the danger of such situations actually. You are in the right track with dispute resolution calls. Those absolutely are some of the more potentially dangerous imo.

    As for disoriented. Why are they disoriented? How likely is it for a 911 call taker to be able to ascertain from a phone call if such a scene is safe enough to not need police presence? It’s not realistic to think they could.

    Depression? See above. There are crisis helplines to help some of these individuals over the phone. Those hotlines fairly frequently refer such calls to the local police anytime they think the subject might be inclined to hurt themselves, others, or have suicidal ideations.
     
  18. RonJohn

    RonJohn Helluva Engineer

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    I don't think we really disagree. The big question is whether the 911 operator can accurately determine what the situation actually is. I also think from phone descriptions it would be extremely difficult to do. As I stated, someone might describe a person with Alzeimer's dementia as scary while a different person would describe a hallucinating Schizophrenic as a little confused. My statement about depression was more that a counselor being the first to show up might work out better for that person than an authority person showing up first. A policeman showing up first might push that person deeper into a shell that he/she doesn't want to come out of. It wasn't an intent to say that in an unknown situation it is better to send a counselor. I am pretty confident that if a counselor and medic arrived to a disoriented person and found him to be a Schizophrenic yelling at street signs that they would call back and have police sent to the scene instead of attempting to intervene. Or at least the very well should.

    911 operators already make similar determinations to only send EMTs in situations like an epileptic seizure or heart attack.(From the situations I have seen, fire trucks usually show up too) This appears to be pushing the 911 operators decisions into more risky areas. I didn't see any description in this article, or in the Eugene, OR documentation on how the operators make such determinations. I don't understand how they could. I would be interested in seeing documentation on what that process is.
     
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  19. Technut1990

    Technut1990 Helluva Engineer

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    This Memphis thing is a perfect example of citizen bias. Federal Marshalls hunt down a felon with multiple charges, he rams them several ties with his car then gets out of the car brandishing a handgun and after he is shot the community hits the streets hell bent on the fact that that federal agents are racist murderers. They are very bias and it dosen't matter one bit to the story being told by the press. They can share their personal thoughts on republicans, Trump and white men but they don't dare point out that the protesters are bias themselves.
     
  20. GT_EE78

    GT_EE78 Helluva Engineer

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